Should PD have let the modding slide? ... OP Updated.

[brianwong]

Well if PD is turning a blind eye to it...

 

[Voodoovaj]

Wonder if sales of the BR-Z have increased? Mine is all wheel drive and 550

 

[Gonales]

My 2 cents: I'm using a 2JZ Toyota Altezza. It feels awesome, it looks awesome, and it is my favorite car ingame at this point. It has around 500 hp at this point.

What, in the name of the lord, would be wrong with that?

Frankly, if PD bans me because I have it in my garage, I will accept it. I won't try getting on GT5 again, nor buy GT6. Don't they realise, that these hybrids are THE best thing that has happened to GT5 in the last year? People came back, to GT5 because of the extra customization possible to these cars.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Don't they realise, that these hybrids are THE best thing that has happened to GT5 in the last year? People came back, to GT5 because of the extra customization possible to these cars.

+1:tup:

 

[Lock2Lock]

My 2 cents: I'm using a 2JZ Toyota Altezza. It feels awesome, it looks awesome, and it is my favorite car ingame at this point. It has around 500 hp at this point.

What, in the name of the lord, would be wrong with that?

Frankly, if PD bans me because I have it in my garage, I will accept it. I won't try getting on GT5 again, nor buy GT6. Don't they realise, that these hybrids are THE best thing that has happened to GT5 in the last year? People came back, to GT5 because of the extra customization possible to these cars.

You are welcome really glad you like the car

 

[Griffith500]

I dropped a 22B lump into my GT86, otherwise unmodified. I love that the startup sound is transferred, and that the car is, at least in the game, thoroughly capable of dealing with that much more power (is it the Torsen diff, or is it just the game?).

Further, my S1 Elise has a K series in it, but not the one it came with.
I could put K20As in everything, but a K20 EG Civic with DC2R running gear is pretty sweet, probably my "ideal" Civic, if I could make it sound like a B series.
An LSx will go in pretty much anything, too.
Also, the peripheral ported, NA 20B RX7 is another favourite.
Or the California with a 458 engine (Ferrari so should make an "F8", although there is a phone with that name).
Or a MkI Golf with the 3.2 VR6 and drivetrain from the Audi A3 (has been done with Golf R32 parts, which are similar)
A Maserati Gran Turismo S with the right sound courtesy of the 8C engine (which is more or less the same anyway; as is the Ferrari unit...)
RB25 Zenki S14 Silvia.
BTR with RGT running gear.
Mini with fireblade engine.
etc. etc.

Not to mention the countless visual tweaks and mods, and the ease in getting everything just right (with a bit of research) without endless faffing in the game's cumbersome menus.


These are things that should be in the game, so people wouldn't have to "risk" contravening the TOS (what little they're worth) in order to get some extra enjoyment from it. Cheaters will be cheaters, but don't lump the rest of us in with them.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Regardless of the reasons it seems to put forth alot of aggression in people alot of it not needed.

Some people are, in fact, ruining the experience with poorly crafted hybrids. A well done mod is a sleeper.

 

[Tornado]

The BreezeFreeze with the IROC-Z engine is so stupidly awful, but amazingly entertaining to drive.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Cheaters will be cheaters, but don't lump the rest of us in with them.

But that's basically what this argument keeps circling back to; diving into the game to modify it beyond what PD intended (as well as what's available to those who only use the PS3 to play GT5 and deal with their saves) is cheating on any level, regardless of how people justify their "realistic" hybrids. I'm all in favour of them even, but I recognize the inherent problem with them.

What I find so unfortunate is that people will swear off purchasing GT6 if they do get banned from using hybrids. Apparently, anyways. Swear off GT6 if PD doesn't introduce some sort of system to let us do these things in-game, sure - I know I'll be extremely disappointed if there isn't a fairly detailed engine-swap feature, or that we still won't be able to edit rim/tire sizes - but if I were banned from GT5's online servers after I broke the TOS to create some hybrids? I'd accept that, since it was my own choice and my own fault.

 

[thelvynau]

But that's basically what this argument keeps circling back to; diving into the game to modify it beyond what PD intended (as well as what's available to those who only use the PS3 to play GT5 and deal with their saves) is cheating on any level, regardless of how people justify their "realistic" hybrids. I'm all in favour of them even, but I recognize the inherent problem with them.

What I find so unfortunate is that people will swear off purchasing GT6 if they do get banned from using hybrids. Apparently, anyways. Swear off GT6 if PD doesn't introduce some sort of system to let us do these things in-game, sure - I know I'll be extremely disappointed if there isn't a fairly detailed engine-swap feature, or that we still won't be able to edit rim/tire sizes - but if I were banned from GT5's online servers after I broke the TOS to create some hybrids? I'd accept that, since it was my own choice and my own fault.

The problem is right or wrong people from both sides of the argument are attacking people just for thr hybrids its definitely put a rift in a bit of gtp.

If I do get banned I will accept my punishment and move on with my life but people really take it personally.

 

[brianwong]

Wait so even if it doesn't give any performance increase or yield any advantage, it is still a cheat? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because anything you do to increase a cars performance through "hacking" will increase performance points to boot.

 

[Stavingo]

Some people are, in fact, ruining the experience with poorly crafted hybrids. A well done mod is a sleeper.

Exactly, all the obvious X1 mods and huge HP cars just ruin it for everyone.

 

[Griffith500]

But that's basically what this argument keeps circling back to; diving into the game to modify it beyond what PD intended (as well as what's available to those who only use the PS3 to play GT5 and deal with their saves) is cheating on any level, regardless of how people justify their "realistic" hybrids. I'm all in favour of them even, but I recognize the inherent problem with them.

What I find so unfortunate is that people will swear off purchasing GT6 if they do get banned from using hybrids. Apparently, anyways. Swear off GT6 if PD doesn't introduce some sort of system to let us do these things in-game, sure - I know I'll be extremely disappointed if there isn't a fairly detailed engine-swap feature, or that we still won't be able to edit rim/tire sizes - but if I were banned from GT5's online servers after I broke the TOS to create some hybrids? I'd accept that, since it was my own choice and my own fault.

Well, yes, but I guess maybe I want so much for that to go without saying.
I'm not cheating anyone with my hybrids, though. Also, as a life-long PC gamer, diving into the files to tailor things to my liking is all part of the experience for me. There's also no legal standpoint for me not to if I don't actually break any real laws.

If games are going to be dragged into the 21st century, it's about time that they realised that punishing everyone for the behaviour of idiots just isn't good enough. Add the controls, features and filters, give us the power to do what we want to do in the game, and maybe even the cheaters will get their fun at nobody's (except other cheaters') expense. Cheating just means not playing by the rules, and rules aren't concrete.

Idealism? Maybe, but it's an understatement that more could be done. I don't expect anything for GT5, but I hope that PD took the right messages from all of this - don't focus on inhibiting, focus on enabling.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Wait so even if it doesn't give any performance increase or yield any advantage, it is still a cheat? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because anything you do to increase a cars performance through "hacking" will increase performance points to boot.

Sure it is. Using the BRZ as an example; if I dropped a 22B into the engine bay like Griff, I've got access to a lot more potential final tuned horsepower than I would have otherwise, with a heaping extra slug of torque and a broader powerband too. Even "downgrading", like putting the 135i's engine in the E92 M3, is a form of cheating, since you're making that car competitive at a different PP level than it normally could do, with far different engine characteristics.

I suppose the strictly visual mods like removable wings or painting a Ferrari 330 aren't "cheating" in the competitive sense, and obviously none of it will affect other players if you have a purely offline account for it, but the main point I'm trying to make is we all agreed to the TOS when we went online, so if someone is planning on using these modified cars there, they (should) accept the consequences, regardless of what level of modifications they've done.

Well, yes, but I guess maybe I want so much for that to go without saying.
I'm not cheating anyone with my hybrids, though. Also, as a life-long PC gamer, diving into the files to tailor things to my liking is all part of the experience for me. There's also no legal standpoint for me not to if I don't actually break any real laws.

If games are going to be dragged into the 21st century, it's about time that they realised that punishing everyone for the behaviour of idiots just isn't good enough. Add the controls, features and filters, give us the power to do what we want to do in the game, and maybe even the cheaters will get their fun at nobody's (except other cheaters') expense. Cheating just means not playing by the rules, and rules aren't concrete.

Idealism? Maybe, but it's an understatement that more could be done. I don't expect anything for GT5, but I hope that PD took the right messages from all of this - don't focus on inhibiting, focus on enabling.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm in the same opinion-boat on this, and I have the same hope. I don't expect much to be fixed in the next game though; PD has made it increasingly clear over each subsequent game that the primary goal is making the game that Kaz wants to play, with bizarre limitations in so many different portions of the game, instead of a game that the buyers/players want.

 

[brianwong]

Sure it is. Using the BRZ as an example; if I dropped a 22B into the engine bay like Griff, I've got access to a lot more potential final tuned horsepower than I would have otherwise, with a heaping extra slug of torque and a broader powerband too. Even "downgrading", like putting the 135i's engine in the E92 M3, is a form of cheating, since you're making that car competitive at a different PP level than it normally could do, with far different engine characteristics.

I suppose the strictly visual mods like removable wings or painting a Ferrari 330 aren't "cheating" in the competitive sense, and obviously none of it will affect other players if you have a purely offline account for it, but the main point I'm trying to make is we all agreed to the TOS when we went online, so if someone is planning on using these modified cars there, they (should) accept the consequences, regardless of what level of modifications they've done.



Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm in the same opinion-boat on this, and I have the same hope. I don't expect much to be fixed in the next game though; PD has made it increasingly clear over each subsequent game that the primary goal is making the game that Kaz wants to play, with bizarre limitations in so many different portions of the game, instead of a game that the buyers/players want.

But with your E92, you get a slow, heavy car. It's no different from a ballasted down 135i. And FYI, PD measures the area under the torque/power curve too, not just peak.

 

[1241Penguin]

But with your E92, you get a slow, heavy car. It's no different from a ballasted down 135i. And FYI, PD measures the area under the torque/power curve too, not just peak.

 

[brianwong]

Hybrids do not give an advantage at any given PP level. It's that simple.

 

[Griffith500]

Sure it is. Using the BRZ as an example; if I dropped a 22B into the engine bay like Griff, I've got access to a lot more potential final tuned horsepower than I would have otherwise, with a heaping extra slug of torque and a broader powerband too. Even "downgrading", like putting the 135i's engine in the E92 M3, is a form of cheating, since you're making that car competitive at a different PP level than it normally could do, with far different engine characteristics.

I suppose the strictly visual mods like removable wings or painting a Ferrari 330 aren't "cheating" in the competitive sense, and obviously none of it will affect other players if you have a purely offline account for it, but the main point I'm trying to make is we all agreed to the TOS when we went online, so if someone is planning on using these modified cars there, they (should) accept the consequences, regardless of what level of modifications they've done.

I maintain that it is not cheating if you're not breaking any rules, especially if you're not even playing the "game", so to speak, those rules define. The rules (or lack thereof) are usually set by the players, which is why we have the need for more flexibility online. That is paramount, almost anything else can wait.

Painting a 330 is cheating, though, if the rules are that you can't paint cars that aren't paintable in-game. Also, removing wings is cheating in getting "good looking" cars in the game. It's all subjective, rules are not universal. Let players decide individually, not collectively, and not only on a very coarse level, what's acceptable.

Yes, the potential consequences of contravening the TOS should be taken into account, but anyone complaining about that really oughtn't be given the time of day - like I said, it should go without saying. I go online with my hybrids, though, and I'm 100% confident I won't be banned for it, because I don't piss on anyone's picnic. But that's just me; I wouldn't do that anyway, TOS or no TOS, hybrid or no.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm in the same opinion-boat on this, and I have the same hope. I don't expect much to be fixed in the next game though; PD has made it increasingly clear over each subsequent game that the primary goal is making the game that Kaz wants to play, with bizarre limitations in so many different portions of the game, instead of a game that the buyers/players want.

That sort of is his prerogative, but we have previously seen promise(s) in the area of personalisation (that didn't make it into GT5 for whatever reason), so we can only wait and see. I am, as ever, cautiously optimistic, and also (finally) well aware that my expectations are my own responsibility.

 

[1241Penguin]

Hybrids do not give an advantage at any given PP level. It's that simple.

Cheating is when you do something in a video game that is beyond the normal parameters of the game. Hybriding is just that. You can't swap engines by normal means, nor can you swap drivetrains by normal means.

As Griff said however, some cheats would be more acceptable than others.

 

[KinLM]

Hybrids do not give an advantage at any given PP level. It's that simple.

Yes there is.

Because I could take a Lotus Elise, which is an extremely good car for the PP levels it can reach, and drop an F1 engine in it.

Now, you have a car which already benefits from being good at it's PP, which is now able to compete at much higher levels.

Or, you could put a tiny engine in it, making it to where it can race at lower PP's as well.

Normally I could just buy another Elise and tune it myself, that way we could have a fair race.

But if you're putting different engines in it, your Elise will be at too high/low of PP for mine to compete with.

Which means I'll have to find some other car, and as I said above, I'll have MUCH more trouble beating, since the Elise is so fast for how much PP the game gives it.

The ONLY way I could fairly compete now is by personally hybriding my Elise so that it can compete at the same PP levels as yours.

Which, is breaking the TOS and by rules is cheating, considering the fact that I would be breaking rules that I agreed to by altering my Elise so that I would be competitive against your Elise.

No matter how you look at it, it's cheating.

Don't get me wrong, I want all these mods too! I want to put Rotary engines in a Skyline and and Zonda Engine in an Autozam. I want to be able to do all of this stuff too!

But, as of right now it isn't fair. The game isn't built for it, and if I were to hybrid cars, I could make cars that were too competitive at higher levels that other people couldn't compete with unless they cheated as well.

For right now, this hybriding has to stop. But hopefully one day, it will be able to fairly return.

 

[Tornado]

Hybrids do not give an advantage at any given PP level. It's that simple.

The PP system did a bad enough job balancing the cars in the game even before the hybriding started.

 

[lspredator]

my 2 cents: I'm using a 2jz toyota altezza. It feels awesome, it looks awesome, and it is my favorite car ingame at this point. It has around 500 hp at this point.

What, in the name of the lord, would be wrong with that?

Frankly, if pd bans me because i have it in my garage, i will accept it. I won't try getting on gt5 again, nor buy gt6. Don't they realise, that these hybrids are the best thing that has happened to gt5 in the last year? People came back, to gt5 because of the extra customization possible to these cars.

+1

 

[brianwong]

You know why the Elise has such low pp right? It has the weight balance of a Ruf Yellowbird.

 

[KinLM]

You know why the Elise has such low pp right? It has the weight balance of a Ruf Yellowbird.

So? I have an Elise with a neutral feel through the turns thanks to plenty of time of testing and tuning.

I hate to bring it out online simply because it has too low a PP for how fast it can go.

If you're even a halfway decent tuner, you can tune your Elise to handle fine, just as you can with the Yellowbird.

So the excuse that it's a bit tail happy isn't too valid in this situation.

And I'm only using the Elise as an example.

I could also do the same things I mentioned doing with the Elise, only with an NSX, which might I add has fantastic balance. See my point?

 

[lspredator]

Wait so even if it doesn't give any performance increase or yield any advantage, it is still a cheat? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me because anything you do to increase a cars performance through "hacking" will increase performance points to boot.

I made my real Life car now
200sx s13 dowgraded from SR20DET to CA18DET and installed a STOCK s15 turbo Garret T28 Pulsar
EUC Chip
Sport Air Filter
Sport Exhoust
and removed the STOCK wing
It maske the same hp as my real Life car 250hp

I did a Replica of Diago Saito's Chaser
And i did a Replica of Fredric Aasbo's GT86
And a Replica of Joacim Waagaard's RX-7
Also made a Replica of ALM racing's Audi S4
And Steffen MOY's R32 Replica
Replica of Ringnes Supra
And a Replica of DK's Silvia S15
DriftMonkey Junior S14 Replica

 

[ImprezaAddict]

Well even if it's considered cheating, giving the '05, '07 and '11 STis the engine that the '99 STi Version VI uses made the sound more appropriate and I loved the change. I took off the wings on some to create the S20x models as well. It's all just for personal entertainment, but I do understand why it's considered cheating.

It's just the most ethical and reasonable cheating I've ever done in a game though. It's just how I see it.

 

[brianwong]

So? I have an Elise with a neutral feel through the turns thanks to plenty of time of testing and tuning.

I hate to bring it out online simply because it has too low a PP for how fast it can go.

If you're even a halfway decent tuner, you can tune your Elise to handle fine, just as you can with the Yellowbird.

So the excuse that it's a bit tail happy isn't too valid in this situation.

And I'm only using the Elise as an example.

I could also do the same things I mentioned doing with the Elise, only with an NSX, which might I add has fantastic balance. See my point?

Yeah, but add a bit of power and you can see why it is not that ideal.

 

[eminembeastfan2]

I mean all I do is remove the wing and tune up as close as to real life as I can. I don't hybrid cars pass 1k because that's just plain stupid, I also don't use in seasonal or non online approve lobbies, and If I join a lobby just for racing I would race with normal non hybrid car btw I only have 2 hybrids a subaru and a premium Honda both below 1.3k HP.

Its not fare that others have to ruin hybriding by making unrealistic tunes and using them to annoy people. I mean hybrid makes the game more fun if you use it for a good purpose and not just to ruin the game just like people did with the x1.

 

[KinLM]

I mean all I do is remove the wing and tune up as close as to real life as I can. I don't hybrid cars pass 1k because that's just plain stupid, I also don't use in seasonal or non online approve lobbies, and If I join a lobby just for racing I would race with normal non hybrid car btw I only have 2 hybrids a subaru and a premium Honda both below 1.3k HP.

Its not fare that others have to ruin hybriding by making unrealistic tunes and using them to annoy people. I mean hybrid makes the game more fun if you use it for a good purpose and not just to ruin the game just like people did with the x1.

Just being brutally honest..

I don't know how much you're helping.. If you want realistic hybrids, well.. A 1300 HP car is pretty far out there. That's right on the edge of realism.

If I were you and I wanted realistic hybrids, I'd limit myself to, maybe like 900 at the very most?

But hey, you're the one making these. Do what you feel is right.

 

[Stavingo]

Just being brutally honest..

I don't know how much you're helping.. If you want realistic hybrids, well.. A 1300 HP car is pretty far out there. That's right on the edge of realism.

If I were you and I wanted realistic hybrids, I'd limit myself to, maybe like 900 at the very most?

But hey, you're the one making these. Do what you feel is right.

All depends on the context and how he uses them in order to decide how realistic his amount of horsepower is within a car.