- 1,325
- In the gravel trap
- RDAardvark
Hey Beavis, he said rubber.
ORCA General Discussion
- Thread starter BrandonW77
- 790 comments
- 30,084 views
dsgerbc
Premium
- 2,577
- dsgerbc
Aren't you getting dumped with snow tomorrow? Or is it just gonna rain?
Marcus, I too can use a recommendation. I need a summer tire that's awesome in the rain (I usually went for top rain tire for ST classes) with a twist: it should be as quiet as possible while slipping. You can hear OEM tires chirping in even mild street corners not taken too hard from several blocks away (LSD is very agressive), and I'm sure cops that hear it will zero in on me first
Marcus, I too can use a recommendation. I need a summer tire that's awesome in the rain (I usually went for top rain tire for ST classes) with a twist: it should be as quiet as possible while slipping. You can hear OEM tires chirping in even mild street corners not taken too hard from several blocks away (LSD is very agressive), and I'm sure cops that hear it will zero in on me first
- 2,182
- Ocho Rios
- Marcus__Garvey
For the BRZ? Do you still run the stock wheel size?
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
I ain't afraid of no snow!! These tires do "ok" in wet, figured this would be a good test for them. 
dsgerbc
Premium
- 2,577
- dsgerbc
Nah, it's probably gonna be 18x8 wheel in the 225/40 size. Basically, if you know quiet tires in the 'max perf summer' or 'extr perf summer' categories on tirerack - please chime in.
I had Contis EC DW last summer, and tried them for a bit on the BRZ. They squealed less than OEM rubber, but still too much.
- 2,182
- Ocho Rios
- Marcus__Garvey
Ah, so we're donkin' it.
Conti DW is a nice daily driver tyre. Faster than almost all of the current crop of ST 'tyres du jour' in serious standing water, but of course it gives up a lot in the dry because of the large void area. I know, sounds silly, but just for hahas here's the testing; http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/splish-splash/
That brings to me another point. In the rain, two factors matter. As far as pure mechanical grip on a wet surface is concerned, tyre compound is all the matters. Only when there is considerable standing water does the tread design, most importantly void area, come into play. When I ran R-Compounds exclusively, I never swapped to rains in the wet. 'Slicks' are faster until you're dealing with standing water(puddles). So while tyres such as the DW, Brandon's Nitto, and other 'rain' type tyres are better for clearing water and doing 130mph in the rain on a highway(in Mexico); a stickier compound and otherwise 'sportier' tyre is going to still have higher peak grip. It will just hydroplane earlier.
Anywhooooo, the droid you're looking for is the Dunlop Direzza ZII. Pretty much any of the ST tyres are going to be considerably quieter(squeal-wise) when comparing to a normal passenger car tyre(which I consider the DW to be, albeit a good one). Except for the new BFG Rival, which I understand howls like every BFG ever made. Most of them will, however, communicate more rolling noise because the sidewalls are stiffer which contributes to increased NVH. Tyre squeal is a byproduct of the compound failing to scrub on the surface and instead chatter(much like an old wiper blade does). Any of these stickies are going to have considerably less tread squeal, because the compound will scrub onto the surface(as they are soft) rather than chatter across it(as a harder tyre would). I am assuming that when you refer to quietness, it is regarding the scrub/squeal rather than in car rolling noise. If I am wrong about your needs, then you need some nice soft sidewall Turanzas hahaha.
Here's your beast; http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...=24WR8Z2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes
While it has less void area than the previous Star Spec, it is still considerably faster in the wet.
Here is the data from a Dunlop ZI to ZII test on TireRack's autocross test course.
ZI Star Spec Dry 29.56 Wet 35.00
ZII Dry 29.08 Wet 33.84
Faster all around than the previous, but most noteworthy is the wet surface time gap.
The other tyres in the mix this year are
Hankook RS-3 - Likes a lot of heat, thus poor in the rain.
Yokahama AD08 - Likes heat, but great in standing water(lots of void), wears like iron, but is Yoka $$$
Kumho XS - Soft Sidewalls, needs a lot of heat, not great in the rain, older design.
And the new Bridgestone - I have no data on it yet, as it is currently unavailable. One thing I can guarantee, is it will be Bridgestone $$$.
Now, I have TONS of test data on most of these tyres. The information I provided here is a summary and simplification of information obtained from such data. If you would like the raw data, let me know.
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dsgerbc
Premium
- 2,577
- dsgerbc
Thanks, Marcus. I don't care too much about having a lot of dry grip. My DD tires are for minimizing chances of disaster in the worst (but still likely) conditions. Which during summer means standing water.
I'll look into ZIIs. My concern is that EPS-category tires are too much grip in the dry for my car. I'm not even sure I'd be able to launch on those, more likely my clutch will slip.
I do enjoy slipping the rear once in a while, and I truly enjoyed winter driving in a BRZ. Winter tires I had (again, minimizing consequences of the worst) have little grip in the dry and are whisper-quiet while slipping. Lots of fun at safe speeds. So I'd prefer MPS tire over EPS.
What do you know about Michelin Super Sports?
Yeah, that's why I got DWs few years ago. Sold'em with my previous car though.
I'll look into ZIIs. My concern is that EPS-category tires are too much grip in the dry for my car. I'm not even sure I'd be able to launch on those, more likely my clutch will slip.
I do enjoy slipping the rear once in a while, and I truly enjoyed winter driving in a BRZ. Winter tires I had (again, minimizing consequences of the worst) have little grip in the dry and are whisper-quiet while slipping. Lots of fun at safe speeds. So I'd prefer MPS tire over EPS.
What do you know about Michelin Super Sports?
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- 2,182
- Ocho Rios
- Marcus__Garvey
The Michelin PSS is a great tire. It is funny that you would mention it, as I would consider it the Conti DW's twin. Nearly identical performance everywhere, with exception to the reduction in longitudinal grip. The Conti has more longitudinal grip(as do most Conti tyres), but the PSS doesn't wallow as much at the limit because of the better shoulder design over the Conti. Both the Conti and the PSS will tolerate suprisingly wide temperatures and conditions, and are probably two of the best daily driver tyres ever made. In the dry, they both will give up over a second per minute on an autoslolam course, but that is not what they are designed for. Neither of these are going to be great in anything more than a dusting of snow. I don't have much experience hooning around on the PSS, but I would expect the auditory sensations to be much the same as the Conti.
If you want a real quiet breakaway, buy Hoosiers.
Here's a run on Dunlops in an FRS(not me); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arNWgWaZlQE
If you want a real quiet breakaway, buy Hoosiers.
Here's a run on Dunlops in an FRS(not me); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arNWgWaZlQE
dsgerbc
Premium
- 2,577
- dsgerbc
Tirerack seems to think they are a bit better than DW in the wet.
Heh, if it was the only thing I wanted - I would've staying on my winter tires for the summer. Low grip and real quiet while slipping
Unfortunately they are dreadful in the wet.
Anyway, thanks for info.
- 2,182
- Ocho Rios
- Marcus__Garvey
That's because they are selling them at a considerably greater price.
Being serious, though, the Michelin is a great street tyre. I'd run them on a daily, for sure. Probably wear like iron in the typical Michelin fashion. Most street tires age out before they wear out, regardless.
In fact, I'll likely be competing on Michelins this season, as long as they make the April 30 deadline. Mine will be a little cheaper, however, as they rub off the 'Michelin' from the sidewall before I pick 'em up. Hahah
- 2,182
- Ocho Rios
- Marcus__Garvey
BFG Rival, but it's a bit off from what you're looking for.
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
We got about 6"......yeah, they're not real good on snow. Almost felt like I was driving a two-wheel-drive car, couldn't really get going from a stop and steering input resulted in very little action. They're not terrible, if I behave myself they do ok but hard to get traction and very unpredictable when they lose traction. I did keep the Dunlop all-seasons I so I can toss them back on next winter, I don't think we'll have many more snowfalls this season.
They felt good on the dry but they didn't really put enough air in them so they kinda feel mushy. I'll pump them up a bit and see how they feel then. I did notice they have a lot of bite mid-turn, right when I expect it to start to understeer they suddenly grip and turn in real tight. 👍
- 1,906
- Michigan
- Mudd
You guys discussing snow traction with your cars amuses me. I run 31x10.50 Cooper Discoverer STT's on my Wrangler, and I'm not afraid to admit that I get slightly aroused when I hear that major snowstorms are approaching. 
Edit for reference:
Edit for reference:
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- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
You guys discussing snow traction with your cars amuses me. I run 31x10.50 Cooper Discoverer STT's on my Wrangler, and I'm not afraid to admit that I get slightly aroused when I hear that major snowstorms are approaching.
Oh, I do too!!!! I just put my new summer tires on a little early and got to drive them in 6" of snow today. My all-seasons had no problem getting around in this stuff. I love the
looks I get from guys in big trucks when they see my little blue sports car plowing through the deep stuff. : 
- 1,300
- Indiana
- Naptown25rs
For the F1 fans or fantasy sports fans in the group...
Brandon and myself are going to take part in a fantasy F1 league this season... This is the first time either of us have done anything like this, but it sounds like fun and would be a way for us to add a little extra competition and rivalry to the group.
It doesn't cost anything to join, so if you're interested, go to the following website, sign up and register your fantasy team. Once we get folks registered, we can all join a "mini league" which allows us to compete directly with each other in addition the the rest of the world.
Additional info and details can be found on the site linked below or you can contact one of us with any questions.
Hope to see you all join!
Fantasy F1 League
Brandon and myself are going to take part in a fantasy F1 league this season... This is the first time either of us have done anything like this, but it sounds like fun and would be a way for us to add a little extra competition and rivalry to the group.
It doesn't cost anything to join, so if you're interested, go to the following website, sign up and register your fantasy team. Once we get folks registered, we can all join a "mini league" which allows us to compete directly with each other in addition the the rest of the world.
Additional info and details can be found on the site linked below or you can contact one of us with any questions.
Hope to see you all join!
Fantasy F1 League
- 1,325
- In the gravel trap
- RDAardvark
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
LOL!!! Bastor Maldanado......hilarious!
- 1,300
- Indiana
- Naptown25rs
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
I died when I read MARUSSIA Rolling Chicane F1 Team...
And Williams is powered by a Clio engine.
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
- 2,182
- Ocho Rios
- Marcus__Garvey
I tried out this >1milhp Audi as provided by Owens.
The first thing I noticed is that the AI spins the car in the pits trying to exit. At idle it just rockets off, and requires heavy braking just to maintain a low speed, and the background appears to break up abit. Glitchy almost. Once you get hold of it and have it pointing straight though it is quite fast. After picking up a couple hundred mph it tends to just hop along, like an antelope, gaining speed with each bounce along the ground. At around 480mph all of the sounds go away, and the background seems to stabilise a bit. I had it up to around 93xmph before it wouldn't gain anymore, and then I turned SRF on and it hopped its way up to 94xmph.
Shortly thereafter, I saw a gentleman with a VW bus that had it's tyres extended far outside of the body, doing 500+MPH. Silly stuff.
The first thing I noticed is that the AI spins the car in the pits trying to exit. At idle it just rockets off, and requires heavy braking just to maintain a low speed, and the background appears to break up abit. Glitchy almost. Once you get hold of it and have it pointing straight though it is quite fast. After picking up a couple hundred mph it tends to just hop along, like an antelope, gaining speed with each bounce along the ground. At around 480mph all of the sounds go away, and the background seems to stabilise a bit. I had it up to around 93xmph before it wouldn't gain anymore, and then I turned SRF on and it hopped its way up to 94xmph.
Shortly thereafter, I saw a gentleman with a VW bus that had it's tyres extended far outside of the body, doing 500+MPH. Silly stuff.
- 7,938
- LMSCorvetteGT2's Mom's House
- GTP_LancerEvo7
The hybrids that aren't just 'add a gazillion HP and call it a day' are a load of fun to drive.
- 1,325
- In the gravel trap
- RDAardvark
The big question here is: Was there a sonic boom at around 768 mph? If not, I fear PD really cannot claim that GT5 is that accurate.
- 1,325
- In the gravel trap
- RDAardvark
My mate's new toy.
- 2,182
- Ocho Rios
- Marcus__Garvey
Nice colour. A big front bar, Konis, and some tyres make those cars feel rather nice.
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
- 2,182
- Ocho Rios
- Marcus__Garvey
Advanced apologies for the massive post.
I suppose this is as appropriate as anywhere, so I'll dig this up for a few shots of the Vintage Festival I took over the weekend. It was rainy, and I was busy most of the weekend working on the MG and drinking so everything is taken poorly with a cellular phone rather than a camera. I did not run as I have nothing VSCCA eligible. Some of these have odd angles, as it was very foggy most of the weekend and the lighting overexposed a lot of the shots. I do have higher quality shots of many of these cars from years past anyway, as most are annual attendees. I took a few hundred photos as I usually do, but here are a few of the unique items.
The MG a friend of mine runs.
Had to adjust the valves, as this was the first weekend out on the new head.
My apologies for the low quality as my hands were covered in oil from adjusting, and I was contorted under the tire shelf in the trailer doing this. I snapped it to show that these cars, while vintage, have utilised modern technologies underneath in recent years.
Some of you will like these.
The real deal
Its counterpart
And it's injected, 50s style
This is an Elva, detailing a typical rear suspension layout of the time.
Pretty Colour(too bad the light sucks)
This is one of the more unique cars that appears annually. Aston Martin with a Zagato body.
Friend and fellow racer Cliff ranting at the crowd about all of the fingerprints on the car haha
Fellow racer Ken's Corolla(has 79k miles, and he also has his 1990 Championship car, a 1985 Celica that has now racked up a whopping 19k miles). That's my racecar on the left. I think it's the only picture I took of the car all weekend.
A clear roof Messerschmitt 3 wheeler.
Not my bag, but I figure some of you might enjoy it.
Same here.
This I do like.
Still slow.
A unique bird.
Chevy powered Cooper.
The wings were solidly mounted to the knuckles(uprights).
A little flathead fueler.
Falcon Trans-Am Racer. Did very well this weekend on fresh R6s.
More Trans-Am
You won't see more of these in one place anywhere. Any guesses what they are?
Then it dumped on us, so everything from here on is soaked. This car is valued at around USD1.2M. It is a Shelby Toyota 2000GT, one of less than 300 worldwide and 62 imported to the US. It was competing and ran well all weekend.
This car has the same fuel injection pictured above.
Almost a Cobra.
One of my father's friend's racers. It takes a lot of years to amass the wealth where you can race the crazy stuff and just not care. This car gets run hard. Anyone tell me what it is?
All business.
I suppose this is as appropriate as anywhere, so I'll dig this up for a few shots of the Vintage Festival I took over the weekend. It was rainy, and I was busy most of the weekend working on the MG and drinking so everything is taken poorly with a cellular phone rather than a camera. I did not run as I have nothing VSCCA eligible. Some of these have odd angles, as it was very foggy most of the weekend and the lighting overexposed a lot of the shots. I do have higher quality shots of many of these cars from years past anyway, as most are annual attendees. I took a few hundred photos as I usually do, but here are a few of the unique items.
The MG a friend of mine runs.
Had to adjust the valves, as this was the first weekend out on the new head.
My apologies for the low quality as my hands were covered in oil from adjusting, and I was contorted under the tire shelf in the trailer doing this. I snapped it to show that these cars, while vintage, have utilised modern technologies underneath in recent years.
Some of you will like these.
The real deal
Its counterpart
And it's injected, 50s style
This is an Elva, detailing a typical rear suspension layout of the time.
Pretty Colour(too bad the light sucks)
This is one of the more unique cars that appears annually. Aston Martin with a Zagato body.
Friend and fellow racer Cliff ranting at the crowd about all of the fingerprints on the car haha
Fellow racer Ken's Corolla(has 79k miles, and he also has his 1990 Championship car, a 1985 Celica that has now racked up a whopping 19k miles). That's my racecar on the left. I think it's the only picture I took of the car all weekend.
A clear roof Messerschmitt 3 wheeler.
Not my bag, but I figure some of you might enjoy it.
Same here.
This I do like.
Still slow.
A unique bird.
Chevy powered Cooper.
The wings were solidly mounted to the knuckles(uprights).
A little flathead fueler.
Falcon Trans-Am Racer. Did very well this weekend on fresh R6s.
More Trans-Am
You won't see more of these in one place anywhere. Any guesses what they are?
Then it dumped on us, so everything from here on is soaked. This car is valued at around USD1.2M. It is a Shelby Toyota 2000GT, one of less than 300 worldwide and 62 imported to the US. It was competing and ran well all weekend.
This car has the same fuel injection pictured above.
Almost a Cobra.
One of my father's friend's racers. It takes a lot of years to amass the wealth where you can race the crazy stuff and just not care. This car gets run hard. Anyone tell me what it is?
All business.
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