Should PD have let the modding slide? ... OP Updated.

Should PD allow this activity in GT5?


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You can't cheat with DLC cars though. You can't use the Aventador and make it look like the Beetle. Everyone can see exactly what you are using. That's not the case with mods.
There is really no difference there. The Aventador in Beetle's clothing will standout easily with rules in place, and if it passes the rules, it's probably not going to give anyone an advantage.



Racing suspension and drivetrain parts are all available in game.
Modding is not. "No tuning" option is great if you want no tuning. But what do you do if you want tuning but no modding?
You missed the point, you can't partially enforce no tuning. Even if mods did not exist, you would have to go through extra procedures to enforce special rules.

PD should fix this. It will not only defend rooms from mod cars, but also people who are dishonest without mod cars.

There's no option for that. basically you're saying that either you allow modding or you have to race stock.
I just want to reinforce that I said nothing like that.


It isn't your own game if your own game is connected to 9.2 million other copies of it and you're using your car in online racing.
Which would imply not going online, at least not without informing everyone what you're doing and getting their permission first.

Yes, yes I know, honestly and/or the lack of it. Mods, by themselves still aren't bad, and people shouldn't think they are. The solution is to stop people from abusing them.

Now I wouldn't blame PD if they made all the mod cars disappear over night, but another solution to this (for future games anyway) might be allowing modding and then controlling it.


So now we have to babysit the replay files after every race, comparing engine revs between 1000+ different cars. That's going to be fun.
Has always been the case outside of simple room regulations.

Still the point was, it's not completely stealthy.



Sure, they may be great. Trouble is, not everyone can get them. Everyone can get a DLC car, you just need to buy it from the PSN store, it is part of the game, no sneaking about. Everyone can't get a modded car, or if they can they're not willing to risk their PSN accounts for doing so.
That doesn't give those cars an advantage though.


Yes, but the crucial difference is that dirty driving is easy to spot. Subtle mods aren't.
The ones subtle enough to go unnoticed probably aren't even worth worrying over though. Also, if they are so subtle, then this runaway copy cat crisis you described probably won't happen.

To be honest, I probably wouldn't even go out of my way to look for modders until something suspicious lead me to. It seems some people can't stand the thought of the cars even existing though, so to each their own.

I would like to see an extensive test of different possible modifications and how they compare in performance points and lap times to unmodded cars before I buy that argument. How about cars getting the X1 or 2J fan? How about cars getting downforce parts that doesn't show? If you want to have a one make race with a certain type of car, and then people are showing up in all kinds of different chassis, isn't that going to affect the performance?
This would be a good thing to test.

No one's making GTS-t Skylines, no one's making Impreza non-WRX STi... No one seems to be making their real life car, to see what sort of lap times they could get around whichever track in their real car.
It's not like lowering power is more noble than raising it. Also, some people do own fast cars. The people upgrading their cars might very well be trying to drive their real life cars.
 
There is really no difference there. The Aventador in Beetle's clothing will standout easily with rules in place, and if it passes the rules, it's probably not going to give anyone an advantage.

That would be fine if there were rules to regulate everything, but there aren't. Imagine you have a one make series for a certain type of car and you set a limit to engine power and minimum weight. What is there to stop (or even spot) if someone put a modded F1 wing to their car and gets twice as much downforce as everyone else? There's nothing.

You missed the point, you can't partially enforce no tuning. Even if mods did not exist, you would have to go through extra procedures to enforce special rules.

PD should fix this. It will not only defend rooms from mod cars, but also people who are dishonest without mod cars.

Agreed, an option to select exactly which tuning parts were allowed and which weren't would be great. That's a flaw in the game. But when you set a limit for something it's with the intention of having an even field of cars, and although you can't decide exactly how to achieve that limitation, you know that everyone has the same tuning options available. When modding cars are introduced, that is no longer the case.

Well, everyone could go ahead and use modded cars I guess, but that makes just as much sense as to say that everyone in Tour the France should start with doping to not get a disadvantage to those who already use doping.

Which would imply not going online, at least not without informing everyone what you're doing and getting their permission first.

Yes, yes I know, honestly and/or the lack of it. Mods, by themselves still aren't bad, and people shouldn't think they are. The solution is to stop people from abusing them.

Yes, but there is no such solution, is there? So why even propose it?

Now I wouldn't blame PD if they made all the mod cars disappear over night, but another solution to this (for future games anyway) might be allowing modding and then controlling it.

Yep, that is one way. If that would happen and they introduce modding as a legitimate way of tuning cars with corresponding ways of controlling how they are used online, I would gladly start modding myself. Some of the creations I've seen are extremely cool, I have to admit that.

That doesn't give those cars an advantage though.

Not by default, but it gives the player using that car an advantage, which is more tuning options. That is not fair play.

The ones subtle enough to go unnoticed probably aren't even worth worrying over though. Also, if they are so subtle, then this runaway copy cat crisis you described probably won't happen.

Even a gain of 1/10th of second per lap can be enough to make the difference between win or lose. These things will be judged by mere suspicion as it's impossible to prove anything. If player A, who's always been slower than player B, suddently becomes slightly faster than B, people are going to be suspicious. Now, there's nothing that says that player B is the fastest racer in the world and that no one can possibly be faster, but it's unlikely that player A suddently got that skilled. It can't be proven that player A used a modded car, so he can't really be excluded on a mere suspicion. However, a lot of people will be more or less convinced that it's the only way he could have done it, and so to not get a disadvantage, someone else starts using modding secretly and in the end most people will do it. Remove modding altogether (or find ways to control it, which there aren't yet) or the trust will ultimately get lost. Compare it to doping, there are a lot of athletes who would never dream of using doping, but the mere possibility makes everyone suspicious, especially when someone performs extremely well.

To be honest, I probably wouldn't even go out of my way to look for modders until something suspicious lead me to. It seems some people can't stand the thought of the cars even existing though, so to each their own.

I don't think cheating should be allowed at all, even it it just makes them slightly faster than everyone else.

The problem with the existence of the cars is that there's no way to control the use of them. If there were ways to control their use, their existence wouldn't be a problem. But since there is no such way, there is a problem.
 
As I said in my previous post there is a simple fix PD could implement for online gaming. Give tools that rooms can use that would filter out any car that isnt according to hardcoded games specs/parameters. For example if someone would try to run a Fiat 500 with any component thats not from a stock Fiat 500 the car cant be loaded into the room. If Sony did this then you can have rooms that are only for stock GT5 cars. End of discussion of it ruining online experience for those that are purists.

IF and thats a big IF, Sony wants to they can also allow the ability for individual rooms to turn on or off that filter. So you can also have rooms that allow the hybrids. So those that will bring the hybrid's online will only be able to access those "hybrid" friendly rooms.

I think the Hybrids breathe new life into the offline and online experience. Those that are tired of the standard GT5 will come back for these online hybrid rooms etc. Whether or not Sony chooses to see it this way is a different matter. We will find out with the next patch. They cannot stop this from happening but they surely can regulate it.

Im an offline guy so I would and have NEVER bring a hybrid online. I cant remember the last time I played in one of the online rooms. But for those that are not honest then implement a filter.
 
That would be fine if there were rules to regulate everything, but there aren't. Imagine you have a one make series for a certain type of car and you set a limit to engine power and minimum weight. What is there to stop (or even spot) if someone put a modded F1 wing to their car and gets twice as much downforce as everyone else? There's nothing.

You run into the same problem involving people playing with power limiters or using those cars that have GT Auto wings that look exactly like stock wings.

The solution to both would be PP cross checking.



Agreed, an option to select exactly which tuning parts were allowed and which weren't would be great. That's a flaw in the game. But when you set a limit for something it's with the intention of having an even field of cars, and although you can't decide exactly how to achieve that limitation, you know that everyone has the same tuning options available. When modding cars are introduced, that is no longer the case.
DLC could also give some people different options. But again, having more options isn't necessarily unfair. If you have a 600 PP race, and you never bought DLC, it is unfair if someone shows up in a Skyline TC?


Yes, but there is no such solution, is there? So why even propose it?
Because PD could add it. And I wanted to make the distinction between modding and cheating. I've seen enough posts saying that touching anything in the game save is cheating, which isn't true. It's against PD's/Sony's EULA, but it's not cheating by default.



Even a gain of 1/10th of second per lap can be enough to make the difference between win or lose.
Yes, but this probably the kind of difference you could get just from the PP system not being 100% perfect.
These things will be judged by mere suspicion as it's impossible to prove anything. If player A, who's always been slower than player B, suddently becomes slightly faster than B, people are going to be suspicious.
No one would think that he's found a good set up, or maybe improved a bit? I've seen cases where someone who is usually the best in a group does poorly on occasional, and the opposite sometimes happens to some of the lower end players.

That doesn't discount the possibility that someone cheated to get "better", but I think that saying that it must be mods is jumping to conclusions a little bit.

Now, there's nothing that says that player B is the fastest racer in the world and that no one can possibly be faster, but it's unlikely that player A suddently got that skilled. It can't be proven that player A used a modded car, so he can't really be excluded on a mere suspicion. However, a lot of people will be more or less convinced that it's the only way he could have done it, and so to not get a disadvantage, someone else starts using modding secretly and in the end most people will do it. Remove modding altogether (or find ways to control it, which there aren't yet) or the trust will ultimately get lost. Compare it to doping, there are a lot of athletes who would never dream of using doping, but the mere possibility makes everyone suspicious, especially when someone performs extremely well.
If the sudden turn around in skill is so amazing, then why not investigate to see if the car is modded rather than assume? Especially if this is a league or something, which is sounds like since all these drivers know each other.


I don't think cheating should be allowed at all, even it it just makes them slightly faster than everyone else.
Oh I agree, but the mere possibility of someone having an advantage doesn't completely wreck online for me. I'm also under the assumption that the majority isn't actively trying to cheat (but this only an assumption since I haven't played online for a few months).

The problem with the existence of the cars is that there's no way to control the use of them. If there were ways to control their use, their existence wouldn't be a problem. But since there is no such way, there is a problem.

There are ways to control them, they just involve more effort than setting room PP.
 
Ill tell you a fact. it cant turn like the X2010. Its Rubbish. Its pointless with tire wear and fuel because it cant hold on fuel lolol. And infact no one will have the balls to bring it in a race. Since they will get kicked. Anyway or how. Its pointless because you will know if its modded.

This.
When you've been playing GT5 long enough and you know how to mod cars- you can tell what is modded.
 
Here is my take on it. PD has put a lot of money on the line for liscense agreements with car manufactures. If PD can't ensure the integrity of its coding, it may loose some of those agreements in the future due to manufactures not liking their product being comprimised. We all loose out. Also, if PD has to create more elabrate counter measures, this will add to production developement costs. We the consumers will have to pay more. Also this could push back the release of gt6.

Another point to ponder. How long till someone figures out how to attatch a virus to a code for a car. Won't that be fun trying to contain.
 
Doesn't matter how complex you code something, someone will always find a way into it.

The only way I can see of preventing the hybrid issue was for them not to enable us to backup gamesaves, except onto PS+ or a dedicated "GT5 cloud". If we can't copy the gamesave, then we can't hack it.
 
Doesn't matter how complex you code something, someone will always find a way into it.

The only way I can see of preventing the hybrid issue was for them not to enable us to backup gamesaves, except onto PS+ or a dedicated "GT5 cloud". If we can't copy the gamesave, then we can't hack it.

You know, the other Playstations had dedicated memory cards.

Sony should develop a memory stick that is compatible ONLY with the Playstation, and only allow back-ups to that.
Of course it would have to have a USB style plug to fit into the PS3's USB port, but is doesn't have to truly be a USB device. That would prevent hackers from developing a PC driver for it because the PC's hardware wouldn't even see it.
 
The real problem is that you can get any DLC car for free now...
 
Finally someone brings that up. It will be the greater concern of sony and pd that is for sure, and it's been going on for a very long time already.
 
I think the novelty of 5000bhp cars will fade and it'll soon become more creative.

I've got a 1200bhp GTR with the engine from the Calsonic GTR. It sounds amazing.

GT5 never had enough off-track options and modding, so the hacking brings a new dimension to the game.

I think the controversy comes from the fact it's not an in-game functionality. It requires PC and software to access. This brings ranting from those players who don't know how to do it.

Nobody who hacks / creates hybrids is complaining, so my advice to the ones missing out and moaning is to get involved and learn how to do it.
 
The real problem is that you can get any DLC car for free now...

I guess PD wont be implenting DLC via patchs and using the PSN purchase to unlock them in GT6 now, I don't know why they use this method anyway, I don't want to have to download patchs just because a new DLC is released if I don't even want it.
 
I think the novelty of 5000bhp cars will fade and it'll soon become more creative.

I've got a 1200bhp GTR with the engine from the Calsonic GTR. It sounds amazing.

GT5 never had enough off-track options and modding, so the hacking brings a new dimension to the game.

I think the controversy comes from the fact it's not an in-game functionality. It requires PC and software to access. This brings ranting from those players who don't know how to do it.

Nobody who hacks / creates hybrids is complaining, so my advice to the ones missing out and moaning is to get involved and learn how to do it.

But it's not because of that alone. People are getting up to level 40 left and right with these hacked cars. It's not fair for the people who got there legitimately like myself and a huge bunch of others here in GTP. While playing online I met this kid and he was level 19 when I met him. 2 days later I check his profile and he has only 1,500 miles and he's at level 40 with only 3% of the game completed.

This really bugs me. -.-
 
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Not only that. People are getting up to level 40 left and right with these hacked cars. It's not fair for the people who got there legitimately like myself and a huge bunch of others here in GTP. While playing online I met this kid and he was level 19 when I met him. 2 days later I check his profile and he has only 1,500 miles and he's at level 40 with only 3% of the game completed.

This really bugs me. -.-

Yeah I agree with you there. Likewise I purchased all the rare cars (stealth and chromeline) but apparently you can hack and acquire these now.

But to be honest, I don't really care what others do with their copy of the game. I enjoyed battling to level 40 and grinding to buy cars.

Plus the game is pretty dead now. If this happened within a month or two of release I think it would be a much bigger problem.
 
Yeah I agree with you there. Likewise I purchased all the rare cars (stealth and chromeline) but apparently you can hack and acquire these now.

But to be honest, I don't really care what others do with their copy of the game. I enjoyed battling to level 40 and grinding to buy cars.

Plus the game is pretty dead now. If this happened within a month or two of release I think it would be a much bigger problem.

This game isn't dead. If it was PD wouldn't be releasing weekly seasonal races and releasing DLC or trailers of new stuff coming into the game.
 
People are getting up to level 40 left and right with these hacked cars. It's not fair for the people who got there legitimately like myself and a huge bunch of others here in GTP.

I cannot for the life of me understand that logic, who gives a rats ass what someone else does with a video game they bought?

I can see complaining about cheats in tt's or sneaking a hybrid into an online race but seriously, we all bought the game and with that comes all the content on the disc.

"he didn't play it right" holds zero water to me :rolleyes:
 
This game isn't dead. If it was PD wouldn't be releasing weekly seasonal races and releasing DLC or trailers of new stuff coming into the game.

Adding a couple of random races which take 5 minutes to code and release every week or two doesn't re-ignite the game. It's the same old stuff recycled.

Plus we've had little or no dlc for a lifetime. The game is boring now with not enough off-track action to engage players. The hacking brings this aspect in to the game.

But this is off topic.
 
I cannot for the life of me understand that logic, who gives a rats ass what someone else does with a video game they bought?

I can see complaining about cheats in tt's or sneaking a hybrid into an online race but seriously, we all bought the game and with that comes all the content on the disc.

"he didn't play it right" holds zero water to me :rolleyes:

I wouldn't care either but in my eyes when I play games I like to play them in a fair manner. And when there is other people involved I enjoy it even more when everyone plays by the house rules. Not only that, if people keep doing this then reaching stuff like level 40 won't mean anything and it loses it's value. I know that level 40 isn't that hard but it ain't a walk in the park either.

This is why it bugs me.

 
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i only use hybriding to create realistic cars, i think these people making these 3K HP civics or 20k+ redbulls are stupid

I don't think one is stupider than the other. When/if Sony/PSN comes after those with hacked game saves there will be no distinction. All of you will suffer the same.
 
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