The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

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MUSC4EVER
Thats a good point about DiResta zippy_the_cat!

If he doesnt get a Ferrari seat then he will be stuck at Force India next season!

I didn't mean just in 2013. I meant he won't get a top drive ever. Presuming that Perez doesn't fall flat on his face, none of the top teams will have a vacancy in DiResta's sell-by window that they might look to him to fill. Hulkenberg could well be in the same boat. Their only hope is that Red Bull looks outside its young-driver program if/when Vettel and Webber leave.
 
We don't know that for sure. Have you forgotten about lotus? What about the possibility of Williams making it back to the front? Red bull will take the best available drivers if their own drivers aren't up to par.
 
We don't know that for sure. Have you forgotten about lotus? What about the possibility of Williams making it back to the front? Red bull will take the best available drivers if their own drivers aren't up to par.

Lotus seems like they have a pretty happy driver pairing. Wild card is the Kimi-to-Red-Bull rumors that attach themselves in some forums to the possibility of Vettel going to Ferrari.

Williams I assume will be running Maldonado/Bottas from 2013 forward. I also assume they're not going to make any great leap forward in the constructors. Sir Frank isn't getting any younger.

Someone in another forum (planetf1.com) questioned whether RB will even stay in the sport if Vettel and Webber leave. I too wonder about that but think the key stay-or-go decision is Newey's. He's been clear he wants to do something other than F1 before hitting retirement and the window for that is growing shorter. I don't think RB will stay at the top post-Newey, and if they're not at the top, why would they stay in F1?

DiResta is 26 and if he's not at a top team by the time he hits 29 he's not likely to get to a top team. So his window is 3 years. Where's his opportunity in that time, other than Ferrari and assuming that Perez and Hamilton work out at their new employers'?
 
I'm not really sure if i buy into this "Hamilton being given the No1 status at Mercedes" thing.... But i think if they were ever to find themselves in the position that McLaren are now, ie: LH being ahead of JB this far into the season, I think team orders would definitely come into play at Mercedes, rather than the usual McLaren mantra of "We let our drivers race each other".

Another thing.. I hear what people are saying (not only in this thread, but F1 sites in general), about Hamilton going to Mercedes is a bad move based solely on greed etc... Has anybody even considered that to some, money can infact be a great motivator in work related performance?
 
Is there any chance that Vettel will go to Ferrari in 2013 instead of the rumored 2014?
Nope Red Bull were the first team to decide there driver line up and he will remain at Red Bull most likely for a few more years. I'm not sure Ferrari would be a step forward for him at the moment.
 
Nope Red Bull were the first team to decide there driver line up and he will remain at Red Bull most likely for a few more years. I'm not sure Ferrari would be a step forward for him at the moment.

Have they? I know Vettel has a contract up to and including 2014. Webber was signed for 2013 during the summer.

Have they actually said that Vettel will definitely be with them in 2013? I don't remember all the Ferrari rumors a couple of months ago...

Someone in another forum (planetf1.com) questioned whether RB will even stay in the sport if Vettel and Webber leave. I too wonder about that but think the key stay-or-go decision is Newey's. He's been clear he wants to do something other than F1 before hitting retirement and the window for that is growing shorter. I don't think RB will stay at the top post-Newey, and if they're not at the top, why would they stay in F1?

I think that Toro Rosso hired James Key in preparation for the day when Adrian Newey leaves Red Bull. I'm definitely not alone on that idea, but it's nothing that will be confirmed until that day actually come.

I'm not really sure if i buy into this "Hamilton being given the No1 status at Mercedes" thing.... But i think if they were ever to find themselves in the position that McLaren are now, ie: LH being ahead of JB this far into the season, I think team orders would definitely come into play at Mercedes, rather than the usual McLaren mantra of "We let our drivers race each other".

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/102913
 
Nope Red Bull were the first team to decide there driver line up and he will remain at Red Bull most likely for a few more years. I'm not sure Ferrari would be a step forward for him at the moment.

I'd rather see Webber make the move. Guess I am in the minority.
 
At 1ness
Another thing.. I hear what people are saying (not only in this thread, but F1 sites in general), about Hamilton going to Mercedes is a bad move based solely on greed etc... Has anybody even considered that to some, money can infact be a great motivator in work related performance?

It doesn't matter. Lewis's performance isn't the problem. The problem is that Mercedes won't likely be able to give Lewis a car capable of winning a championship. This means that Lewis's move has nothing to do with championship aspirations and is solely about the pay check.
 
Japan 2011. As for Canada, Hamilton had been going backwards, lined up one pass and cocked it up spectacularly. Hardly "much quicker".

He started 2nd in Japan and lets be honest if had been any other year Hamilton would have been on pole. Prior to the attempted pass in Canada you could see he was gaining on Button quickly. When Button dominates an entire weekend in the dry like Hamilton sometimes has in the last few years at Mclaren then I'll accept that Jenson is as good as him, I'm going to stop now.
 
Have they? I know Vettel has a contract up to and including 2014. Webber was signed for 2013 during the summer.

Have they actually said that Vettel will definitely be with them in 2013? I don't remember all the Ferrari rumors a couple of months ago...

Yes they were the first team out of the whole grid. I think Christian Horner also mentioned it a few races ago.

I'd rather see Webber make the move. Guess I am in the minority.

I'd rather see them both remain in Red Bull and when Webber does retire I hope they give someone like Di Resta a chance rather than a driver from Toro Rosso.
 
I can figure out what everyone's solid evidence is that Mercedes can't put out a good car next year.
 
Hamilton you little traitor. McLaren raised you as a driver from karting to F1, and you leave over getting a slight pay cut. McLaren will always be a top team so moving over performance is a BS reason. McLaren had 2 good drivers and they treated you equally and fairly, they gave you both opportunities too win. I see this move to Merc as very selfish from Hamilton.

+1 👍
 
I can figure out what everyone's solid evidence is that Mercedes can't put out a good car next year.

2010, 2011 and 2012. Sure, they might make a sudden leap forward, but generally teams work within given performance bands and Merc's is lower than that of McLaren, RB and Ferrari.
 
...I'm pretty sure ferrari will regret this so much.
I'va kinda...predicted this, everyone in ferrari was really calm because perez was under contract with them, so they were like "He's not ready, too young, we'll wait some year.
Then someone in mclaren showed interest, perez says that he's not going to wait...it was obvious. Not for them maybe...
To be honest, they deserve this, Too much BS these years from montezemolo & co.

I'm not sure at all that this was a smart decision by Hamilton.
Sad for Schumacher but it was going to happen anyway. The sauber idea isn't that bad....
 
dsgerbc
With moves announced, should one bet on Button ending higher than LH in the Championship? ;)

:lol: Do you think all of Hamilton's car upgrades will "go missing"? :sly: "Sorry Lewis, it appears we have misplaced your front wing. And tires. And fuel. And pit crew. Good luck in the race."
 
I reckon a move to McLaren is a better career choice for Perez than a possible Ferrari move in the future. At least there he will be treated on equal terms to Button if his performances are good enough, whereas at Ferrari he would always be a number two driver. As odd as it sounds, I can't see why any driver with title ambitions would want to go to Ferrari, at least whilst Alonso is there.
 
It doesn't matter. Lewis's performance isn't the problem. The problem is that Mercedes won't likely be able to give Lewis a car capable of winning a championship. This means that Lewis's move has nothing to do with championship aspirations and is solely about the pay check.

Really? Well then i take it Mercedes are only in F1 to just give away money and not actually win anything... Mercedes just in it for the jolly along with Hamilton, Yep that makes sense.

[EDIT]

@ disinfected.

It's because they have crystal balls and can sees the Future.
 
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Really? Well then i take it Mercedes are only in F1 to just give away money and not actually win anything... Mercedes just in it for the jolly along with Hamilton, Yep that makes sense.

You're saying another thing. Yes Mercedes wants to win however some of us think that Mercedes dont have the developpement power to make a good car anymore. Each year they fall behind Mclaren/Ferrari/RB on developpement alone, even in 2009 when the car was still a brawn they couldnt keep up with RB developpement and Button nearly lost the big lead he had.

This year which supposed to be the good year for Mercedes, was catastrophic. They started well with Rosberg winning but couldnt keep up with the updates from Lotus/Ferrari/Mclaren/RB, they are fighting with Sauber and Williams atm for the constructor championship I think that that alone should show you why some of us dont believe in Mercedes anymore.

In 2014 I dont say, but in 2013 where the rules will be the same, I dont see how Mercedes will suddently make a jump and be a front runner.
 
You're saying another thing. Yes Mercedes wants to win however some of us think that Mercedes dont have the developpement power to make a good car anymore. Each year they fall behind Mclaren/Ferrari/RB on developpement alone, even in 2009 when the car was still a brawn they couldnt keep up with RB developpement and Button nearly lost the big lead he had.

This year which supposed to be the good year for Mercedes, was catastrophic. They started well with Rosberg winning but couldnt keep up with the updates from Lotus/Ferrari/Mclaren/RB, they are fighting with Sauber and Williams atm for the constructor championship I think that that alone should show you why some of us dont believe in Mercedes anymore.

In 2014 I dont say, but in 2013 where the rules will be the same, I dont see how Mercedes will suddently make a jump and be a front runner.

I'm not expecting much from Mercedes next year but this is Ross Brawn we are talking about so who knows. If they are willing to outbid Mclaren for Hamilton then they must believe that they will be competitive in the coming years otherwise they would be wasting there money.
 
Okay.. let me put it another way. Should we have dismissed Alonso's move to Ferrari as being strictly about the money, and nothing to do with having aspiration about winning further championships?

I know Ferrari may have been in a slightly better position at the time than Mercedes is now, but it seems pretty much the same train of thought if you ask me.
Yet i don't ever recall people saying: "Oh that greedy so-and-so Alonso going to Ferrari, just for the paycheck."

[EDIT]
Ferrari haven't won the WCC since 2008 (over 3yrs), or had a driver win the WDC since 2007 (over 4yrs).
So i ask again (apart from this year looking mighty promising for him). Is Alonso just in it for the paycheck?...
Or do you believe he had a bit of faith when it came to his decision?

Granted, Ferrari have been in the game for many many years, and have a proven track record, but i think it's incredibly short sighted to dismiss the potential of the Mercedes team after only 3yrs of their reintroduction to F1.
 
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Okay.. let me put it another way. Should we have dismissed Alonso's move to Ferrari as being strictly about the money, and nothing to do with having aspiration about winning further championships?

I know Ferrari may have been in a slightly better position at the time than Mercedes is now, but it seems pretty much the same train of thought if you ask me.
Yet i don't ever recall people saying: "Oh that greedy so-and-so Alonso going to Ferrari, just for the paycheck."

[EDIT]
Ferrari haven't won the WCC since 2008 (over 3yrs), or had a driver win the WDC since 2007 (over 4yrs).
So i ask again (apart from this year looking mighty promising for him). Is Alonso just in it for the paycheck?...
Or do you believe he had a bit of faith when it came to his decision?

Granted, Ferrari have been in the game for many many years, and have a proven track record, but i think it's incredibly short sighted to dismiss the potential of the Mercedes team after only 3yrs of their reintroduction to F1.

Let's not forget the predictions for Ferrari at the start of the season about how the car was so 'horrible.'
 
Okay.. let me put it another way. Should we have dismissed Alonso's move to Ferrari as being strictly about the money, and nothing to do with having aspiration about winning further championships?

I know Ferrari may have been in a slightly better position at the time than Mercedes is now, but it seems pretty much the same train of thought if you ask me.
Yet i don't ever recall people saying: "Oh that greedy so-and-so Alonso going to Ferrari, just for the paycheck."

[EDIT]
Ferrari haven't won the WCC since 2008 (over 3yrs), or had a driver win the WDC since 2007 (over 4yrs).
So i ask again (apart from this year looking mighty promising for him). Is Alonso just in it for the paycheck?...
Or do you believe he had a bit of faith when it came to his decision?

Granted, Ferrari have been in the game for many many years, and have a proven track record, but i think it's incredibly short sighted to dismiss the potential of the Mercedes team after only 3yrs of their reintroduction to F1.

But he did join Ferrari from a weaker team were as Hamilton appears to have taken a step down for the moment at least. I remember Alonso saying that it was his dream to drive for Ferrari when he signed for them, I found this quote just now "Driving a single-seater for the Prancing Horse is everybody's dream in F1, and now I have the chance to make this dream come true.."
 
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But he did join Ferrari from a weaker team were as Hamilton appears to have taken a step down for the moment at least. I remember Alonso saying that it was his dream to drive for Ferrari when he signed for them, I found this quote just now "Driving a single-seater for the Prancing Horse is everybody's dream in F1, and now I have the chance to make this dream come true.."

Yes i agree it was seen as a step-up to his then situation (that still doesn't answer my question though), but maybe Hamilton has a similar aspiration by going to race under Ross Brawn... Y'know the guy that helped guide Schumacher to win 5 WDC's.... That's kind of like a (Ron Burgundy :lol:) big deal if you ask me.
 
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Yes i agree it was seen as a step-up to his then situation (that still doesn't answer my question though), but maybe Hamilton has a similar aspiration by going to race under Ross Brawn... Y'know the guy that helped guide Schumacher to win 5 WDC's.... That's like a kind of big deal if you ask me.

I suppose, I think he worked at Benetton with Michael so 7 and Jenson's one. The Mercedes hasn't shown that level of dominance in three years, Shanghai is obviously the exception.
 
That's the thing with F1.. Tech experts try different things, sometimes they nail it.. sometimes they don't.
 
Brawn had a great concept for the car this season, but with the vagaries of the tires, they could never get it to work quite right. I thought that all that drama over tire wear and huge degradation in race pace was disappointing considering the amount of talent they'd pirated up to that point.

But Lewis might change things. Yes, he's hard on tires, but he's adaptable. Everyone picks on him as the tire killer, but in this season's mad tire scramble, he's often been ahead of the curve against Button on tire wear. If Button can't get the car to work, his tires go out much quicker than Hamilton's, and he'll start resorting to early pits. Hammy will happily knock off a dozen laps at pack-leading pace on "shredded" tires.

That's not something I've seen Rosberg do effectively this season. Having him pacing Schumi is like having Vettel pace Webber. It doesn't give the team as many points as it can get. Not to say Rosbeeg is terrible. He's much like Button in that he secures the team regular, dependable points. But Mercedes need someone willing to push it harder.

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Yup, Alonso totally joined Ferrari from a weaker team, whose car won most of the races in the one championship he ran it in. :D

-

Remember guys, the money is only a secondary issue. Underbidding Mercedes was basically McLaren's way of telling Lewis "we can live without you". Hamilton's accepting of the bid was his way of saying the feeling was mutual. And that was that.

McLaren has had the best car in the paddock all season long. But nobody tries harder to shoot themselves in the foot than they do.
 
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Okay.. let me put it another way. Should we have dismissed Alonso's move to Ferrari as being strictly about the money, and nothing to do with having aspiration about winning a championship?

I know Ferrari may have been in a slightly better position at the time than Mercedes is now, but it seems pretty much the same train of thought if you ask me.

Yet i don't ever recall people saying: "Oh that greedy so-and-so Alonso going to Ferrari, just for the paycheck."

[EDIT]
Ferrari haven't won the WCC since 2008 (over 3yrs), or had a driver win the WDC since 2007 (over 4yrs).
So i ask again (apart from this year looking mighty promising for him). Is Alonso just in it for the paycheck?...
Ferrari dominated the vast majority of last decade. Alonso was struggling for two years with Renault and obviously knows team inside out and potential for future. He knew Ferrari has a bigger budget and were finding there feet like McLaren in 2009 and showing signs going into 2010 they might be quite a bit stronger.

Hamilton is leaving a team that is currently got the fastest car, something he always wanted, is potentially set to do most number of poles he has done in a F1 season and maybe race wins and switching to a team who his replacement Sergio might overcome in WCC with Sauber. Mercedes even though have been progressing, the midfield teams around them have been progressing further it seems as can be seen by constant decline in WCC since 2009. McLaren have been showing the opposite, getting stronger and stronger in terms of relative pace since 2009. There is a reason why Button switched to McLaren after being with that team for so long and that is the hope of competing regularly for the WDC, Lewis Hamilton is doing the opposite of him. It might have been understandable to do this switch after 2009, or 2010 or 2011 but makes little sense now considering the position he finds himself in.

Even in 2009, Hamilton had the same number of poles as Button and Vettel, showing the strength of McLaren to overcome from being like a backmarker to pacesetter. That is a worry in itself as at the moment, a big loophole being only uncovered by them is looking like only chance for Lewis. It remains to be seen what the restructuring and resources will equate to but I think in long term, they will be doing well to match McLaren in the next 3 years who have been fine tuning there set up till now and as Michael Schumacher might say, all the ingredients have started to come together for the first time in a long time for McLaren. Sad to see him go in what looks like McLaren might have upper hand going into the next season with the regulations suiting them and hindering the team he is joining. He will probably leave Mercedes after enduring the building up years and getting fed up and might join Fernando Alonso at Ferrari. I think Fernando might want Lewis to join in the future.

I wonder if Lewis has been 'misled' by his management and Mercedes on prospects or he got to know something big that he is pinning his hopes on. Only last race he outqualified the fastest Mercedes by over 1.5 seconds and race pace wise, that was the kind of pace he was going faster than the Mercedes lap after lap and that kind of deficit Mercedes have to overcome in a space of a few months in order for 2013 to not be a write off. I hope for Lewis there is something that is promising Mercedes have and he can at least be in contention for wins but at the moment I can only see him mixing it up in the midfield while watching his former team potentially dominate and probably going his first season potentially without a race win or pole and thinking he could of had that with a sad face, a bit like 2011 and then realise what he had and how fortunate he was. Works reason seems a bit of nonsense to me, look how much more the works team has had failures than the ones that aren't. Imagine Lewis with the number of failures as Michael this year.

Anyway I hope I am wrong in this, will be strange to support McLaren and also Lewis next year, still rooting for him for this years title. Sergio is a Man Utd fan which is a plus for me and will either want him or Button to win it if Lewis is not in a competitive car. I wonder what the odds are going to for Sergio to be WDC and McLaren WCC for next year, if I was a betting man, I would go for that but I'm not.
 
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