Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread - Out August 28th, 2020 on XB1/PS4/PC
- Thread starter jake2013guy
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The Problem is the new poultry direction they’ve taken has alienated the vegetarian fan base out there.
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- tankbuster621
- Tankbuster621
Well, I'm choosing to ignore any marketing fluff and any games that have come before or comparing it to other titles.
To be honest all of that is completely irrelevant. The only important question is 'will I enjoy this?'
For me, the answer is yes, and I want to be able to enjoy the excitement of the upcoming game without being accused of 'creating an echo chamber' or 'shutting down criticism' etc.
At the end of the day 'will I enjoy this?' is the only important question about this game, only we as individuals can answer that question.
If the answer to that question is 'no' then move on, it's pretty simple really.
I don't understand why people are so affronted when they are told that. The product is what it is if you are flat out uninterested in it, then the respectful thing to do is to say 'okay, hopefully, next time you will be interested'.
For those that aren't interested, why ruin the excitement for anyone else, it is just needlessly cynical.
Also as the precedent has been set: Chicken Pie is better than Apple Pie, I mean that in the literal sense btw.
To be honest all of that is completely irrelevant. The only important question is 'will I enjoy this?'
For me, the answer is yes, and I want to be able to enjoy the excitement of the upcoming game without being accused of 'creating an echo chamber' or 'shutting down criticism' etc.
At the end of the day 'will I enjoy this?' is the only important question about this game, only we as individuals can answer that question.
If the answer to that question is 'no' then move on, it's pretty simple really.
I don't understand why people are so affronted when they are told that. The product is what it is if you are flat out uninterested in it, then the respectful thing to do is to say 'okay, hopefully, next time you will be interested'.
For those that aren't interested, why ruin the excitement for anyone else, it is just needlessly cynical.
Also as the precedent has been set: Chicken Pie is better than Apple Pie, I mean that in the literal sense btw.
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Well, I’m not fussed on F1, I prefer MotoGP, but I still like to keep an eye on the goings on over there.
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- Player_7421
- Player 7421
I for one cannot stand the changes they've made to PC3. Taking out pit stops etc. However, look at what happened with Star Wars Battlefront 2 like @Scaff mentioned. The game was almost barebones at launch, some awful decisions ruined the game's launch and we didn't have much content. The game and Devs got a lot of backlash for it and rightly so imo. Then we got loads of updates for it, the devs added a lot of things into the game, took away microtransactions & loot boxes because the people wanted rid of it, now it's the best EA game (tied with Battlefield 1) of this generation IMO. Plenty of content, and changes to keep me happy and many others.
With SMS / PC3 getting a lot of backlash, hopefully changes will be made to it with updates. Adding in pit stops, Tyre / fuel wear, more real world tracks (maybe). Similar to the route Battlefront 2 went, as mentioned above. Not gonna lie, PC3 does look fun and the graphics look great. I Like the fact we can now customize cars. Car customization + a career mode sounds pretty good. I will definitely buy it at some point.
With SMS / PC3 getting a lot of backlash, hopefully changes will be made to it with updates. Adding in pit stops, Tyre / fuel wear, more real world tracks (maybe). Similar to the route Battlefront 2 went, as mentioned above. Not gonna lie, PC3 does look fun and the graphics look great. I Like the fact we can now customize cars. Car customization + a career mode sounds pretty good. I will definitely buy it at some point.
So let me get this straight. You're allowed to discuss how excited you are about this great new direction that SMS have taken, but others aren't allowed to talk about how pissed off they are at the hard 180 SMS have pulled in terms of a racing and motorsport sim? (Paraphrasing, obviously.)
For what it's worth, personally I don't really care about the "positive" thread (I know it's been renamed since, but we all know the one I mean) over on the official forum. I don't see it as much different to the "hype" thread here, with the exception of the enforcement aspect. Personally I wouldn't go into either thread to complain about the game - all else apart that's offtopic for those types of thread. However, whatever the intention, those types of thread invariably do end up as echo chambers, because you just end up with a bunch of people all agreeing with each other about how great it's all going to be.
FWIW 2 - if I were to start a pCARS3 anti-hype thread with no positivity allowed, that would also end up creating an echo chamber, where you'd just end up with a bunch of people all agreeing with each other about what a bunch of bastards SMS are etc etc...
There's a fair few people that are upset/annoyed with the change of direction SMS have chosen. It's compounded by deceptive initial marketing ("all the sim....") and a misleading (at best) name. If those two things had been handled differently - if they had just been up front about what type of game they were offering and gone with the original name - while I personally still wouldn't be buying, that decision wouldn't be accompanied by a side order of frustration and annoyance.
And I'm sorry, but Apple Pie > Chicken Pie every time. It's just true
Edit, oh, I was fully expecting the minor swears to get *** out
- 103
- United Kingdom
- tankbuster621
- Tankbuster621
So let me get this straight. You're allowed to discuss how excited you are about this great new direction that SMS have taken, but others aren't allowed to talk about how pissed off they are at the hard 180 SMS have pulled in terms of a racing and motorsport sim? (Paraphrasing, obviously.)
For what it's worth, personally I don't really care about the "positive" thread (I know it's been renamed since, but we all know the one I mean) over on the official forum. I don't see it as much different to the "hype" thread here, with the exception of the enforcement aspect. Personally I wouldn't go into either thread to complain about the game - all else apart that's offtopic for those types of thread. However, whatever the intention, those types of thread invariably do end up as echo chambers, because you just end up with a bunch of people all agreeing with each other about how great it's all going to be.
FWIW 2 - if I were to start a pCARS3 anti-hype thread with no positivity allowed, that would also end up creating an echo chamber, where you'd just end up with a bunch of people all agreeing with each other about what a bunch of bastards SMS are etc etc...
There's a fair few people that are upset/annoyed with the change of direction SMS have chosen. It's compounded by deceptive initial marketing ("all the sim....") and a misleading (at best) name. If those two things had been handled differently - if they had just been up front about what type of game they were offering and gone with the original name - while I personally still wouldn't be buying, that decision wouldn't be accompanied by a side order of frustration and annoyance.
And I'm sorry, but Apple Pie > Chicken Pie every time. It's just true
Edit, oh, I was fully expecting the minor swears to get *** out
There is no reason to be 'pissed off' because SMS made a game you don't like. Those developers have spent years on this product and you think that because you don't like it that justifies the endless vitriol the developers have received? Many of the comments have been ungrateful, aggressive and often insulting. From where I'm sitting, it looks a lot like you are suggesting that behaviour is justified. For the record, we have absolutely no desire to create an 'echo chamber' we just want a conversation without those kinds of comments because at the end of the day they make the experience unpleasant for everyone involved.
On that theme, every single one of us sees the same people making the same points about pitstops and saying 'it's arcade' etc etc every single time we log on to the forums, or discord or whatever else. If you think we are in an echo chamber because we sometimes post in a 'constructive only' then you are being somewhat naive, the vast majority of posters in that thread read and post in countless of threads and whatnot on a regular basis which means we do read the criticism and engage with it regularly so I don't know how we would end up in an 'echo chamber' from that.
Sure people are frustrated at the change in direction, I can easily see why especially for console players as this means there is now only one 'hardcore sim' option available and that is unfortunate. But sometimes developers don't make the game we want them to. There's no point being upset about that, it's a fact of life. Not every game will be what we want. Trust me, I very much know that as I have had similar disappointments from games in the past (as I outline here) so I really do sympathise with those who feel let down by this new direction but the emotional knee jerk reactions do not help anyone, and probably will not persuade SMS to go back to the traditional sim. After all, with all of the aggressive, insulting and ungrateful responses SMS has received from a pretty specific subsection of the racing genre, I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to distance themselves from the hardcore sim market altogether. Remember what Ian said about flight simulators, the fanbase got so toxic the developers no longer wanted to be part of it.
Me, I just want to have a conversation about the game itself and not about the game it is not even trying to be.
Edit: Also if you're ever in Whitby visit Humble Pie & Mash and you'll change your mind on chicken pie, it is divine
ngl I am kinda more invested in the pie debate atm
I haven't seen endless vitriol, I have seen a lot of unhappy people making their feelings known. That in itself doesn't constitute vitriol.
That's not to say it hasn't been out there. I just haven't seen it, perhaps because personally, since it became clear where the game was heading I have mostly tuned out from the official forum. And no, for the record, I don't condone insults, personal attacks etc (although why "ungrateful" is relevant puzzles me - what are people supposed to be grateful for?). That stuff has no place in a civilised discussion.
With that out of the way, can I make a point that I haven't seen mentioned yet (though again, I haven't been totally keeping up with this). There are a large group of people who have been invested in the whole Project CARS project for a long time (in many cases literally, financially, invested). Those who were in with pC1 of course did well out of it. I wasn't in from day one, so I'm not one of those people. However I did buy in to WMD2, and would like to think I made a contribution. That means I feel like I've put a bit of myself into the franchise. That doesn't mean I feel that SMS necessarily owe me anything beyond what I got from pCARS2 (and for the record, I consider the money spent on that WMD2 membership probably the single best bit of money I've spent on gaming in my life).
Why am I saying all this? I guess to try and make the point that, rightly or wrongly, I feel more invested in pCARS as a franchise than I have with any other series. That makes the disappointment in the change of direction that much stronger, and it also feels slightly wierd based on some of the conversations and passion for the motorsport side of things that I saw from SMS within the WMD process.
Meh, anyway, I'm rambling. Genuinely, I hope the game is everything you want it to be, and I hope it's a success for SMS - if only so they can come back in the future and make another, great, full on motorsport sim.
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- Bloodytears1666
Not only they are arcade lovers, but also animals killers, and food takers from a poor minority. Shame on you, new Project Cars 3 fan base!
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Are pit stops and tire wear things that can even be added in an update? Seems like the whole game is based on them not being there, so I don’t know if that’s possible or not. It would change the physics and everything behind it.
- 1,007
- Québec
UDP is User Datagram Protocol.
You can read about shared memory and UDP in Project CARS here: http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?30903-HowTo-Shared-Memory-(API)-App
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- PJTierney
User Datagram Protocol
Essentially, it allows players to pull data out of the game and feed it into various things, like telemetry apps, custom dashboards, even TV graphics packages for esports.
Given how the game seems to have been designed around no tyre/fuel wear or pitstops, you probably won't get those changed. Core pillars of a game's design don't get "patched in", they're considered/decided way before release.
Track on the other-hand, depends on what they've already planned. Usually by the time a game is announced all of the launch and post-launch content is already settled on, and the teams spend that time making and testing said content. To give an example, I knew about the DiRT Rally 2.0 Colin McRae expansion the day I joined the company, and that was almost a year before release.
- 3,464
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Chikane_GTR
Premium
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- Bic44
@Scaff I apologize for calling you out personally. I shouldn't have and am not going to make an excuse for it. I regretted it right away, but it was out there and I wasn't going to delete it and pretend it didn't happen.
That said, I still don't agree with you. You asking me how many times a person can complain is certainly subjective. Are they just saying the same thing over and over? Are they abusive? On the discord channel, they've certainly been mocking and condescending at times when talking to Nathan Bell. I just think criticisms should be said in forms other than 'when did you decide to use magic tires?', saying it's basically NFS and the like. And then repeating the same thing over and over even AFTER you've gotten an answer. It's just annoying. But....it has been getting a bit better as the game approaches and people realize that their life isn't going to end if it doesn't have all the features they'd like. In a nutshell, I appreciate criticism when people use common sense and respect.
As for Battlefront, that game was a disaster at launch, not necessarily because the game didn't have all the features they wanted, but more because of the microtransactions which were almost like a lottery, IIRC. That's a different thing than not including a few features some hardcore players need in their sim, while adding in things new to the franchise. Which, some of us prefer to those hardcore features.
Also, I want pie after reading all the comments
That said, I still don't agree with you. You asking me how many times a person can complain is certainly subjective. Are they just saying the same thing over and over? Are they abusive? On the discord channel, they've certainly been mocking and condescending at times when talking to Nathan Bell. I just think criticisms should be said in forms other than 'when did you decide to use magic tires?', saying it's basically NFS and the like. And then repeating the same thing over and over even AFTER you've gotten an answer. It's just annoying. But....it has been getting a bit better as the game approaches and people realize that their life isn't going to end if it doesn't have all the features they'd like. In a nutshell, I appreciate criticism when people use common sense and respect.
As for Battlefront, that game was a disaster at launch, not necessarily because the game didn't have all the features they wanted, but more because of the microtransactions which were almost like a lottery, IIRC. That's a different thing than not including a few features some hardcore players need in their sim, while adding in things new to the franchise. Which, some of us prefer to those hardcore features.
Also, I want pie after reading all the comments
@Benny44 - since you appear to have been keeping an eye on the Discord, has there ever been an answer as to why tyre wear/fuel use/pitstops weren't kept as options, even if hidden away? This still baffles me and I haven't yet seen an answer from an SMS representative (I've seen plenty of guesses as to why but nothing from the horses mouth).
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- Morgoth_666
<--- Proud to be [staying] the 5%
Morgoth beat me to it, but that just adds further irony to Ian Bell's "We are the 5%" comment from back in the day....
Edit to add - really, the majority ran 5 laps tops? That's.... well, I don't get it. I'm no endurance racing purist, but a 10 lap race would be a minimum for me.
- 1,007
- Québec
This is where my question comes from, I've seen so many guesses turned into "someone said" then morph into "I'm sure I heard..." but no direct quotes from SMS. It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, the game will be what it will be, but I remain puzzled and curious as to why no option.
Even if it is 5% - if the game sells a million uints on Steam, that's 50k that probably won't buy. At £45 a pop (I think?) for the game, and allowing for a 30% Steam cut, that's still about £1.5M gone. Would it cost that much to keep those sim options in?
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- Mexico
Don't discount the savings for not implementing such features (less programmers, less test time, etc.)
Those features were all already there in the previous game. There was also work involved in removing them.
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- Bic44
This is technically still second hand information since I have no affiliation with SMS, but I heard with my own ears Nathan Bell saying it was under 5% that used that. He furthered that by saying they can see the statistics, and it's really (keep in mind I'm paraphrasing) a miniscule amount that use pit stops specifically. And that it was a decision that was made very early on in production.
I can understand why it seems a lot are upset. I mean, it IS the hardcore fans who use those features. And it stands to reason the hardcore fans are going to be the most vocal. However I really don't think this game will be a flop. It is a very small portion who the game is alienating a bit. And, at least in my circle of real life friends, it is the only Pcars game they've been interested in at all. I bought 3 copies of Pcars 2 total. And they STILL barely played it. Keep in mind these are car guys who've loved past racing games, like all the old GT games and Forza. Guys that can rebuild an engine in their backyard. Just not hardcore motorsport fans. This is just my personal example, but I think it's at least somewhat telling. And these definitely aren't people who are going to be on a forum of any sort. They'll see the game, watch some reviews and possibly buy it if it looks good
Edit - when I say 'heard' Nathan, I mean that literally. It was one of the audio Q&As on discord
Thanks. That's the most direct quote I've heard so I'll take it
I still don't understand the reasoning given my (admittedly back-of-a-fag-packet) maths, but if that's the answer then so be it.Like everyone eles I don't know if it will be a flop, a hit or somewhere in between. Time will tell!
Edit - I do wonder if there will be something released describing Ian's "We are the 5%" comment as "unfortunate"....
I ran 10-15 minute races for the majority of my custom races. That could add up to only 5 laps on some circuit+car combos. I guess I can't do that anymore. 
20+ minutes is fairly long for randoms in public lobbies, too.
I always had tire wear and fuel consumption on, but only fuel consumption ever comes into play, really -- and I never emptied a full tank except for in the career mode. I wanted to use pitstops, mainly for quick dry-to-wet or wet-to-dry races, but I found it simpler to do dynamic weather with cars that didn't need to change tires. I shouldn't need to construct and save a pit strategy for a one-off, and I hated when it would start raining, I'd pit for wets, and I'd come back out still driving on slicks, trashing the race.
It reminds me of what I thought of the original "only 5% of players" controversy with Grid 2. I prefer cockpit view when it's appropriate, but I always used the chase cam in the first Grid (and Dirt 3) because of the disjointed and distracting steering animation in cockpit view! Of course almost no one will use a feature if it doesn't work out that well for players who want to use it!
20+ minutes is fairly long for randoms in public lobbies, too.I always had tire wear and fuel consumption on, but only fuel consumption ever comes into play, really -- and I never emptied a full tank except for in the career mode. I wanted to use pitstops, mainly for quick dry-to-wet or wet-to-dry races, but I found it simpler to do dynamic weather with cars that didn't need to change tires. I shouldn't need to construct and save a pit strategy for a one-off, and I hated when it would start raining, I'd pit for wets, and I'd come back out still driving on slicks, trashing the race.
It reminds me of what I thought of the original "only 5% of players" controversy with Grid 2. I prefer cockpit view when it's appropriate, but I always used the chase cam in the first Grid (and Dirt 3) because of the disjointed and distracting steering animation in cockpit view! Of course almost no one will use a feature if it doesn't work out that well for players who want to use it!
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