The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

[Wardez]

To touch on the worries about Mercedes' chances of constructing a dominant package: maybe Lewis knows something only he and the core team do. Maybe during the talks they opened up a briefcase to show him the glowing golden contents, so to speak.

F1's going to be very different in 2014, and with the driver musical chairs game that's only just begun now, it's going to be the start of a totally new era. Mercedes may have something very, very clever in the works.

...

>.>

But I've overestimated them before. I just like sounding faux epic.

 

[Pupik]

McLaren has had the best car in the paddock all season long. But nobody tries harder to shoot themselves in the foot than they do.

Which is rather ironic; Ferrari used to be a top team which frequently dropped the ball at inopportune occasions. McLaren has picked up that unceremonious title lately.

Should be interesting to see how Hamilton and Perez do...now what happens at the red team?

The silly season is about to get strange.

 

[Nessy]

So what if it appears to some like he's doing the opposite of what Button did. Does that mean he's doing it solely for the money?.. Or maybe he has some faith in Ross Brawn to help him win more WDC'S in the long term.

Simple question really.

 

[Wardez]

Red team's keeping Massa for another year, then Vettel's going to hit up the Scuderia hard. If, for some reason, they don't use Massa, I feel like Bianchi's gonna get a one-year gig to fill in the gap. I can't think of any other good driver that would be willing to only do a year with how hard it is to secure a seat these days.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

So what if it appears to some like he's doing the opposite of what Button did. Does that mean he's doing it solely for the money?.. Or maybe he has some faith in Ross Brawn to help him win more WDC'S in the long term.

Simple question really.

I don't think he is solely doing it for money, I think the money offered by Mercedes is probably equal to McLaren, maybe just a bit of extra commercial freedom. Maybe it has something to do with keeping trophies and him maybe feeling undervalued by McLaren. It could have gone either way the last two days, should have bombarded him with twitter messages for him to stay and good reasons why. Also seems a bit of a strange time to be signing for a rival team while still fighting for WCC and WDC. I wonder if he had won last race, he probably might have stayed.

Still think it is a crazy idea and if he is allowed to keep the trophies at Mercedes, what if he never even wins the ones he wants such as wins and titles. Mercedes could quite easily have three shocking years, past history and present history of the team shows this is probably more likely than success. I think it will probably take longer than three years before they are on the path to success as they are still quite far away they where they need to be in strength in depth and know how compared to the other teams which are already bigger and stronger and are already working hand in hand. Like I mentioned before I hope I'm wrong and see a strong Mercedes car next year fighting for wins.

 

[Nessy]

@ Saidur_Ali.

I hope you're wrong too.

I think it just annoys me a bit, how we consider McLaren to be the best team (overall career win stats they are), but they've failed to win a WDC/WCC for quite some time now (can't just blame the drivers, it's a team effort).. Yet Mercedes have been in it for what?, 3yrs now and we're already writing off any prospect of success for them in the next 3yrs...

 

[TheCadabers]

Favourite driver leaving favourite team. I don't like this.

I still don't like Button, either.

halp

I feel your pain. :'(

 

[sems4arsenal]

Move wasn't about the Money for Lewis,Mclaren were ready to make him the highest paid Driver on the grid had he stayed.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

@ Saidur_Ali.

I hope you're wrong too.

I think it just annoys me a bit, how we consider McLaren to be the best team (overall career win stats they are), but they've failed to win a WDC/WCC for quite some time now (can't just blame the drivers, it's a team effort).. Yet Mercedes have been in it for what?, 3yrs now and we're already writing off any prospect of success for them in the next 3yrs...

McLaren are not really the best team if you are looking at stats. That is Ferrari then McLaren. However I'm talking about currently McLaren looking the strongest they have been since 1998/99 and 2007/2008 in terms of competitive order. They caught up Red Bull and overtook to a certain extent and I think they are looking strong to win this years constructors title, first for over a decade and with regulations suiting their car compared to the team Lewis is joining, it is looking like McLaren will have there strongest season yet next year even without my favourite driver. The current Mercedes team were Brawn and Honda team before and showed similar signs to what they are showing now in terms of weakness. I don't think any of these problems will be solved overnight, look how long McLaren have been without WCC and McLaren are finally in a position after more than 3 years with already a strong team since the last time they got close to a WCC.

I can't believe Martin Whitmarsh could not persuade Lewis given how strong McLaren are currently looking and past and present of the team he has now chosen to join. A team with worse reliability, now slower pit stops, slower development pace and worse base car on average, and generally not as good at adapting. Still suffering from tyre issues even from 2009.

I was surprised by how quickly McLaren had a replacement lined up, maybe it was a bit halfhearted attempt to keep Lewis in the last week or so by McLaren knowing Sergio was waiting in the wings for a lot cheaper cost and also being younger.

 

[otakukid96]

I'm honestly surprised about Perez's move to McLaren. I feel that he may actually become a world champion one year.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I was surprised by how quickly McLaren had a replacement lined up, maybe it was a bit halfhearted attempt to keep Lewis in the last week or so by McLaren knowing Sergio was waiting in the wings for a lot cheaper cost and also being younger.

I guess all this means the deals were made and signed already and for some reason they couldn't be disclosed.

When? Well, even Andrew Benson can't tell

Meanwhile, Hamilton's relationship with McLaren Group chairman Ron Dennis, the man who signed him up and who promoted him to the F1 team in 2007, has collapsed.

It was noticeable that after Hamilton's win in Italy earlier this month Dennis stood, arms-folded and stoney-faced, beneath the podium, not applauding once. Nor did Dennis don one of McLaren's 'rocket-red' victory T-shirts, or join in the champagne celebrations with the team once Hamilton had completed his media duties.

In Singapore last weekend, it seemed that McLaren still believed they had a chance of keeping Hamilton; at least that was the impression from talking to the team.

But did Dennis already know in Monza of Hamilton's decision to defect? Was Hamilton's sombre mood after that win a reflection of his wondering whether he had made the right decision?

Was Hamilton's ill-advised decision to post a picture of confidential McLaren telemetry on the social networking site Twitter on the morning of the Belgian Grand Prix, the weekend before Italy, the action of a man who had had enough and didn't care any more because he knew he was leaving?

When was the Mercedes deal actually finally signed?

Was it done before BBC Sport broke the story of it being imminent in the week leading up to the Italian race?

Or was it not inked, finally, until this week, on the basis that only now has the Mercedes board committed to new commercial terms with F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone?

In which case, was the gearbox failure that cost Hamilton a certain victory in Singapore, and effectively extinguished his title hopes for good, the straw that broke the camel's back?

My guess is: all was already decided at Monza. And as proof I present the very last couple of seconds from this video

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I guess all this means the deals were made and signed already and for some reason they couldn't be disclosed.

When? Well, even Andrew Benson can't tell




My guess is: all was already decided at Monza. And as proof I present the very last couple of seconds from this video

I guess the last two days were crucial going by what Martin has said.

Proof from Monza, he was thinking of doing a one-two with Jenson and McLaren next year :

 

[Seismica]

He started 2nd in Japan and lets be honest if had been any other year Hamilton would have been on pole. Prior to the attempted pass in Canada you could see he was gaining on Button quickly. When Button dominates an entire weekend in the dry like Hamilton sometimes has in the last few years at Mclaren then I'll accept that Jenson is as good as him, I'm going to stop now.

Hmm... Half the 2009 season maybe?

I agree, he doesn't have the raw pace of Hamilton, nor does he have the ability to work around setup problems as his driving style requires a car perfectly balanced for his preferences. However, he has many traits that surpass Hamilton's. On his day, Button is right up there with the best, even on raw pace. In that respect, he's a little like Webber.

 

[Tom]

Hmm... Half the 2009 season maybe?

You can't forget that Hamilton was in a far inferior car for the majority of the 2009 season.

 

[Seismica]

You can't forget that Hamilton was in a far inferior car for the majority of the 2009 season.

I was just making the point that Button can dominate a race weekend. No driver can dominate if they don't have a good car beneath them that is fundamentally fast; Hamilton's performances in the early part of 2009 are a great example of that. I probably misunderstood what Peasantslayer meant when he said dominate. I was just pointing out that he has done it in the past.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

As odd as it sounds, I can't see why any driver with title ambitions would want to go to Ferrari, at least whilst Alonso is there.

Cough ... Vettel ... cough.

Do folks really think Vettel would go there to play second fiddle to Alonso?

Or that Ferrari was recruiting Kubica, Webber and, if memory serves, at one point even Button to be Fernando's caddy?

This business about Alonso not wanting a strong second driver at Ferrari is getting old, and it's contradicted by the known evidence.

I wasn't following the sport in 2007 and so don't know all the ins and outs of what happened then. But, fact, the common factor in the two most famous F1 teammate blow-ups of all time (Prost-Senna and Alonso-Hamilton) is Ron Dennis as team principal. And there's a lot of evidence from the past two seasons that Lewis Hamilton can be hard to live with.

As an American, F1's No. 1/No. 2 driver business seems to me quite ... pointless. The top team in NASCAR, Hendrick Motorsports, runs four cars. Two of its drivers, Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon, have nine championships between them. The other two, Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Kasey Kahne, are contenders for the title this season. There ain't no No. 1 there, and the team seems to function quite well.

 

[AnaIog]

As an American, F1's No. 1/No. 2 driver business seems to me quite ... pointless.

It's all about that F1 drama.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

It's all about that F1 drama.

And NASCAR doesn't have drama?

 

[ghskilla]

As an American, F1's No. 1/No. 2 driver business seems to me quite ... pointless.

As a human being, it has a point, otherwise they wouldn't make a big deal out of it. If two drivers in a team fight, that can bring on the chance of both of them taking each other out. That means no points for a team. Either that, or tension between the two drivers, different setups, different upgrades. One might get happy, the other might not. I'm not the greatest at explaining this, but to be brief it simply eliminates competition within the team. A friendly competition is fine, but teams don't want another Senna-Prost (one without the dominant season) and continuously have tension between team mates. One has to support the other.

 

[F1 fan]

He started 2nd in Japan and lets be honest if had been any other year Hamilton would have been on pole.

He did start second to Sebastian. A driver who had won the previous two Japanese Grand Prix. Sebastian had won his first two races at the fearsome Suzuka circuit and is now considered to be very good there.

As for Canada, Lewis started ahead of Jenson, had a calamitous start, lined up an ill thought out pass (something he did frequently in 2011) with calamitous results. At this point, I'm done discussing this with you. First, you asked for a race where Jenson has been dominant in a Mclaren. I gave you an answer, then you changed your mind and asked for a dry race. I gave you an example. Now you say that isn't enough because Jenson only started second. On his day, Jenson is massively quick. He doesn't usually display the same raw pace as Lewis, but he does occasionally and when he doesn't have the pace, he makes up for it through tire preservation and using his brain in general. As a result, he's either close to Lewis' performance or ahead of him. Both drivers have strengths and weaknesses but you seem intent on writing Jenson off.

 

[Goshin2568]

Two things to say,

First, have none of you considered that after the telemetry-twitter scandal that McLaren might have just said "We don't really want you" to Hamilton? What if he didn't really have a choice and Mercedes was his best option?

Secondly, I'm wondering what the train of thought is behind all you Lewis Hamilton fans. I can't stand the guy. I seriously want to punch him in the face every time I see him or hear him talk. He seriously seems like the biggest douchebag in the known universe. You compare his attitude, his twitter, his interview answers etc. with someone like Webber or Button, and he is totally narcissistic and whiney. And he has diamond earings... Seriously?

 

[hawkeye122]

Because pre-2009 he was quite the driver, and hadn't really developed the attitude. We're fans of the old Lewis. Not the new whiny one.

He chooses to have diamond earrings? So what?

 

[Nessy]

Two things to say,

First, have none of you considered that after the telemetry-twitter scandal that McLaren might have just said "We don't really want you" to Hamilton? What if he didn't really have a choice and Mercedes was his best option?

Secondly, I'm wondering what the train of thought is behind all you Lewis Hamilton fans. I can't stand the guy. I seriously want to punch him in the face every time I see him or hear him talk. He seriously seems like the biggest douchebag in the known universe. You compare his attitude, his twitter, his interview answers etc. with someone like Webber or Button, and he is totally narcissistic and whiney. And he has diamond earings... Seriously?

No1: They may well have done, who knows?.. Though if they did say that, it would be strange for them to put an offer on the table.

No2: You don't like the guy, that's fine but is there really a need for you to get all whiney about it?...
Iv'e personally been a fan of his since he entered F1 and up to this current day (and quite possibly beyond). Train of thought? I think he's a great driver.

 

[Jiggins]

Two things to say,

First, have none of you considered that after the telemetry-twitter scandal that McLaren might have just said "We don't really want you" to Hamilton? What if he didn't really have a choice and Mercedes was his best option?

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3373/8119500/-McLaren-made-a-very-good-offer-

I think they wanted him.

 

[GTP_Ingram]

Cough ... Vettel ... cough.

Do folks really think Vettel would go there to play second fiddle to Alonso?

Or that Ferrari was recruiting Kubica, Webber and, if memory serves, at one point even Button to be Fernando's caddy?

This business about Alonso not wanting a strong second driver at Ferrari is getting old, and it's contradicted by the known evidence.

You've misunderstood my point. I wasn't saying that Alonso doesn't want a strong team mate, my point was that I don't believe that any of those drivers you have listed, including Vettel, are good enough to beat him over the course of a championship. In other words, any of those drivers would be better off driving for any team that Fernando isn't.

Vettel may think otherwise, and he might get the better of Alonso occasionally, but I can't see him beating Alonso frequently enough to finish ahead in the WDC, at which point he will become Fernando's 'caddy,' or more likely he will leave.

 

[TyrrellRacing]

Am I the only one still undecided on Perez? Saying he's a future world champion is a bit premature. He hasn't won a race yet. He's got the raw pace but is pretty inconsistent and unproven at the front.

 

[Nismo34]

Am I the only one still undecided on Perez? Saying he's a future world champion is a bit premature. He hasn't won a race yet. He's got the raw pace but is pretty inconsistent and unproven at the front.

All world champions started somewhere.. Look at Vettel back in the day at STR.. only won Monza in 2008 while sitting mid to bottom top ten and moved to Red Bull in 2009, got dominated by the BrawnGP then followed with 2 back to back driver's championship's in 2010 and 2011... I wouldnt doubt Perez at all...

 

[Jimlaad43]

Perez moving to McLaren has really made Ferrari and the Force India drivers the biggest losers. Ferrari were probably going to keep Perez waiting for the 2014 then sign him up. He will probably stay at Mclaren for a long time. Di Resta and Hulkenberg must have been happy when they heard that Hamilton had made a gap, but depressed when a gap either of them could have filled was taken by someone on another team's radar.
As for Schumacher, I either see him retiring or moving to one of the not-so-new teams as an experienced and well regarded development driver.

 

[Ardius]

I don't think Ferrari are a big loser as they are clearly looking to get Vettel for 2014. Ferrari can still get who they like really.

 

[F1 fan]

All world champions started somewhere.. Look at Vettel back in the day at STR.. only won Monza in 2008 while sitting mid to bottom top ten and moved to Red Bull in 2009, got dominated by the BrawnGP then followed with 2 back to back driver's championship's in 2010 and 2011... I wouldnt doubt Perez at all...

I wouldn't say he "got dominated" by Brawn GP. For a start, he was ahead of Rubens in the standings. As a matter of fact, had it not been for some poor reliability and also a few mistakes made by the then twenty one/two year old Vettel (in his first season in a front running car), he could be a three time world champion by now.

Normally I don't like talking about what could have been, but it's certainly unfair to say he was dominated by Brawn GP. He showed remarkable maturity for his age and he is continuing to mature as a driver. A lot of people are quick to put him down, but you can't deny that he's been pulling off passes this season that some didn't think he was capable of previously. Not the best overtaker on the grid, but he's certainly improving and he still has that blistering pace and the ability to manage his tires. I've been a fan of him since before he moved up to F1 and I predict he'll be unstoppable in a few years.