Should PD have let the modding slide? ... OP Updated.

[1241Penguin]

1300 HP is easily reachable these days.

 

[KinLM]

1300 HP is easily reachable these days.

Yes, but it's far out if the reach of most people. That's quite a bit of money and tuning needed to reach it on a Honda or Subaru.

 

[fbccars924]

they make up to 1000hp per cylinder, so a V8 8x1000 = 8000hp= realism brah.
Usually a Chevy, Dodge or Ford Big Block

 

[Stavingo]

Yes, but it's far out if the reach of most people. That's quite a bit of money and tuning needed to reach it on a Honda or Subaru.

Just because it's out of reach money wise doesn't make it unrealistic.

 

[KinLM]

they make up to 1000hp per cylinder, so a V8 8x1000 = 8000hp= realism brah

Yeah. 1000 HP for about 4 seconds, and then require tons of maintenance after each run. That's really realistic on a road car.

 

[1241Penguin]

Yes, but it's far out if the reach of most people. That's quite a bit of money and tuning needed to reach it on a Honda or Subaru.

So? What's that got to do with realism?

 

[brianwong]

D1 cars run like 1000hp on 2JZ engines don't they?

 

[KinLM]

So? What's that got to do with realism?

The only cars Ive seen in the 1300+ range are heavily modded high end sports cars and full top of the line supercars.

There's that GT-R that makes 1500. And you have Koenigseggs and Veyrons that are all right up there. But 1300.. Personally that just seems a little too far for me personally.

There might be a few everyday Hondas that have been completely converted to harness that much power. So I guess it's realistic in a way.

But then you have things which aren't simulated like the massive turbo lag this would cause, the increased strain on the engine, etc.

So if GT simulated these things, I think I'd find it more realistic. But since it doesn't, the 1300 HP reached in the game still seems just beyond what we have today personally.

But you all seem to see it as perfectly realistic, which is fine. I can sorta agree, just maybe not 100%. But that's fine, if he wants to stuff 1300 in his car.

I was just saying that most realistic hybrids I've heard of have around 800-900 at the most.

 

[KinLM]

D1 cars run like 1000hp on 2JZ engines don't they?

First. Apologies for double posting.

Second, 1000 HP and 1300 HP is quite a difference. A 30% increase in fact. I find 1000 VERY realistic today. 1300 is just right on the line.

But in a few years, I'm sure that all the Ferraris will be harnessing this much.

 

[Stavingo]

D1 cars run like 1000hp on 2JZ engines don't they?

Yep, Daigo Saito ran that much in his old D1GP car, all those cars running within Formula Drift and various other drifting tours running within 700-1000hp

 

[Johnnypenso]

Arguing realism in hybrids is pointless. I can throw up a picture of a "car" that broke the sound barrier and it's realistic. When it comes to cars almost anything is possible no matter how outrageous. But I don't care if you show up with 1 Billion Hp in a car, so long as there is a way to filter out the extreme HP cars that break the PP system, I'm fine. I can do it with an HP check, problem solved. If you want to race those cars and you are the host, no problem, just leave off the HP limits.

There's no point in arguing whether you are "cheating" by braking into a game save. Point conceded, I'm cheating, so you are you if you've modded from gave same data. Whether I create something that you can make on the street easily from spare parts is irrelevant to that point as well. It's technically "cheating" point conceded.

So if almost any car is realistic and I'm technically cheating by using hybrid cars what's left to argue over? For me all that's left is whether hybriding provides a competitive advantage at the usual PP raciing levels is what's left. So far, no one that I've seen has been able to build a hybrid that fits into the usual PP racing levels, 450-600, that's any faster than the fastest cars pre-hybrid.

At this point it's only theoretical that cars can be built that will be better than the Elise's and NSX's at 500PP for example, without using those cars as your base. I believe I might be able to swap in a motor with a slightly better power curve and improve on those cars a tenth or two here or there and that's it. The reason those cars are the fastest at that PP level is that they are already the ideal combination out of hundreds of possibliities of power/weight/handling.

 

[1241Penguin]

The only cars Ive seen in the 1300+ range are heavily modded high end sports cars and full top of the line supercars.

There's that GT-R that makes 1500. And you have Koenigseggs and Veyrons that are all right up there. But 1300.. Personally that just seems a little too far for me personally.

There might be a few everyday Hondas that have been completely converted to harness that much power. So I guess it's realistic in a way.

Okay, good, so they exist. We have established that now.

But then you have things which aren't simulated like the massive turbo lag this would cause, the increased strain on the engine, etc.

So if GT simulated these things, I think I'd find it more realistic. But since it doesn't, the 1300 HP reached in the game still seems just beyond what we have today personally.

GT doesn't simulate the strain on engines regardless, so there really is no difference as far as I'm concerned.

But you all seem to see it as perfectly realistic, which is fine. I can sorta agree, just maybe not 100%. But that's fine, if he wants to stuff 1300 in his car.

I was just saying that most realistic hybrids I've heard of have around 800-900 at the most.

Define realistic.

 

[KinLM]

Okay, good, so they exist. We have established that now.

Meh, they sorta exist. I could say that the Thrust SSC is realistic and harness thousands of horsepower to my car if this is how you wanna go. But yes, it's on the inbounds side of possible today.

GT doesn't simulate the strain on engines regardless, so there really is no difference as far as I'm concerned.

There is a difference how I see it. Most cars would have fairly good reliability compared to a 1300 HP car. So by taking reliability away, you're helping out the poor reliability horsepower monsters more than the average horsepower reliable cars.

Define realistic.

I see things such as Veyrons, Ageras, Ultimate Aeros, and Venoms as realistic. They're made by companies and aren't just completely maxed out one-off tuned cars that somebody made in their shed.[/b][/color]

 

[1241Penguin]

Meh, they sorta exist. I could say that the Thrust SSC is realistic and harness thousands of horsepower to my car if this is how you wanna go. But yes, it's on the inbounds side of possible today.

You said 1300HP is unrealistic. The fact that it has been done (and outpowered) disproves your statement.

There is a difference how I see it. Most cars would have fairly good reliability compared to a 1300 HP car. So by taking reliability away, you're helping out the poor reliability horsepower monsters more than the average horsepower reliable cars.

Technically, you're right. However, I can't see the reliability of a maxed out Civic or an 800 HP GTR in GT5 (both tuned by conventional means) to be too good either. If you want to make the argument that highly modified engines are unreliable, it must extend to the cars tuned by methods PD gives you (i.e. stuff in the Tuning Shop), and not just at hybrids.

I see things such as Veyrons, Ageras, Ultimate Aeros, and Venoms as realistic. They're made by companies and aren't just completely maxed out one-off tuned cars that somebody made in their shed.

I don't see what difference it makes? If it can be done, it can be done.

 

[Exorcet]

There might be a few everyday Hondas that have been completely converted to harness that much power. So I guess it's realistic in a way.

Why are modded cars daily drivers tuned by no nothings in a random shed? Why can't they be the result of a bunch of bored engineers who work for company X with a free flow of money, materials, and experience?

 

[Stavingo]

Meh, they sorta exist. I could say that the Thrust SSC is realistic and harness thousands of horsepower to my car if this is how you wanna go. But yes, it's on the inbounds side of possible today.

Used absurd car in order to take point out of context, meh.

There is a difference how I see it. Most cars would have fairly good reliability compared to a 1300 HP car. So by taking reliability away, you're helping out the poor reliability horsepower monsters more than the average horsepower reliable cars.

Hence the features of breaking in with oil and engine replacement in GT Auto.

I see things such as Veyrons, Ageras, Ultimate Aeros, and Venoms as realistic. They're made by companies and aren't just completely maxed out one-off tuned cars that somebody made in their shed.[/b][/color]

So then what about tuning branches that are able to make huge HP out of cars like what Top Secret does?

 

[KinLM]

You said 1300HP is unrealistic. The fact that it has been done (and outpowered) disproves your statement.


I don't see what difference it makes? If it can be done, it can be done.

I guess we just have different views on what makes something realistic. You think that if it exists, it's realistic.

But for me, I for some reason see it all as possible. It's been done, so it's possible. But it's not realistic.

It's just a difference in opinion.

HOWEVER,

In a few years, the average HyperCar will be making 1300-1500 HP. Agera, Veyron SS, Venom, are ALL at 1200. Because of this, I see 1200 as being realistic, since it's been done on many cars by many companies, 1200 HP straight out of the factory.

1300 HP is right on the line. But thanks to progress, in a short while, I'm pretty confident that we'll see cars in the Geneva spotlight with far more than 1300.

 

[KinLM]

Why are modded cars daily drivers tuned by no nothings in a random shed? Why can't they be the result of a bunch of bored engineers who work for company X with a free flow of money, materials, and experience?

I have yet to see a company like this eclipse 1200 HP. In a year or two, that'll change. But as of right now, I don't know of a car which is like the scenario you suggested that has broken 1200.

 

[Stavingo]

But for me, I for some reason see it all as possible. It's been done, so it's possible. But it's not realistic.

So because it's been done but yet since these high HP cars are scarce makes it unrealistic?

 

[starshipenterz]

1600 not unrealistic by any means, a lot of 1,000+ R34s & Supras out there as well, i believe the Alpha Omega recorded almost 1800 at full boost.

 

[Nismo34]

So because it's been done but yet since these high HP cars are scarce makes it unrealistic?

Cars that actually exist in real life that are unrealistic. #Logic


Yes, I did just use a hashtag... Problem?

 

[KinLM]

Used absurd car in order to take point out of context, meh.

So a 1000+ car isn't absurd already? Come on.

Hence the features of breaking in with oil and engine replacement in GT Auto.

This doesn't replicate what we're talking about.

So then what about tuning branches that are able to make huge HP out of cars like what Top Secret does?

Top Secret makes a car with more than 1300 HP? Because anything at 1200 or less is what I consider realistic.

 

[KinLM]

Cars that actually exist in real life that are unrealistic. #Logic

We discussed this above.

 

[CodeRedR51]

1300 HP is right on the line. But thanks to progress, in a short while, I'm pretty confident that we'll see cars in the Geneva spotlight with far more than 1300.

You don't need that kind of power to have fun though. There comes a point where it's too much. I bet a car with half the power of a Venom could keep up with it on an average size track.

 

[Exorcet]

I have yet to see a company like this eclipse 1200 HP. In a year or two, that'll change. But as of right now, I don't know of a car which is like the scenario you suggested that has broken 1200.

So what, it's certainly do able. If anything Hennessey could take the engine form their Venom and stuff it into whatever. Whether or not it has been done isn't terrible important and it's not a very good basis for realism.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/16/maxximus-g-force-1600hp-ought-to-do-the-trick/

Here's the 1600 hp Ultima anyway.

 

[KinLM]

You don't need that kind of power to have fun though. There comes a point where it's too much. I bet a car with half the power of a Venom could keep up with it on an average size track.

Finally! +1.

 

[KinLM]

So what, it's certainly do able. If anything Hennessey could take the engine form their Venom and stuff it into whatever. Whether or not it has been done isn't terrible important and it's not a very good basis for realism.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/16/maxximus-g-force-1600hp-ought-to-do-the-trick/

Here's the 1600 hp Ultima anyway.

Yes! Thank you! This is what I've been trying to say for the last page! Finally somebody else who sees it the same way!

 

[Nismo34]

Finally! +1.

Hate to burst your bubble, but he's on about practicality, not realism like you're trying to argue (And not getting anywhere it would seem)


And the damn double posting again...

 

[1241Penguin]

But for me, I for some reason see it all as possible. It's been done, so it's possible. But it's not realistic.

I'm still struggling to understand your viewpoint.

How about this, in what circumstances would having 1300HP cars be realistic to you?

1300 HP is right on the line. But thanks to progress, in a short while, I'm pretty confident that we'll see cars in the Geneva spotlight with far more than 1300.

It's been mentioned before; there are already cars that have 1300HP. Incidentally, there are cars with over 1300HP.

 

[KinLM]

Hate to burst your bubble, but he's on about practicality, not realism like you're trying to argue (And not getting anywhere it would seem)

And the damn double posting again...

What I've been trying to say is that it isn't realistic because it's not very practical. It's what I meant from the start when I said it cost too much money and was out of reach of most.

Also, it's difficult for me to combine posts since I'm using the app. Apologies, you don't have to cuss about it.

I'm still struggling to understand your viewpoint.

How about this, in what circumstances would having 1300HP cars be realistic to you?

It's been mentioned before. There are already cars that have 1300HP. Incidentally, there are cars with over 1300HP.

When a HyperCar company builds it, I'll call it realistic. Until then, it's just mental tuners who want a monstrous car.