Israel - Palestine discussion thread

I just watched a hand desperately reaching out of burning rubble in Deir al-Balah near al-Aqsa Hospital after Israel bombed the displaced people in tents there, about 45 minutes ago.

Doesn't seem like bystanders were able to rescue people. Apparently at least one little girl burned alive.

Edit: the hand belonged to a patient hooked to an IV while burning in a hospital bed.

I don't ever want to hear about Israel having the most moral army or attempting avoid civilian casualties ever again.
 
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Sounds like he needs to go back over some of his book's verses:

rac.org

Save One Life, Save the Entire World (Including Yourself)

rac.org rac.org

Or is one life a bit more valuable than another.

EDIT:



If true, they are incompetent (I really hope they aren't complicit). This whole region is a mess and it's spilling out onto streets worldwide.

EDIT 2:

Are we in danger of a redo of the Antebellum South

The myth of Arab-Jewish comity and parity in Islamic lands found more advocates beginning in the mid-1950s, as scholars and activists in the West embraced what Lewis dubbed the “mystique of Third Worldism, ... a new variant of the old golden-age myth,” now relocated to formerly colonized lands. In the current paradigm, the cultures and belief-systems of the colonized were celebrated, with the now discredited Western powers held responsible for the societies’ conflicts and travails.[28] It was with the Suez War of 1956 that this intellectual model came increasingly to be applied to the Middle East, as Britain and France were widely seen as attempting to reassert their control in the region. Although Israel joined the fray in large part to quell the persistent attacks on its population by fedayeen in the Sinai, it was now cast as the junior partner in the imperialist drive. The discourse became even more politicized, more strident, in the 1960s, with Zionism now starring as the last imperialist villain of the drama, when over the course of the Six Day War against the fourteen nations of the Arab League, Israel captured East Jerusalem, the West Bank, the Golan Heights, the Gaza strip, and the Sinai. Now scholars and commentators, especially those on the left, redoubled their efforts to portray the interfaith—and interracial—utopia that had allegedly prevailed in Arab lands before the imperialist invasions and the founding of the Jewish state, when a tolerant Islam ensured civil rights, security, equality and religious freedom to Jewish minorities. Ignoring centuries of travelers’ accounts and investigative reports, they turned reality on its head.

When the Jewish essayist Albert Memmi, who was born in Tunisia in 1920 and educated in Algeria, moved to France, he was startled to come “face-to-face with a fable that was very popular among the left-wingers in Paris ... that the Jews had always lived in perfect harmony with the Arabs.” He was “almost congratulated on having been born in one of those countries where race discrimination and xenophobia were unknown.” Memmi understood this was “nonsense"—"countertruth"—and that “it is time to denounce this fraud.” Memmi was also distressed that Jules Isaac, the French Jewish intellectual whom he generally admired, had identified “true antisemitism” only as “the result of Christianity.” Memmi explained, “I am sorry to say that by making antisemitism a Christian creation, Isaac minimized the tragedy of the Jews in the Arab countries and helped to create a false understanding of the question.”[29]
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HenrySwanson
Sounds like he needs to go back over some of his book's verses:

rac.org

Save One Life, Save the Entire World (Including Yourself)

rac.org rac.org

Or is one life a bit more valuable than another.

EDIT:



If true, they are incompetent (I really hope they aren't complicit). This whole region is a mess and it's spilling out onto streets worldwide.

EDIT 2:

Are we in danger of a redo of the Antebellum South
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Are we back to taking the IDF at face value again?


And citing the Middle East Forum as well, a conservative think tank set up to promote US interests, with close ties to Israel? Did the absolutist nature of that piece not give you the slightest pause for thought?
 
HenrySwanson
If true, they are incompetent
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Not the first time UN post being collateral after Israel attack on Hezbollah few meters away from their position(Grapes of Wrath ended after similar event).

Hezbollah is, basically, army with close to 100% support from Shia population in region. Last thing UN peacekeepers would do is somehow interfere with Hezbollah activity. We saw that in Srebrenica.
The myth of Arab-Jewish comity and parity in Islamic lands found more advocates beginning in the mid-1950s
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Speaking of who is commi bastard. 🤣 It was commi propaganda after Stalin/Israel relationships become tense. IRL, Islam was more tolerant than Christianity in Middle ages, but parity never being the thing. Jews always were second class people.
 
So "funny thing" i saw in the news.

Some Zionist rescue worker was whining that the drone that killed four IDF, hurt other people. And that targeting civilian targets is a big no no... when the targets is Israel only apparently.
 
Joey D
Hey look, the IDF managed to take over something of the enemy's without bombing a hospital, mowing down school children, or killing UN workers. So that's something, I guess.
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Maybe don’t store terrorist ammunition in those areas then…
 
That area is going to carry on and on and on as long as it is blinded by hate. There really is no point until they are both dragged into the 21st century. Arming Israel is not the way both for the future of the region and our security concerns.

What does everyone think will be the retaliation on Iran? I'm not expecting anything too drastic.
 
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HenrySwanson
That area is going to carry on and on and on as long as it is blinded by hate. There really is no point until they are both dragged into the 21st century. Arming Israel is not the way both for the future of the region and our security concerns.

What does everyone think will be the retaliation on Iran? I'm not expecting anything too drastic.
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My guess is an attempt to degrade Iran's military in some way. The other options, such as strikes on oil or civilian infrastructure have a lot of potential for negative consequences. The last thing Israel should want is to get Iranians to rally 'round the flag...which they will do even if they don't like their government...or to cause a global oil price spike. I'm guessing they will try to strike IRGC assets and radar/AA stations throughout the country. The Nuclear sites don't seem like realistic targets unless they have assets on the ground or want to spend hours and hours dropping conventional bombs at them.

But judging by the THAAD deployment, it will be serious enough to provoke retaliation.

The area will remain a violent cluster**** until Palestinians have their own country - I don't honestly see any other outcome unless Israel decides to commit full genocide. The relentless violence is perfect for those who use the idea of an endless conflict to achieve political power.
 
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MIE1992
My dad was an O-6 in the US Navy
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Lets say, I don't have anything against anyone in US Army aside from known criminals. But I also don't have any respect simply because someone was promoted or honorable discharged or have any regalias after serving in army that doing warcrimes for breakfast and capturing other countries for dinner.

Same way as I threat default Russian soldiers serving right now, especially considering non-volunatary recruitment practices since autumn 2022.

Ukrainians and Israeli are in different category, considering they defend their homeland from aggression.

No honour, no shame.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
My guess is an attempt to degrade Iran's military in some way. The other options, such as strikes on oil or civilian infrastructure have a lot of potential for negative consequences. The last thing Israel should want is to get Iranians to rally 'round the flag...which they will do even if they don't like their government...or to cause a global oil price spike. I'm guessing they will try to strike IRGC assets and radar/AA stations throughout the country. The Nuclear sites don't seem like realistic targets unless they have assets on the ground or want to spend hours and hours dropping conventional bombs at them.

But judging by the THAAD deployment, it will be serious enough to provoke retaliation.
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Makes sense
Eunos_Cosmo
The area will remain a violent cluster**** until Palestinians have their own country
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But where do the Israelis go?

 
Eunos_Cosmo
What do you mean? The Israelis aren't going anywhere...but they don't have to also occupy Palestinian territory.
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The video shows what a selection of Palestinians think of a two-state solution.

It's from a great channel that interviews Palestinians and Israelis about various topics.
 
HenrySwanson
The video shows what a selection of Palestinians think of a two-state solution.

It's from a great channel that interviews Palestinians and Israelis about various topics.
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You aren't going to find many Palestinians who don't think that Israel is occupying their land. That said, I think only the extreme right on either side would genuinely reject a 2-state deal if one was actually reached. The problem is that they are currently the ones in power on both sides...
 
Eunos_Cosmo
You aren't going to find many Palestinians who don't think that Israel is occupying their land. That said, I think only the extreme right on either side would genuinely reject a 2-state deal if one was actually reached. The problem is that they are currently the ones in power on both sides...
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So if a two-state deal is reached everyone interviewed in the video will magically change their mind, accept it and live in peace?

You can understand why I don't share your belief I hope.
 
HenrySwanson
So if a two-state deal is reached everyone interviewed in the video will magically change their mind, accept it and live in peace?

You can understand why I don't share your belief I hope.
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Do you propose...anything? All the options are bad - some are less bad. You seem to argue purely from a cynical, contrarian perspective.




The more I think about the US allowing the THAAD system to be deployed, the more it concerns me. The chain of events that led to its deployment must have been somewhere along these lines:

Israel really really wants to do a big attack on Iran.
Iranian missiles pose some level of legitimate threat to Israel based on the attack on 10/1.
Israel might "naturally" temper their response due to that threat, but doesn't want to.
By deploying THAAD, the US is tacitly or overtly acknowledging that Israel wants to escalate the situation and enabling Israel by providing theoretical protection from the consequences of escalation.

Biden...don't get us into a war....
 
Eunos_Cosmo
Do you propose...anything? All the options are bad - some are less bad. You seem to argue purely from a cynical, contrarian perspective.
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I am being realistic.

Looking further, I think I will read about this some more:

One-state solution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Eunos_Cosmo
The more I think about the US allowing the THAAD system to be deployed, the more it concerns me. The chain of events that led to its deployment must have been somewhere along these lines:

Israel really really wants to do a big attack on Iran.
Iranian missiles pose some level of legitimate threat to Israel based on the attack on 10/1.
Israel might "naturally" temper their response due to that threat, but doesn't want to.
By deploying THAAD, the US is tacitly or overtly acknowledging that Israel wants to escalate the situation and enabling Israel by providing theoretical protection from the consequences of escalation.

Biden...don't get us into a war....
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It's not just Biden; Zionists seem to have the West under a spell.

Israel might "naturally" temper their response due to that threat, but doesn't want to.
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This is what needs to happen - the key word being "naturally". Israel has been allowed to become the dominant player in the Mid East when it had no right to be. To restore order, the region should be left alone to evolve without us favouring one of these religious idiots over another.
 
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inCloud
Lets say, I don't have anything against anyone in US Army aside from known criminals. But I also don't have any respect simply because someone was promoted or honorable discharged or have any regalias after serving in army that doing warcrimes for breakfast and capturing other countries for dinner.

Same way as I threat default Russian soldiers serving right now, especially considering non-volunatary recruitment practices since autumn 2022.

Ukrainians and Israeli are in different category, considering they defend their homeland from aggression.

No honour, no shame.
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Still suggesting that Honorably discharged veterans are war criminals I see?
Again, you Putin Puppet, you can F right off

How dare you.
Maybe look in the mirror.

Again, FU you Commie Bastard
 
Boston77
Still suggesting that Honorably discharged veterans are war criminals I see?
Again, you Putin Puppet, you can F right off

How dare you.
Maybe look in the mirror.

Again, FU you Commie Bastard
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I gave him a few chances but I'm learning to ignore him now.
 
HenrySwanson
What does everyone think will be the retaliation on Iran? I'm not expecting anything too drastic.
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It depends on what intel Israel have on Iran nuclear program. If latest earthquake was nuclear test, then they really want to obliterate few nuclear objects. Kharg island could be another bug target.
Boston77
Still suggesting that Honorably discharged veterans are war criminals I see
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Seriously, visit doctor, you either hallucinating or have some reading disorder. I said that your army is criminal organisation that covers up war criminals, systematically. Same for RUAF, AUF or IDF. Does it make every member criminal by itself? No, according to international law(even if some forum members constantly saying it does in Russian invasion topic). But responsibility for being in criminal organisation, at least for those who doing it voluntary still here.
Boston77
How dare you
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PG_2023.06.27_US-image_00-01.png

Let's say, I am not alone in my criticism of US foreign policy.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
The more I think about the US allowing the THAAD system to be deployed, the more it concerns me. The chain of events that led to its deployment must have been somewhere along these lines:

Israel really really wants to do a big attack on Iran.
Iranian missiles pose some level of legitimate threat to Israel based on the attack on 10/1.
Israel might "naturally" temper their response due to that threat, but doesn't want to.
By deploying THAAD, the US is tacitly or overtly acknowledging that Israel wants to escalate the situation and enabling Israel by providing theoretical protection from the consequences of escalation.

Biden...don't get us into a war....
Click to expand...
The deployment of the system itself isn't the worrying part, it's the troops being sent to operate it. US troops on the ground, directly in the line of fire - that's a potentially very dangerous situation. Both for the consequences if they get hit, and also as you say the confidence/security it might give Israel in responding to Iran.
 

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