Should PD have let the modding slide? ... OP Updated.

Should PD allow this activity in GT5?


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I'll throw this question in the air...

"Would GT5 hybrid cars still have come into existence if PD had regularly released DLC cars as they initially offered?"

Yes, this has nothing to do with DLC. DLC doesn't appeal to everyone anyway, some people complain about having to spend $1. In fact, more DLC might have hastened the creation of hybrids as people who objected to paying that dollar for good new cars, can create them on their own free of cost.

If PD would keep us happy this wouldnt happen.

Baloney. This would have happened no matter what PD did. If it's possible to do something, it will be done, number one rule of life. Whoever discovered this isn't going to say to himself, "Oh I found a way to do engine and drivetrain swaps but I'm not going to because PD has had regular DLC just like they promised" The world doesn't work that way, that stuff only happens in movies and on tv.
 
Everyone technically does, though the only way to make sure you don't suffer any backlash from using them is to avoid using them. Also, since these things come from outside the game, not everyone will know about them or know how to get them.

Or just don't use them online.
 
To be honest, I don't think it's the engine/chassis/drivetrain swap cars that ruin it. It's the power multiplier cars that have taken things way out of hand.

Precisely!

I love my widened out cars. Wheel poke out the body that I could never achieve! But then as I'm driving some muppet in a 50k hp r8 blasts by. I always ask "what enjoyment does that give you?".

This modification of the game save is best enjoyed when making cars better aesthetically.
 
question:

do the engine/driveline/chassis swaps affect pp? or does it remain unaltered?

ie does it get recalculated.
 
I think it's pretty obvious that everyone has access to it.

Everyone who follows the forums on GTPlanet, who has some basic technical knowledge and who are willing to break the terms of service of PSN and risk a potential permanent ban. That is not everyone.

It's not much different from DLC.

Modding is the same thing as DLC? Not by a million miles.
If there was a DLC pack that gave you extra tuning options there would be some similarity, but the key difference would be that one of them is an intended and supported feature designed to work within the game while the other is an unintended and prohibited feature which requires you to break the terms of service and might mess up a billion things, including other people's experience of the game.

Imagine you're running an online racing league, perhaps you're having 4-5 different eligible cars, all selected because they are very similar to each other in performance. Suddenly you have a lot of people altering the data of these cars and you have no clue what sort of things people are gonna show up in. The guy who just won a race, did he win that fair and square, or did he secretly use a different chassis which gave his car a small but crucial advantage over the others? Does his engine have the same torque curve as everyone elses, or did he swap engines? There is no way to check and no way to control and the racing league you've been running for half a year is effectively dead because the trust is gone - everyone is a potential cheater. Well, why don't we just let everyone cheat, wouldn't that be great? I'm sorry, that totally spoils the entire point of the game. One billion horsepowers is amazing to some people. To other people, fair play is more important. If you're not happy with the game - don't play it. Don't ruin it for everyone who do want to play it.
 
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I have no idea what you're talking about and yes there are people who don't cheat. They're called "honest". You might want to look that up in the dictionary. Because you want something in the game, doesn't mean it doesn't violate the agreement you made with Sony.



I don't care what happened with Game Genie, this is GT5 and it is cheating. It's a violation of the agreement we all made with Sony.

Obviously you have never played Contra, so google that before we have that disscussion. Question for you, at any point in time have you had any of the following: Napster, Kazaa, Limewire, BitTorrent? Music companies didn't want you to have their music before release but we (people as a whole) found a way to get it. Again there is moderation to these hybrids that people need to realize

It's one thing to use cheat codes that are built in with the game and meant to be used for whoever wants to. It's a completely different thing to go in an alter the files of a game, especially in a context where a big part of the game is about online competition. Realistic hybrids may be fun, but where do people draw the line? Should modding only be available to drifters? How do we make sure that happens? There's no way of doing that, so the only solution must be to ban it altogether.

No they shouldn't i just find that we finally get to make the drift cars we have been wanting and famous cars that we have been wanting to replicate.
 
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Everyone who follows the forums on GTPlanet, who has some basic technical knowledge and who are willing to break the terms of service of PSN and risk a potential permanent ban. That is not everyone.

If you think this is just limited to these forums, you need to look around more.

Everyone has access to it. They may not know about it, but they have access if/when they figure it out.
 
arora
The ps2 had online functionality, iirc the slim lines came with a built in network adapter, install disc, and a manual.

Ok should have worded better they couldnt patch the ps2 to block those cheating devices.
 
If you think this is just limited to these forums, you need to look around more.

Everyone has access to it. They may not know about it, but they have access if/when they figure it out.

Well, anyone can rob a bank, that doesn't make us all potential millionaires.

I just find that we finally get to make the drift cars we have been wanting and famous cars that we have been wanting to replicate.

Yes, and that's all great. But unfortunately, modding doesn't stop there. There's no way of preventing modified cars to join races where they're not welcome. Basically you have to be able to spot that it's a modded car, and if the modifications are subtle enough it will be hard to spot. Is that driver fast because he's very skilled, or is he fast because he's using a modded car? No way to tell.
 
I think it's pretty obvious that everyone has access to it.

Everybody who's ever played a shooting game has access to wall glitches, too ;)

The "just don't use it online" thing is honorable, but the problem is, you probably fall into the minority T. Even I'll admit I've been tempted to start a secondary (er, tertiary at this point) account just to see what the fuss is about, but the problem with these being hacks is that they aren't regulated, nor remotely representative of reality. I could toss a Viper V10 into a Fiat 500 with absolutely no weight change. Chassis mods are bizarrely tied to weight, and they're used to modify the car's wheelbase and tracks, just further highlighting the simplistic tire model and it's lack of options, IMO. From what I can gather, there's no way to change the size of tires either.

I can do engine/drivetrain swaps in FM4, and they do affect weight and distribution. Of course, with hybrids, I'm not limited to the options the developers gave me (specifically, no more staying with the same manufacturer), but PD's seeming dislike for replay info means it's almost impossible to determine if the guy you just raced was running anything you can't do normally in the game. And that's one of the main points of console gaming; we're all supposed to be working from the same base when it comes to competing. Hybrids upset that balance.

If replay files can be interpreted similarly to the garages are now, then that could help erase a lot of the stigma currently associated with hybrids, as series stewards could actually have something to work with better than simple suspicion.
 
My main problem, is that we have only seen slow cars being made ludicrously fast. Everyone wants to cheat, but, no one wants to put an MX-5 motor into a hyper-light F1 car with reduced aero; no one has made anything slower. Just seems like everyone's making 50,000 hp FIATs. 👎 Everyone makes their hybrids into cheat cars, no one makes a Star Mazda...
 
My main problem, is that we have only seen slow cars being made ludicrously fast. Everyone wants to cheat, but, no one wants to put an MX-5 motor into a hyper-light F1 car with reduced aero; no one has made anything slower. Just seems like everyone's making 50,000 hp FIATs. 👎 Everyone makes their hybrids into cheat cars, no one makes a Star Mazda...

People have been doing twin rotors into MX-5s, Ive done a straight four into a Caterham to replace that useless Fireblade engine. People are doing realistic and nice conversions out there... And Now I kinda want to put an RB26 into an FGT...
 
People have been doing twin rotors into MX-5s, Ive done a straight four into a Caterham to replace that useless Fireblade engine. People are doing realistic and nice conversions out there... And Now I kinda want to put an RB26 into an FGT...

I put a Nissan Primera 20V motor into my Caterham. Much better. 👍

And the smaller motor into a Formula car gives me an idea.... :dopey:
 
People have been doing twin rotors into MX-5s, Ive done a straight four into a Caterham to replace that useless Fireblade engine. People are doing realistic and nice conversions out there...

And here is the evidence to why modding will ultimately ruin online racing in GT5 and potentially also in GT6. If everyone were just making 10 000 hp cars they would be easy to spot and kick from the lobbies. With realistic mods it's impossible to tell. Again, I'm sure you personally wouldn't use a modded car to cheat with in online races, but the mere possibility will attract a few people, and once it starts it will just explode, because people don't want to have a disadvantage in a race.

Just look on the ways people behave in public lobbies. If everyone is racing clean, then most people will stick to a clean manner. If someone starts roughing, people will start to be more aggressive and eventually the room will get out of hands. Before you know it someone will start going in reverse direction to get revenge on someone and there you have it.

There's no reason to expect modded cars to be any different. Dirty drivers doesn't always stick to dirty lobbies, and modding drivers will not always stick to modding lobbies.
 
Modding is the same thing as DLC?
No, but gaining additional options through modding isn't much different than doing so through DLC. You need to buy the DLC/get the mods to have those things, so not everyone will have them.

It's not having something different that is a problem. The problem comes from other issues.


Imagine you're running an online racing league, perhaps you're having 4-5 different eligible cars, all selected because they are very similar to each other in performance. Suddenly you have a lot of people altering the data of these cars and you have no clue what sort of things people are gonna show up in. The guy who just won a race, did he win that fair and square, or did he secretly use a different chassis which gave his car a small but crucial advantage over the others? Does his engine have the same torque curve as everyone elses, or did he swap engines? There is no way to check and no way to control and the racing league you've been running for half a year is effectively dead because the trust is gone
This doesn't sound terrible different to GT5 pre-mods. The online options are limited. Suppose before mods, you wanted to have 5 cars race each other, all balanced as they are. How do you know if the winner was using racing suspension or drivertrain parts?

Use the "no tuning" option, or whatever it's call? Then do the same for the post modding league race (except you would have to cross check hp and weight with PP).
- everyone is a potential cheater. Well, why don't we just let everyone cheat, wouldn't that be great? I'm sorry, that totally spoils the entire point of the game.
I'd rather have PD set up online the right way.

One billion horsepowers is amazing to some people. To other people, fair play is more important. If you're not happy with the game - don't play it. Don't ruin it for everyone who do want to play it.

Modding your own game doesn't harm anyone. It's abusing modding that does. This doesn't mean that PD should sit around and not do anything, but I think that distinction is important to make.

And here is the evidence to why modding will ultimately ruin online racing in GT5 and potentially also in GT6. If everyone were just making 10 000 hp cars they would be easy to spot and kick from the lobbies. With realistic mods it's impossible to tell.
An S2000 with a 4000 RPM redline would be suspicious for one. It would also be suspicious if the hp and PP didn't match up to stock.

But beyond that, the sneaky mods don't necessarily make a bigger threat. They're within bounds that the PP system can handle, and basically act even more like a DLC car.

Just look on the ways people behave in public lobbies. If everyone is racing clean, then most people will stick to a clean manner. If someone starts roughing, people will start to be more aggressive and eventually the room will get out of hands. Before you know it someone will start going in reverse direction to get revenge on someone and there you have it.
Never seen this happen personally. I've seen people ask for trouble makers to be kicked though. I've also seen hosts managing rooms.

There's no reason to expect modded cars to be any different. Dirty drivers doesn't always stick to dirty lobbies, and modding drivers will not always stick to modding lobbies.

Which is the big problem here.
 
And here is the evidence to why modding will ultimately ruin online racing in GT5 and potentially also in GT6. If everyone were just making 10 000 hp cars they would be easy to spot and kick from the lobbies. With realistic mods it's impossible to tell. Again, I'm sure you personally wouldn't use a modded car to cheat with in online races, but the mere possibility will attract a few people, and once it starts it will just explode, because people don't want to have a disadvantage in a race.

Just look on the ways people behave in public lobbies. If everyone is racing clean, then most people will stick to a clean manner. If someone starts roughing, people will start to be more aggressive and eventually the room will get out of hands. Before you know it someone will start going in reverse direction to get revenge on someone and there you have it.

There's no reason to expect modded cars to be any different. Dirty drivers doesn't always stick to dirty lobbies, and modding drivers will not always stick to modding lobbies.

The PP gets recalculated accordingly. So long as the right restrcitions are put in place, there wont be an advantage. It will just add more Variety to what people will use.
 
And here is the evidence to why modding will ultimately ruin online racing in GT5 and potentially also in GT6. If everyone were just making 10 000 hp cars they would be easy to spot and kick from the lobbies. With realistic mods it's impossible to tell. Again, I'm sure you personally wouldn't use a modded car to cheat with in online races, but the mere possibility will attract a few people, and once it starts it will just explode, because people don't want to have a disadvantage in a race.

On the flip side, having these realistically modded cars could create some EPIC racing leagues.
 
On the flip side, having these realistically modded cars could create some EPIC racing leagues.

Win.
They should leave it and cap the games possible HP max as well as Max Power:weight ratio. That would stop the overzealous modders and leave the enthusiasts alone.
 
Win.
They should leave it and cap the games possible HP max as well as Max Power:weight ratio. That would stop the overzealous modders and leave the enthusiasts alone.

An even better solution would be PP and hp/weight rules at the same time and adding power/weight ratio as a rule option. And all of that should be the minimum they do. There's really no reason or benefit to removing the 10000000000000000000000000000000000000 hp cars, silly as they are.
 
No, but gaining additional options through modding isn't much different than doing so through DLC. You need to buy the DLC/get the mods to have those things, so not everyone will have them.

It's not having something different that is a problem. The problem comes from other issues.

You can't cheat with DLC cars though. You can't use the Aventador and make it look like the Beetle. Everyone can see exactly what you are using. That's not the case with mods.

This doesn't sound terrible different to GT5 pre-mods. The online options are limited. Suppose before mods, you wanted to have 5 cars race each other, all balanced as they are. How do you know if the winner was using racing suspension or drivertrain parts?

Use the "no tuning" option, or whatever it's call? Then do the same for the post modding league race (except you would have to cross check hp and weight with PP).

I'd rather have PD set up online the right way.

Racing suspension and drivetrain parts are all available in game.
Modding is not. "No tuning" option is great if you want no tuning. But what do you do if you want tuning but no modding? There's no option for that. basically you're saying that either you allow modding or you have to race stock. A question though, if you do select "no tuning" in a lobby, are all modded cars banned or can you still enter if you only swapped engine or chassis or something that doesn't add a tuner part? If so, then "no tuning" doesn't work for that.

Modding your own game doesn't harm anyone. It's abusing modding that does. This doesn't mean that PD should sit around and not do anything, but I think that distinction is important to make.

It isn't your own game if your own game is connected to 9.2 million other copies of it and you're using your car in online racing. And we can't say that modding should be available to anyone who doesn't use their cars online, because there's no way to check that.

An S2000 with a 4000 RPM redline would be suspicious for one. It would also be suspicious if the hp and PP didn't match up to stock.

So now we have to babysit the replay files after every race, comparing engine revs between 1000+ different cars. That's going to be fun.

But beyond that, the sneaky mods don't necessarily make a bigger threat. They're within bounds that the PP system can handle, and basically act even more like a DLC car.

Sure, they may be great. Trouble is, not everyone can get them. Everyone can get a DLC car, you just need to buy it from the PSN store, it is part of the game, no sneaking about. Everyone can't get a modded car, or if they can they're not willing to risk their PSN accounts for doing so.

Never seen this happen personally. I've seen people ask for trouble makers to be kicked though. I've also seen hosts managing rooms.

Yes, but the crucial difference is that dirty driving is easy to spot. Subtle mods aren't.

The PP gets recalculated accordingly. So long as the right restrcitions are put in place, there wont be an advantage. It will just add more Variety to what people will use.

I would like to see an extensive test of different possible modifications and how they compare in performance points and lap times to unmodded cars before I buy that argument. How about cars getting the X1 or 2J fan? How about cars getting downforce parts that doesn't show? If you want to have a one make race with a certain type of car, and then people are showing up in all kinds of different chassis, isn't that going to affect the performance?

On the flip side, having these realistically modded cars could create some EPIC racing leagues.

Sure it could. But not without a cost.
 
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Pretty much came to the conclusion that I'll be making some amazing hybrids with LV.

787B motor in an RX7
NASCAR powered Mustang
STi powered BRZ
RWD Integra
etc etc etc
 
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I put a Nissan Primera 20V motor into my Caterham. Much better. 👍

And the smaller motor into a Formula car gives me an idea.... :dopey:

People have been doing twin rotors into MX-5s, Ive done a straight four into a Caterham to replace that useless Fireblade engine. People are doing realistic and nice conversions out there... And Now I kinda want to put an RB26 into an FGT...


Caterham engine bay surprisingly big?

Also, a dual rotor will be faster. I said no one's making their cars slower. You're proving my point.
 
Caterham engine bay surprisingly big?

Also, a dual rotor will be faster. I said no one's making their cars slower. You're proving my point.

Eh, I did swap a Zonda R engine into my X2011 :sly:. Now I'm thinking a 111R engine in an LMP might be interesting...
 
RB26 is much slower than whats in the FGT... Thats slower, is it not?

Sort of. But, you said that you are planning on it, not that you have made it. You might still change your mind.

Besides cars like Formula Cars, why would you make them slower?

No one's making GTS-t Skylines, no one's making Impreza non-WRX STi... No one seems to be making their real life car, to see what sort of lap times they could get around whichever track in their real car.

Eh, I did swap a Zonda R engine into my X2011 :sly:. Now I'm thinking a 111R engine in an LMP might be interesting...

Why?
 
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