Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread - Out August 28th, 2020 on XB1/PS4/PC
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No, you had it right in terms of the limitation on a totally custom grid, and allegedly also the limit on custom (Forza-style?) liveries in PCARS2 for consoles, according to Ian.
I dabble in programming and game design.
That is nice to hear
I hope we will see more custom grids option i racing games on next gen consoles since there will be more memory on new consoles. And to be honest. I don't need grids bigger than 32 cars or something like that.
This is an interesting video. Go to 11m30s and you see one of the biggest graphical problems of PC2 the white track lines and parts of the track being 'jaggy' are still a problem in PC3 not even the new 'motion' hides it.
Interesting in the video he says of the handling changes "in this game the back end always wants to slide it feels like its a constant fight on acceleration it starts to get frustrating"
Some other interesting info Xbox will not have HDR support at launch. So no HDR or private lobbies on launch feels like they are releasing it unfinished
Interesting in the video he says of the handling changes "in this game the back end always wants to slide it feels like its a constant fight on acceleration it starts to get frustrating"
Some other interesting info Xbox will not have HDR support at launch. So no HDR or private lobbies on launch feels like they are releasing it unfinished
MagpieRacer
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I feel like they are pressured from Codemasters. When you think about it it makes a lot of sense, they announced the game only 2 months before release, a lot of things are missing, and the devs themselves feel like they are not satisfied with the end product..... this game could've been perfect if it has been given the time and love they did to pc1.
If aliasing is one of the biggest graphical problems that goes to show you have a good-looking game.
In truth, I'd rate PCARS2's strange speckled colors in the sky, occasional flickering shadows, or unrealistically bright cockpit illumination from headlights behind you as worse than some piddly aliasing. I can't relate to why aliasing matters so much. I prefer clean pixels over the smeared vaseline or claymation/plastic look resulting from anti-aliasing.
If devs are going to fruitlessly try to hide the fact that an image that is obviously made out of pixels is made out of pixels, just do it in a way that I can scarcely notice the blur, please.
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If aliasing is one of the biggest graphical problems that goes to show you have a good-looking game.
I saw you mention AA a few times and I couldn’t understand why you don’t like it. I get it now. Currently most forms of AA (at least on consoles) use solutions that result in the blurry look, which I also personally don’t like either and prefer just pure MSAA. Maybe that will change to supersampling approach with the next gen, but if they will target 4k as a base resolution that may not be necessary anyway.
Chikane_GTR
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That guy really doesn't come off as a nice person. 
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That guy really doesn't come off a nice person.
Don't forget that is a young guy put in that position because of family affiliations rather than professional ability.
It is what it is.
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If aliasing is one of the biggest graphical problems that goes to show you have a good-looking game.
In truth, I'd rate PCARS2's strange speckled colors in the sky, occasional flickering shadows, or unrealistically bright cockpit illumination from headlights behind you as worse than some piddly aliasing. I can't relate to why aliasing matters so much. I prefer clean pixels over the smeared vaseline or claymation/plastic look resulting from anti-aliasing.
If devs are going to fruitlessly try to hide the fact that an image that is obviously made out of pixels is made out of pixels, just do it in a way that I can scarcely notice the blur, please.
My personal PC2 favorite graphical "feature" are the giant square pits of shadow in the middle of the track at night. Sometimes it's just one or two here and there, sometimes you see them all over the place.
MagpieRacer
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Its been talked about a lot and Codemasters haven't had any input. It doesn't make any sense because even if they wanted to have input, the timescale wouldn't work anyway, they acquired them in November 2019, game was announced in May/June, get Christmas and New Year out the way, plus the start of a panedmic and your saying in 3 months Codemasters can derail an entire game thats been in development for 3+ years? Nah.
The devs have already talked about the changes they've made, and how early they were made as they are deep rooted into how the game has been built and will play. Tyre wear, pit stops, various physics changes, all done early in development, years before Codemasters aquiring them was even a vague possibility.
Too many people trying to justify SMS' choices by blaming Codemaster's. I bet Codemasters are as surprised as anyone by the direction being as its almost a competitor for their own franchise in style and not the hardcore racing sim that they were probably hoping for too.
It also can't be likened to the Evolution Studios thing, Onrush was developed and released entirely under Codemasters ownership and it was a massive flop. PC3 is almost a freebie for them as it was coming regardless, that's a saving grace for SMS.
Mark my Words, if and when it comes, PC4 will be a vastly different beast to this and Nathan Bell sure as hell won't be involved with it.
I believe Magpie is correct on Codemasters involvement.
1. This game is still published by Namco/Bandai.
2. The game as it is coming out, it will be very similar to Grid, creating a sort of overlapping which surely does not make Codies happy.
3. All productions developed this year have suffered from the Covid-19 situation, in many ways. Look at how ACC on console has been launched, and is poorly supported now.
I am not fully buying the features removal as early development decisions.
My humble theory is that, despite of what SMS keeps saying (and honestly I don't believe anymore a word of what they say), this game really gave them some troubles during the development, and it prolonged for much longer than initially expected.
Few months ago they reached a turning point where they realized that they could continue going on developing the improved full sim game (but it would have taken ages and they would have released the game AFTER the next gen consoles launch), OR they could simplify (literally, cut) many aspects of the game, and have it release BEFORE the next gen console launch, to maximize the sales.
And avoid releasing a old gen game in the next gen era.
Infact they are rushing so much, to get the end of August deadline, that even some basic features (as HDR implementation for Xbox version, or private lobbies) will be added later.
And they already candidly said that, confirming that development of this game was far from being well planned.
1. This game is still published by Namco/Bandai.
2. The game as it is coming out, it will be very similar to Grid, creating a sort of overlapping which surely does not make Codies happy.
3. All productions developed this year have suffered from the Covid-19 situation, in many ways. Look at how ACC on console has been launched, and is poorly supported now.
I am not fully buying the features removal as early development decisions.
My humble theory is that, despite of what SMS keeps saying (and honestly I don't believe anymore a word of what they say), this game really gave them some troubles during the development, and it prolonged for much longer than initially expected.
Few months ago they reached a turning point where they realized that they could continue going on developing the improved full sim game (but it would have taken ages and they would have released the game AFTER the next gen consoles launch), OR they could simplify (literally, cut) many aspects of the game, and have it release BEFORE the next gen console launch, to maximize the sales.
And avoid releasing a old gen game in the next gen era.
Infact they are rushing so much, to get the end of August deadline, that even some basic features (as HDR implementation for Xbox version, or private lobbies) will be added later.
And they already candidly said that, confirming that development of this game was far from being well planned.
MagpieRacer
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There's no reason for them to not be truthful about the decision being made early on certain things. The way the game has been designed supports this. Every track with a pit lane for example will have had to have extra modelling done to block them off, and the type temp lock and wear removal etc, its more than just, lets cut these features to launch the game. The get the game they have now, these decisions would have to have been made early as they are integral to the underlying physics and structure of the entire game. Menu structures, the way you launch into practice, tyre compounds. It definitely hasn't been decided in the last few months.
Where corners could have been cut by them in recent months is physical content like circuits and cars, graphical shortcuts and lack of next gen support. As you mentioned as well, private lobbies and other bits.
HDR is a weird one because I'm sure PC2 has that so surely should already be baked into the engine but meh. Hopefully it won't look to drastically different, feel I've been spoiled by the vast array of HDR games.
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I don't think there was any change in direction. In December 2018 SMS said it would be a spiritual successor to Shift.
https://www.gtplanet.net/project-cars-3-will-be-a-spiritual-successor-to-shift/
They also said it would retain all the sim goodness and this is what many of us misinterpreted. Shift didn't have tyre wear, fuel use, pistops, qualifying. It had XP and car upgrades. I don't think these things were removed late in PC3 development, but very early on. As for development being protracted, the game was still only on paper in Jan 2019 so development has only taken just over a year and a half. PC2 development was more than two years.
https://wccftech.com/project-cars-3-pre-production-more-fun/
Noted on the previous statements, but ''paper stage'' development and ''coded'' development are always part of ''game development''.
PC2 have been released on September 2017.
Since then, if took 14/15 months of ''paper stage'' development, leaving then 18 months of ''coded'' development (and with the results that we are all seeing now), it means something went wrong (really wrong) in the planning stage.
Scaff
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Oh I do hope so.
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Why so sure about Nathan's Bell involvement? @MagpieRacer
I only hope that next SMS game will get back to PCars 2 routes. Yesterday I've made classic leMans race... Damn i hope historic content will return in full glory on next gens. If not i will miss some of the best simracing expirience.
I only hope that next SMS game will get back to PCars 2 routes. Yesterday I've made classic leMans race... Damn i hope historic content will return in full glory on next gens. If not i will miss some of the best simracing expirience.
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Scaff
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His dad owned the company and he seems to spend as much time arguing and belittling the target base as he does engaging positively with it, so while it may be an assumption, it's really not that wild.
MagpieRacer
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Just a feeling, Codemasters, for all their faults, have always had good community engagement, Nathan Bell is the opposite of that and seems to go against everything Codemasters would normally stand for in the community. Theres no definite of course but after this I'd be amazed if they allowed him to keep interacting like this.
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I do wonder how much of the resources were divided between working on PC3 and the new Fast and Furious game as well.
Not sure how large their team is but imagined them being quite small?
I said it the other day but I really feel like they were originally working on Project Cars Go for mobile and at some point decided to incorporate many of those fundamental design choices into what is Project Cars 3.
I have to agree with those defending Codemasters on this. Seriously doubt they had any involvement at all in how the game was shaped and probably was already far along before they brought SMS. Do get the feeling maybe this game was rushed out quite quickly as well, maybe to fulfil any prior commitments with Bandi Namco?
Not sure how large their team is but imagined them being quite small?
I said it the other day but I really feel like they were originally working on Project Cars Go for mobile and at some point decided to incorporate many of those fundamental design choices into what is Project Cars 3.
I have to agree with those defending Codemasters on this. Seriously doubt they had any involvement at all in how the game was shaped and probably was already far along before they brought SMS. Do get the feeling maybe this game was rushed out quite quickly as well, maybe to fulfil any prior commitments with Bandi Namco?
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It could do well on console certainly. Ease of driving with a controller and releasing when GTS and Forza are almost 3 years old and replacements several months away, are two key factors whether PC3 had changed direction or not. On PC I'm not so sure. GRID bombed. NFS Heat did better but PC2 still has a higher player count on Steam. It will be interesting to see.
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