Should PD have let the modding slide? ... OP Updated.

[Teal]

Stop assuming everyone is hybriding to cheat.

They may not think they are cheating but they are. If you add 1 HP/PP to a car beyond the max the game allows, you are cheating. Swaps were not included in the game for some reason. Doing any swap at all is cheating.

 

[Ranman20]

They may not think they are cheating but they are. If you add 1 HP/PP to a car beyond the max the game allows, you are cheating. Swaps were not included in the game for some reason. Doing any swap at all is cheating.

Do you know what cheating is? Cheating is when someone tries to cheat to win. A cheat is usually a code to commonly add infinite lives,hp,def, etc. This is not cheating, its merely just overpowering somebody. Like say you had a fully tuned GTR at 800hp+ and somebody had a hacked GTR with 1,000hp, he is not cheating he just hacked the game and is overpowering you.

 

[Lock2Lock]

True, but there's one (at least in my eyes) big problem: I hate it if people start to stupidly mess around with the grip level of their cars.
CH rooms are limited for a reason. Not only because it's the best drift tire, it's mainly to get all cars down to about the same speeds.

It's a pain if some 🤬 bring out their super fast cars and then shoot you off track every time you try to do tandem/train drifting, simply because they can't slow down enough. Additionally, if they lead you've no chance to follow, not matter how fast you push your car (of course, I'm certainly aware how to drift slower and faster, but that's only possible in a certain range).

Now if someone slamms his cars, those cars would have much less grip than normal. In that case people should slightly raise the grip level so that they again match the speeds of normal cars. Or simply don't lower them to such crazy heights...
This is completely about the drifting scene, altering grip level for circuit racing is just contemptible.

Btw, didn't know that you're on GTP

Yeah true. Forgot about the grip multiplier. But honestly if people slam me in my room or in a friend's room they usually only get a couple warnings before they are kicked.
Same goes for random lobbies when so many complain about a person doing so.

In my opinion the grip multiplier isn't much bigger than a viper trying to tandem with a Supra or a RX-7

 

[GTWelsh]

my slammed r33 (rwd, etc) drifts so slowly I cannot use it really, if I knew how to simply increase the grip level SLIGHTLY, I would drift it forever !

 

[Lock2Lock]

my slammed r33 (rwd, etc) drifts so slowly I cannot use it really, if I knew how to simply increase the grip level SLIGHTLY, I would drift it forever !

I am currently working on one. The only thing I have done so far is simply convert it to RWD. When i get the tune finished (probably by next Monday) i can put it on shared. Also slamming cars for drifting really wouldn't help it. If you like the look of it that much though I can up the multiplier a bit if you want. Nothing drastic. Try five first then go from there

 

[Furinkazen]

Point about hacking. Its illegal, its not supposed to happen, and nothing people can say changes that fact.

 

[Ranman20]

Point about hacking. Its illegal, its not supposed to happen, and nothing people can say changes that fact.

That may be true but there are a lot of people who don't give a damn though. In honest opinion it makes some games fun and sometimes funny. Its just a game so yeah.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

Point about hacking. Its illegal, its not supposed to happen, and nothing people can say changes that fact.

I think the real question is do people care it's illegal and that they aren't supposed to be doing it? Apparently not.

 

[Furinkazen]

I think the real question is do people care it's illegal and that they aren't supposed to be doing it? Apparently not.

Proven by some people in this thread. 👍

 

[Teal]

Do you know what cheating is? Cheating is when someone tries to cheat to win. A cheat is usually a code to commonly add infinite lives,hp,def, etc. This is not cheating, its merely just overpowering somebody. Like say you had a fully tuned GTR at 800hp+ and somebody had a hacked GTR with 1,000hp, he is not cheating he just hacked the game and is overpowering you.

How is that not cheating. Using a code in a game for more lives. Bad example. That's in the programming of the game. Using the tortoise shell trick on level 3-3 of SMB isn't really cheating when it's done %100 in game. and withing the programming of the game.

Go to a track any track on race day. Try to enter a V-8 into 4 banger class. See how far you get. Sneak a turbo into NA class, and see how far the overpowering excuse gets you.

The record listed here for a GTR black is 8.907. When I am pulling an 8.5 ish. and I get blown away by a full 2 seconds. Someone's probably cheating.

pulling the overpowering card isn't going to work. Still cheating. Lance Armstrong was simply trying to "overpower" people and look what they did to him.

I really hope PD/Sony drop the ban hammer hard on these cheaters. Just to shut some of these smug ****** ******* up.

 

[Lock2Lock]

How is that not cheating. Using a code in a game for more lives. Bad example. That's in the programming of the game. Using the tortoise shell trick on level 3-3 of SMB isn't really cheating when it's done %100 in game. and withing the programming of the game.

Go to a track any track on race day. Try to enter a V-8 into 4 banger class. See how far you get. Sneak a turbo into NA class, and see how far the overpowering excuse gets you.

The record listed here for a GTR black is 8.907. When I am pulling an 8.5 ish. and I get blown away by a full 2 seconds. Someone's probably cheating.

pulling the overpowering card isn't going to work. Still cheating. Lance Armstrong was simply trying to "overpower" people and look what they did to him.

I don't even want to get back into the over dramatic sensitivity of the drag community. But i do get what you are saying. When it is obvious like that sure yeah it is cheating. But why acknowledge their times. Specially when no one can come close.

Far as someone proving their time in the drag community to be realistic have them make a video of them getting into the car by selecting the country and have them select the car that way. Most of the drag community has people who claim their time is legitimate and try to make sure they are not cheating. So just have them add that part to the video. I do understand your frustrations considering you are talking about drag racing. Just saying some measures to ensure they are a valid time

 

[C_Raccoon23]

They may not think they are cheating but they are. If you add 1 HP/PP to a car beyond the max the game allows, you are cheating. Swaps were not included in the game for some reason. Doing any swap at all is cheating.

My point is not everyone is going online to use hybrids. So how can one assume that all hybriding does is give people an unfair advantage? And really, I hope this doesn't come down to being worried about what people choose to do with their game offline, where it has no affect on others.

 

[Teal]

My point is not everyone is going online to use hybrids. So how can one assume that all hybriding does is give people an unfair advantage? And really, I hope this doesn't come down to being worried about what people choose to do with their game offline, where it has no affect on others.

Offline, I could care less what a person does with there game.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Offline, I could care less what a person does with there game.

So what about people using them online but not cheating with them? The whole point you are making about cheating I understand. But the being there and used without cheating I understand too.

 

[Furinkazen]

So what about people using them online but not cheating with them? The whole point you are making about cheating I understand. But the being there and used without cheating I understand too.

The actual car being created is cheating.

 

[Hei]

The actual car being created is cheating.

So creating a car, that I use to do a texas mile drag run, with a friend who is also doing it, to create realistic cars, is cheating. I never even begin a race.

You better recreate your definition of cheating.




Oh and whoever said that cheat codes aren't cheating because they are in game

 

[thelvynau]

So creating a car, that I use to do a texas mile drag run, with a friend who is also doing it, to create realistic cars, is cheating. I never even begin a race.

You better recreate your definition of cheating.

Oh and whoever said that cheat codes aren't cheating because they are in game

Of course its cheating the hybrids you used are they what came with the game? Or was it modified?

Since it was modified then your cheating the parameters of what the cars are supposed to be.

 

[Lock2Lock]

The actual car being created is cheating.

That's about as ludicrous as when someone told me by me using the clutch and H-Pattern shifter on my G27 us cheating in drag racing in GT5. Which the argument before was off the line someone could ride the clutch (aka rev match) so they wouldn't have so much wheel spin (which behaves differently than e- cheating by the way). But i understood that to a certain extent. But using the clutch doesn't mean it is a unfair advantage. If that is so let's just say the DS3 with auto clutch and push button shift is cheating in vice versa

I mean don't want to drag this out more than needed to find the true definition of cheating. But the making of the car isn't cheating it is how it is used

So creating a car, that I use to do a texas mile drag run, with a friend who is also doing it, to create realistic cars, is cheating. I never even begin a race.

You better recreate your definition of cheating.

Oh and whoever said that cheat codes aren't cheating because they are in game

I think some people are just looking at this the wrong way. And do not understand the definition of cheating.

 

[Hei]

Cheating is still cheating, even if it is in-game cheating. Hence the words, cheat codes.

You are trying to justify that something that has cheat in its name isn't cheating.

 

[thelvynau]

Cheat codes are cheats plain and simple just like the hybrids.

The hybrids used for realistics setups I guess that only falls under cheating parameters to change the car im now not sure if that can be classified as cheating in the traditional sense.

I am going to think on that.

 

[Teal]

So what about people using them online but not cheating with them? The whole point you are making about cheating I understand. But the being there and used without cheating I understand too.

You are creating a car that was never intended to be in the game. How is that NOT cheating.

Cheat codes are put in by the programmers. All done withing the programming of the game. They are intended to be used. PD didn't intended for motor/chassis swaps. That's cheating, in every use of it.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Cheat codes are cheats plain and simple just like the hybrids.

The hybrids used for realistics setups I guess that only falls under cheating parameters to change the car im now not sure if that can be classified as cheating in the traditional sense.

I am going to think on that.

You are creating a car that was never intended to be in the game. How is that NOT cheating.

Cheat codes are put in by the programmers. All done withing the programming of the game. They are intended to be used. PD didn't intended for motor/chassis swaps. That's cheating, in every use of it.

Look at it this way. My friend/team mate on a drift team had a Supra drag car. He sold the supra and kept the engine and the rest of the drive train. He is now putting that drive train in a S13. He said he plans to build it for a daily driver/drift car. He owns the same car in GT5 now (thanks to hybriding).

Is that a realistic mod? Yes
Is it cheating? No

Like it has been said before it depends if it is cheating/unfair advantage by how the car is used that determines that.
I guess it just depends on what part of the community you are coming from.


=========

You are creating a car that was never intended to be in the game. How is that NOT cheating.

Cheat codes are put in by the programmers. All done withing the programming of the game. They are intended to be used. PD didn't intended for motor/chassis swaps. That's cheating, in every use of it.

Once again to the added quote let me ask you this.

You are in a free run lobby. You are cruising in your moded car (remember no race no competitive anything). Is that cheating to you?

You are in a drift lobby with your moded car a comp or whatever and are able to follow and lead good no hitting anyone/having fun just enjoying the art of drifting. Is that cheating to you?

You are in a hybrid racing room with your moded car having fun racing against cars around the same speed/classification. Is that cheating to you?

 

[Hei]

Lets use steroids as an example. You can use them for personal use all you want, even with its known side effects, but it isn't cheating until you use them to get ahead in a paid sport.

 

[Furinkazen]

So creating a car, that I use to do a texas mile drag run, with a friend who is also doing it, to create realistic cars, is cheating. I never even begin a race.

You better recreate your definition of cheating.

Oh and whoever said that cheat codes aren't cheating because they are in game

Was that function to hybrid and create cars ever meant to be on GT5 through PD? No.

That's about as ludicrous as when someone told me by me using the clutch and H-Pattern shifter on my G27 us cheating in drag racing in GT5. Which the argument before was off the line someone could ride the clutch (aka rev match) so they wouldn't have so much wheel spin (which behaves differently than e- cheating by the way). But i understood that to a certain extent. But using the clutch doesn't mean it is a unfair advantage. If that is so let's just say the DS3 with auto clutch and push button shift is cheating in vice versa

I mean don't want to drag this out more than needed to find the true definition of cheating. But the making of the car isn't cheating it is how it is used


I think some people are just looking at this the wrong way. And do not understand the definition of cheating.

Using the clutch is hardly a fair comparison, thats up to you to sue as you have it available. Are hybrids meant to be available? No. If they were they would have been in before.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Lets use steroids as an example. You can use them for personal use all you want, even with its known side effects, but it isn't cheating until you use them to get ahead in a paid sport.

Yeah i meant to say that to the Lance Armstrong comment haha. But it is pretty self explaitory anyway.

Using the clutch is hardly a fair comparison, thats up to you to sue as you have it available. Are hybrids meant to be available? No. If they were they would have been in before.

Basically what i was getting at with all of my comments to him was his definition of "cheating" is used in such a vauge way it is pretty much wrong.

Besides the point of "were they ain't the game before the program.. No so it is cheating" discussion isn't the point at all. It really comes down to the point of how they are used

 

[nickg07]

Well not really. The cars are hacks and if you use them you are cheating. How's that sound?

Hacks are exactly that. Don't try to sugar coat it with euphemistic terms like hybridization.

 

[Furinkazen]

Yeah i meant to say that to the Lance Armstrong comment haha. But it is pretty self explaitory anyway.



Basically what i was getting at with all of my comments to him was his definition of "cheating" is used in such a vauge way it is pretty much wrong.

Besides the point of "were they ain't the game before the program.. No so it is cheating" discussion isn't the point at all. It really comes down to the point of how they are used

If somethings not in the program what gives you the right to violate ToS by adding it completed unauthorized?

If somethings not in the game its not in the game. Does not give you the right to edit. GT5 is not an open community editing simulations like most PC sims.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Well not really. The cars are hacks and if you use them you are cheating. How's that sound?

Hacks are exactly that. Don't try to sugar coat it with euphemistic terms like hybridization.

Not trying to sugar coat it.
The definition of cheating still stands. So the term hybriding still is valid. There's a difference between cheating and modding. Let's look at it this way. Cheating (in your definition) vs cheating to get a advantage. There's a valid difference.

If somethings not in the program what gives you the right to violate ToS by adding it completed unauthorized?

If somethings not in the game its not in the game. Does not give you the right to edit. GT5 is not an open community editing simulations like most PC sims.

Actually PC games ban moders who use it to a advantage. Didn't say I have a right to do it. I didn't want to get into that subject because that has been answered many times before.

The fact still stands on the difference between using it to a advantage vs just doing it not to. You get what I am saying now? Sum it up again. Some people are using hybrids to gain a unfair advantage (aka cheating). Some people are not using hybrids to gain a unfair advantage (not cheating).

 

[Johnnypenso]

I have been messing around with the hybrid software for a few days trying to find winning combinations. I'm not interested in 3500 HP/550PP cars, but more into matching chassis/body/motor/drivetrain combinations that appeal to me. I've found ways to improve every car but I have yet to find a way to improve a car beyond the best car at that level.

For example, let's say for the sake of argument the Lotus Elise 111R is the best street car at 500 PP on Autumn Ring Reverse, SM tires. I have yet to find a combination that's faster than that, although I can put together many more competitive combinations that come very close, without using the 111R chassis. Swapping motors in and out of the Elise chassis may find one slightly faster but I doubt by more than a tenth or two.

If you stay within the realistic HP ranges to avoid the PP going backwards with really high HP (happens when you start going way over 1000 on most cars), the PP system does adjust for every change you make. You can't drop a Camaro RM V8 with 500HP into an Elise and have it work out to 500 PP, it won't happen. Even the grip multiplier, which you can use to make your low grip cars drive like their higher grip counterparts, adds to PP. I've been able to shave a second or so off a stock chassis 69' Vette laptime with a motor swap and then another second using the grip multiplier, but at the expense of 50 hp. But it was already that far off the pace to begin with and now it's competitive, but not quite as fast as, the fastest non-hybrids in the game.

Can anyone show me a winning combination for circuit racing, that is faster than the fastest cars at given PP levels, with realistic HP numbers? A street car faster than an Elise at 500 PP without using the Elise chassis? A street car faster than the LFA at 550PP without using the LFA motor or chassis?

 

[Furinkazen]

Not trying to sugar coat it.
The definition of cheating still stands. So the term hybriding still is valid. There's a difference between cheating and modding. Let's look at it this way. Cheating (in your definition) vs cheating to get a advantage. There's a valid difference.

Still cheating... you said it yourself they are both cheating.

Actually PC games ban moders who use it to a advantage. Didn't say I have a right to do it. I didn't want to get into that subject because that has been answered many times before.

Do they? Lets have a look at NASCAR Racing 2003 Season, GTR2, Rfactor, WRC3, and likely Asseto Corsa and Project CARS for mods. Don't see any banning there. Indeed RFactor is a perfect example as it was meant as a cimmunity-driven sim.

The fact still stands on the difference between using it to a advantage vs just doing it not to. You get what I am saying now? Sum it up again. Some people are using hybrids to gain a unfair advantage (aka cheating). Some people are not using hybrids to gain a unfair advantage (not cheating).

But your not supposed to use hybrids in first place. They shouldn't even exist. If they did they would have been in the game when it was designed or such engine / chassis swap features would have been added by PD.

So all your points are really null and void.