The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

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The Emperor doesn't think Perez is experienced enough for Ferrari.

That's the problem with Ferrari's development programme - they aren't using the drivers they do develop. For the past fifteen years, they've liked stability in their line-ups, with both drivers staying for several years at a time. They've done it with Irvine, Barrichello and Massa. If they release Massa for 2013, then I don't think they're going to want someone for a year or two. And if they don't take one of their development drivers, then those drivers aren't going to wait around forever for another seat to open up. They might as well leave the program and become free agents. Just look at Jules Bianchi - Luca has said he thinks Perez is inexperienced, and wouldn't take him after two years in the sport. Bianchi has no experience in Formula 1 at all, so he'll have to wait even longer. Assuming that Luca will only take a driver after at least three years in Formula 1, Bianchi would have to wait until 2016 at the earliest to drive for Ferrari. By then, they will probably have found someone else in the junior divisions (I'm tipping Raffaele Marciello myself) to groom for Formula 1.
 
RTSolvalou
for every season you don't have the best car, you get one season closer to having the right one, they could easily have the best car next year.
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While form is tough to judge, McLaren look to have the strongest car this year.
 
F1 fan
While form is tough to judge, McLaren look to have the strongest car this year.
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I'd disagree and say that Lotus/Bennetton/Renault/Whatevertheyarecalledthisweek/theblackandgoldteam have the best car, it's just that they have a shambolic team, a bull-headed team principal, one driver who is becoming an expert at throwing away opportunities and another driver who looks like he can go from on it to dreaming about ice cream in a heartbeat.
 
^I don't think thats particular fair to either driver considering Raikkonen has been well on the pace and competitive and Grosjean has suffered an awful lot of bad luck.
Debatable whether its team decisions that have stopped them winning - seeing as none of the teams seem to know what is going to happen with tyre degradation.

I think Lotus have just suffered a little of bit of bad luck so far, Monaco being a horror weekend for them.

I'm also not sure how you can say they have the best car yet criticise every part of the team - how would they have delivered these results consistently to give the indication that its a good car if they were not doing good enough. The drivers' were as much responsible for getting a 2-3 at Bahrain as the car was.

You know, I'm getting a little sick of this "its all the car" mentality. You can have a Brabham fan car and lose every race if you don't have the team to set it up, run the car properly or the drivers to keep it on the track and extract the performance. Attempting to pin results on just one aspect of the team ignores the fact you can't compete without all parts of the team working to at least some degree of quality. So I have hard time agreeing that they have a great car and everything else is to blame.
 
The Renault/Lotus/Toleman appears to have much better low-speed performance than almost anything else on the grid (apart from maybe the Red Bull) and it seems to not suffer the straightline disadvantage of the Red Bull either. I mean what are they doing with that car when Ferrari can eke out a victory? Or Williams for that matter? Surely some of the blame has to lie at the feet of lackluster team performance/strategy/iffy drivers? If Alonso, Schumacher, Vettel or Hamilton had been in a Renaultton this year they would've won two races already.

PS "luck" is a byproduct of preparedness and skill.
 
I don't see how you can reasonably accuse Grosjean of "throwing away opportunities" when his retirements in Australia and Monaco clearly weren't his fault.
 
^But they have been in contention for victory - at Bahrain their tyre wear was simply too high. And at Spain they would have been closer if not for their tyre wear.
These races were not held back by team strategy or driver errors. So I don't see how Hamilton or Alonso could have won these races.

How can a Williams win? Because they made the most of qualifying and the race with an overall good team, driver and car performance. Not one thing. Its not just the car or the driver or the team that achieves the win. Its the entire package.
I'd argue that Lotus are lacking a little bit in each area with there clearly being an issue with the car's tyre usage. Maybe some races they could have used a better strategy and some qualifying sessions the driver should have driven a better lap. But nothing that really points the blame at one thing.

Which is probably why Lotus have appeared the most consistent this season because they are not really weak in any area, they just suffer a little with tyre wear and the odd mistake.
 
prisonermonkeys
The Emperor doesn't think Perez is experienced enough for Ferrari.
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I think LdM never understood the concept of spotting a rising talent and getting him QUICK.

I think this says it all:

Luca di Montezemolo
“Villeneuve was amazing in terms of momentum. But then, his temperament would cost him points and that would affect his standing at the end of the season. Alonso, especially in the races, is the best driver in the world.” This comparison of the unforgettable Gilles and one of the two current Scuderia drivers came from Ferrari President Luca di Montezemolo on the day dedicated to the thirtieth anniversary of the death of the Canadian driver. “Gilles gave the public what they wanted. And he did not care about the championship, he drove each race as it came. Maybe I was less close to him than I was to my other drivers such as Lauda, Regazzoni or Reutemann. I recall when Enzo Ferrari told me he’d spotted a youngster with great temperament and talent who raced snowmobiles in Canada. He had a pre-contract with McLaren, but Ferrari wanted to bring a breath of fresh air into the team. He was an extraordinary driver and human being. We must not be prisoners to the past, but if one looks at football, F1, politics, Italy back then, one can see that human relations were different and better. But we look ahead and to have Gilles’ old mechanics here alongside Alonso and Massa shows that Ferrari thinks of the future while looking to the past, which is unique in the world.” Asked about the chances of hiring drivers who maybe lack discipline but have plenty of heart, Montezemolo replied, “With F1 the way it is today, there would be no place at Ferrari for an undisciplined driver.
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Sour grapes, sad to see him have a "dig" at Gilles in such a occasion. Luca never got along with Gilles and vice-versa, he was Enzo's protegé. And I say, thank God good ole Enzo was in charge back then and Gilles went to Ferrari. Passion is passion and the roman patrician upper class twit that is Montezemolo is no, never was, and never will be an Enzo Ferrari. For good and for bad.

Anyway, I digress. I do have sympathy for Massa, but I think Ferrari needs new blood, and new blood from a guy that isn't afraid to take risks and challenge the team leader.


PS - This "team leader" nonsense, btw, is the total opposite of what Ferrari (Enzo) used to do. If anything, he was criticized for making his drivers race each other and be more rivals than friends.
 
Hun200kmh
I think LdM never understood the concept of spotting a rising talent and getting him QUICK.
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The Emperor won't take a risk on a driver without a pedigree, because heaven forbid he might not live up to expectations.

After all, Luca is using his position in Ferrari as a platform to get himself elected to parliament. Every decision he makes for the team is made because it suits his political agenda.
 
This might sound insane, but if Hamilton were to leave McLaren, I think there is a reasonable chance he could wind up at Williams.

When Williams were chasing after Kimi Raikkonen, they demonstrated that they were looking for a big-name driver. When Raikkonen went to Lotus, they had to settle for Senna. But I think Hamilton could be a good fit for them, because Maldonado and Senna are wasting the potential of the FW34, and Hamilton has that rare ability to drive a car beyond the limits other drivers find. If Williams can keep up the development of the FW34 into the FW35, then I think it would certainly be a car Hamilton would be capable of winning in.

The big issue is money, of course. It is believed that Williams want to put Valterri Bottas into the car, and if they were to keep him, that means Pastor Maldonado would have to move over to make way for Hamilton. And with it, a $40 million revenue stream dries up (though there is talk that the contract between Williams and PDVSA only states that Williams have to "consider" Venezuelan drivers; they don't actually have to sign one up if they don't think that driver fits the team - that said, if Maldonado got a drive elsewhere, the money would probably go with him).

But I think Williams could overcome that if they pitched it right. If they offered Hamilton the chance to build the team around him, and then announced to the world that they wanted Lewis Hamilton to be the man who restored the team to their former glory, then I don't think they'd have much trouble securing sponsorship.

The big deciding factor in all of this, though, would be whether or not Hamilton is willing to take a chance if he leaves McLaren. Despite the endless speculation, I just can't see him at Red Bull, and outside McLaren, there is no real home for him - unless he thinks a team might be a diamond in the rough.
 
Cowboys965
He's better off in IndyCar.
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Well yes, but a man can dream. To me, Sato is the definition of a Ferrari driver - fast, extremely aggressive and always unlucky.

Williams cannot afford Hamilton's pay - with or without Maldonaldo's money. If Williams really wanted to keep the best drivers for the team, they would have kept Barrichello - cheap, still quick and an extremely safe pair of hands to ensure one car always delivers the results it should do.
 
I cant see Hamilton racing for free. If they boot Senna (Not sure how much he brings), and they got at least ONE big company on board to sponsor them, and still keep Maldonado, then they might be able to pull it off.

But how can they continue to develop the car if they DONT get a sponsor? Lewis would get there, they would lose money having to A. Pay Him and B. Not getting cash from Senna. It would be a massive risk.

Plus, does Williams really want 2 aggressive drivers? Especially 2 who might still be at ends due to Spa last year... I can't see both finishing a race, since they both have a bit of a temper. I think a team needs a Balls-y driver (Alonso, Hamilton) and a Consistent, level-headed tyre God (Button, Webber, Barichello, Kovalinen). Both Maldonado and Hamilton on one team sounds like a bit of a liability.

But I will concede, there isn't much of anywhere else Hamilton could potentially go. Genii/Lotus/Renault/Benneton/Toleman maybe? They sounds annoyed with Raikkonen, and may want a bit more of a proven driver who has driven at the sharp end of the field the past 3 years.

One thing is certain, if Lewis is too picky about his seat if he leaves McLaren, he will get dissolved into the WEC or even worse... The Andros Ice Trophy. And the sport will have lost arguably the best driver, and certainly the best overtaker in recent times.

And then McLaren... They have very little to gain by dropping Hamilton.
If they drop Lewis, and Button retires, who will sit in the hot seats? Di Resta isn't exactly setting the world on fire, Hulkenberg spent a year on the Bench, and Rosberg probably wont leave Merc anytime soon. Grosjean seems content at Lotus. They likely wont take Kovalinen or Raikkonen or Alonso back. Webber is old. Vettel has his eyes on Ferrari(I think?). I would assume their best shot is Perez, but he is sort of with Ferrari right now. Maldonado is still a bit of a wild card, and Kamui would be worse than Lewis as far as risks go.
And come on, they won't bring Paffet out of DTM, he has very little running.
Turvey will probably need a year back in GP2 before he's ready to return from his run in the GT3 class (Sounds a bit Grosjean to me)
McLaren have more to lose by dropping Hamilton than holding on to him for the time being. Until they get Turvey some more single-seater time, or someone crawls out of the woodwork in GP2, McLaren have very few driver options. The Lewis-Jenson combo is about as good as it gets right now.
 
hawkeye122
I cant see Hamilton racing for free. If they boot Senna (Not sure how much he brings), and they got at least ONE big company on board to sponsor them, and still keep Maldonado, then they might be able to pull it off.

But how can they continue to develop the car if they DONT get a sponsor? Lewis would get there, they would lose money having to A. Pay Him and B. Not getting cash from Senna. It would be a massive risk.
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Do you honestly think that if Williams came out and said announced that Hamilton was going to drive for them because he was the best-equipped driver to get them back to the front of the grid, that sponsors wouldn't be falling all over themselves to plaster their name over the car?

The way I see it, there are Williams drivers (like Maldonado), and there are Williams drivers (like Prost). There was a time when Williams were the team a driver absolutely had to race for, and that his career wouldn't be complete if he didn't drive for them. Williams obviously want to get back to this part of this history, but there are only really three drivers on the grid who inspire that same excitement - Alonso, Hamilton and Koabayshi. If Lewis Hamilton had been racing in the early 1990s, he absolutely would have driven for Williams at some point. And now in the early 2010s, he is one of the few drivers who could maximise Williams' promise. Martin Brundle commented that Maldonado's win in Spain would go down as a popular victory, but imagine the reception if Lewis Hamilton was in the car.

I know I've made some silly predictions in the past, but I think there is genuine potential here. I honestly wouldn't be saying if it I didn't believe it.

hawkeye122
But I will concede, there isn't much of anywhere else Hamilton could potentially go. Genii/Lotus/Renault/Benneton/Toleman maybe? They sounds annoyed with Raikkonen, and may want a bit more of a proven driver who has driven at the sharp end of the field the past 3 years.
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Nah. I think Lotus will really start to back Grosjean once we're into the second half of the season, especially if he's in front of Raikkonen in the points standings. I can't see Hamilton fitting well in that climate.

hawkeye122
And then McLaren... They have very little to gain by dropping Hamilton.
If they drop Lewis, and Button retires, who will sit in the hot seats? Di Resta isn't exactly setting the world on fire, Hulkenberg spent a year on the Bench, and Rosberg probably wont leave Merc anytime soon. Grosjean seems content at Lotus. They likely wont take Kovalinen or Raikkonen or Alonso back. Webber is old. Vettel has his eyes on Ferrari(I think?). I would assume their best shot is Perez, but he is sort of with Ferrari right now. Maldonado is still a bit of a wild card, and Kamui would be worse than Lewis as far as risks go.
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I don't think Button will retire any time soon. He's in a slump at the moment, but of all the front-runners, he's dealt with some seriously disappointing cars in the past, and he says it is helping him stay positive. He knows the car has potential. He knows it can be worse - when he was at Honda in 2007, he said that he'd turn into the corner with no idea what would happen. But it doesn't matter if Hamilton leaves - Button is still under contract for 2013 and 2014.

If Hamilton does leave, then I imagine that McLaren would turn to the Sauber duo first, or maybe try and lure Nico Rosberg away from Mercedes. Some of them have contracts, but contracts can be bought out.
 
I think it all hinges on this year. If Williams score a couple more podiums, then yes, I'm sure sponsors would throw money and stickers at Williams as hard as they could if they announced Hamilton.

But do you remember in 200...9? 10? When we all thought Force India had turned a corner(With Fisichella and Sutil), and were going to be contending for a win? Where are they now? Further down the field than last year, and still struggling. My point is Williams may do well this year, but nothing stops them from plummeting over the winter. They would have to sign Hamilton right when the season ends to insure sufficient funding for the winter, to keep pushing the car.

It's a massive risk, as I said. But if they pull it off, I'm sure they could secure several wins in their first season. I can see that being a team to beat.
 
Italian journalist Giorgio Terruzzi reports Vettel has agreed a 3yr deal with Ferrari from 2014. http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/formula1/formula1/articoli/84848/ferrari-con-vettel-ce-laccordo.shtml

Courtesy of @f1enigma https://twitter.com/#!/f1enigma

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Submerged
Vettel to Fezza?

Er, why? Doesn't Red Bull give him enough cash and help?
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Ferrari have said they would like Vettel to drive for them one day. Vettel has said he would like to drive for Ferrari. It's just a question of when he will drive for them, not if he will.

The really challenging question is who will drive for Ferrari in 2013.
 
prisonermonkeys
The really challenging question is who will drive for Ferrari in 2013.
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Sergio Perez. Its almost as "a done deal" as Alonso was for Ferrari circa 2008/2009. Everyone knew it was going to happen.
I'm sure the statements saying they wouldn't take him at the moment as he's too aggressive is just the usual talk to force negogiations. Maybe Perez wants more money than Ferrari wants to pay him or maybe Ferrari don't want to give him a long-term contract, who knows really - but I think the comments were effectively a "well we don't care who you are - we're Ferrari" kind of message.

I wouldn't be surprised by Vettel switching though it would be unexpected as Red Bull are still strong.

What I'd expect:
-keeping Massa (well he's back on pace now all of a sudden, maybe too little too late but well we'll see).
-hiring Webber for a year before retirement
-Perez

Anything else I'd be pretty surprised by. There are some random ones like Buemi, d'Ambrosio and Alguesuari sat around waiting for such a drive...
 
When have Ferrari ever taken a driver for a year? They've probably had the most consistently-stable line-up for the past twenty years. Kimi Raikkonen had the shortest tenure with them, and even he did three seasons. I can't imagine that Ferrari would take Perez for a year and then drop him - especially when he is highly-rated in the paddock; he'd be a major coup for any of the other big teams even without a year at Ferrari. So unless Ferrari think Alonso will either leave the team or leave the sport in 2014, I can't see them taking Perez in 2013.

I think Ferrari will either try and buy Vettel out of his contract for 2013, or keep Massa. They're the only options that make sense.
 
I bet no one see's this coming but Kimi Raikkonen to Red Bull to replace Webber if Webber decides to leave? Vettel and Raikkonen are good friends. If Vettel could recommend anyone it would be Raikkonen. i dont know the details of Raikkonens Lotus contract. And Lotus already has the talent of Grosjean.
 
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