The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

[Samus]

My take on it is the Raikkonen offer is to replace Massa, not Alonso. That's if it's even true. Yes I certainly think Alonso should stay at least for next year, Ferrari have as good a chance as any to prove to Alonso they have a grip on the new rules and can give him a car to win races.

The only problem with that is if the Ferrari is a turkey again next year Alonso's options in 2015 are going to be more limited, the Red Bull seat will be gone unless as I said before Vettel does a swap with him. He'd have to look at whichever team is up there although of the current top teams back to Enstone F1 for a third time seems the only possibility. He likely wouldn't go back to McLaren even if they were performing well and a seat is unlikely to be available at Mercedes.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

My take on it is the Raikkonen offer is to replace Massa, not Alonso. That's if it's even true. Yes I certainly think Alonso should stay at least for next year, Ferrari have as good a chance as any to prove to Alonso they have a grip on the new rules and can give him a car to win races.

I kind of figured that it was for Massa, which usually is what comes up this time of the year for the past three years. Yet I wanted to attack the elephant in the room everyone was on about LDM vs Alonso, I think you are probably right though.

The only problem with that is if the Ferrari is a turkey again next year Alonso's options in 2015 are going to be more limited, the Red Bull seat will be gone unless as I said before Vettel does a swap with him. He'd have to look at whichever team is up there although of the current top teams back to Enstone F1 for a third time seems the only possibility. He likely wouldn't go back to McLaren even if they were performing well and a seat is unlikely to be available at Mercedes.

I don't see how they could manage a poor car really, with Rory being an actual key person to the build and not an advisory figure as before, I think the car will be one to watch along with the other hands working on it. This is the same reason I think MGP should be feared and that RBR will be in the fight but have a tough time due to not as much man power. I don't see them getting rid of Rosberg at MGP, and to be fair, I don't see McLaren getting rid of Jenson or Alonso wanting to deal with Ron again.

So in reality let's say Ferrari get rid of Alonso, and he goes to RBR and Kimi stays at Lotus to try them out for another year or two...who does Ferrari really have?

 

[Samus]

I don't see how they could manage a poor car really, with Rory being an actual key person to the build and not an advisory figure as before, I think the car will be one to watch along with the other hands working on it. This is the same reason I think MGP should be feared and that RBR will be in the fight but have a tough time due to not as much man power. I don't see them getting rid of Rosberg at MGP, and to be fair, I don't see McLaren getting rid of Jenson or Alonso wanting to deal with Ron again.

Well you never know but they do certainly seem to have a better chance. I think the engines will be key really, I'm sure we will see a few disparities in them once we learn more.

The only possibility with McLaren is that he wouldn't actually be dealing with Ron again, he's firmly on the McLaren cars side of things now with little to no F1 input.

So in reality let's say Ferrari get rid of Alonso, and he goes to RBR and Kimi stays at Lotus to try them out for another year or two...who does Ferrari really have?

A good question really, they would need a new leader and I don't see Massa being that person. The crazy silly season rumour would be poaching Hamilton but I think more realistically they'd just have to get someone like Hulkenburg and hope they can groom him into the leader they want.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well you never know but they do certainly seem to have a better chance. I think the engines will be key really, I'm sure we will see a few disparities in them once we learn more.

The only possibility with McLaren is that he wouldn't actually be dealing with Ron again, he's firmly on the McLaren cars side of things now with little to no F1 input.

I saw that, since he is basically the envoy for the road car division, but I also kept hearing rumors last year that Ron had some influence on why Lewis was irritated with McLaren, and which made him leave for Mercedes. As for the other part, you're right it will be wait and see and we still have plenty to go for this season, so i shouldn't rush it.

A good question really, they would need a new leader and I don't see Massa being that person. The crazy silly season rumour would be poaching Hamilton but I think more realistically they'd just have to get someone like Hulkenburg and hope they can groom him into the leader they want.

I don't see Lewis leaving either, but let's say every other major team keeps their world champion and RBR gain Alonso. I agree Hulk is the only person I can see at Ferrari and maybe Jules due to driving the wheels off the Marussia at times. I really think Ferrari don't have as many options as they think they do.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

So in reality let's say Ferrari get rid of Alonso, and he goes to RBR and Kimi stays at Lotus to try them out for another year or two...who does Ferrari really have?

Paul Di Resta?

If they get rid of Massa then maybe Hulkenberg?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Paul Di Resta?

If they get rid of Massa then maybe Hulkenberg?

I don't think PDR is anywhere near Ferrari's radar, maybe Mercedes backed engine teams but that's about it for him.

 

[Samus]

I doubt Di Resta is on anyone's radar to be honest.

 

[Peasantslayer]

I doubt Di Resta is on anyone's radar to be honest.

He keeps talking himself up and so do some of the pundits but the fact remains that he is yet to beat a team mate over a season and he hasn't had any moments that have made you sit up like Bottas in Canada Q3 for example.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

He hasn't had any moments that have made you sit up like Bottas in Canada Q3 for example.

His potential 3rd place in Bahrain surprised me.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Who is Bottas?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Who is Bottas?

Exactly, I mean good on him for the Q3, but that had more to do with an opportunistic set up as much as his driving.

 

[Peasantslayer]

His potential 3rd place in Bahrain surprised me.

Wasn't 3rd though was it.

Exactly, I mean good on him for the Q3, but that had more to do with an opportunistic set up as much as his driving.

Good setup or not that car is slow.

 

[JGreens]

So in reality let's say Ferrari get rid of Alonso, and he goes to RBR and Kimi stays at Lotus to try them out for another year or two...who does Ferrari really have?

Which is why I keep thinking letting Perez go to Mclaren is a disastrous deal for all three involved, he isn't a calm, reliable points scorer that Mclaren like (Personally feel Mclaren #2 is either Hulkenberg or PDR's), his time at Mclaren hasn't gone well so far (Button whinging about how actually, you know, ambitious Perez is) or the general opinion that can you honestly see Perez in a position for a genuine attempt at the WDC with support from Mclaren? (Probably not).

Perez fits at Ferrari, he'll learn/improve 100% faster with Alonso as mentor than Button.

I know Kobayashi is knocking around in the WEC, but he'll need another storming year in a lower car (Like Force India or something) to become an appropriate candidate.

I was also going to mention - as a long shot - new boy Gutiérrez, but then looked at the figures and he's getting trounced by Hulkenberg...who's German, young(ish), quick and reliable - history repeats itself you know...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Which is why I keep thinking letting Perez go to Mclaren is a disastrous deal for all three involved, he isn't a calm, reliable points scorer that Mclaren like (Personally feel Mclaren #2 is either Hulkenberg or PDR's), his time at Mclaren hasn't gone well so far (Button whinging about how actually, you know, ambitious Perez is) or the general opinion that can you honestly see Perez in a position for a genuine attempt at the WDC with support from Mclaren? (Probably not).

In defense of Button he has had his experience with good drivers (WDC's at that) being too eager and running into him. So imagine how he feels when it comes to a more rookie driver. I don't think Button is trying to squander Perez's ambition, however Perez has been known not to make the most sound choices on the track. I don't think Perez is ready for Ferrari, but at Sauber he did seem to take a lead role so he might just be decent enough for Ferrari.

Perez fits at Ferrari, he'll learn/improve 100% faster with Alonso as mentor than Button.

We are phrasing this in the realm of Ferrari not having Alonso.

I know Kobayashi is knocking around in the WEC, but he'll need another storming year in a lower car (Like Force India or something) to become an appropriate candidate.

We've seen his quality in a top tier or high mid range car than last years Sauber, having him stay in a lower car longer probably means he'll never be ready for a higher team.

I was also going to mention - as a long shot - new boy Gutiérrez, but then looked at the figures and he's getting trounced by Hulkenberg...who's German, young(ish), quick and reliable - history repeats itself you know...

To be fair to Gutierrez, Hulk has the experience that Esteban doesn't and will need a bit to gain. However, even when he has come up to speed in the F1 world I don't see him being as fast as Hulkenberg ever so to be honest I don't see why he'd have a shot at all. I don't see McLaren letting Perez go and they'll probably run him next year and if he can't perform then he'll be like HK.

 

[Ardius]

I know Kobayashi is knocking around in the WEC, but he'll need another storming year in a lower car (Like Force India or something) to become an app

I genuinely think Kobayashi has done enough to warrant a shot, even if only for one season. He had some awful luck (such as qualifying front row at Spa only to be collected by the Grosjeanocalypse) and suffered in too many races because of terrible strategies by Sauber (which Hulk is finding out about now).

But really, if I was Ferrari, I'd take Hulkenburg and Maldonado for an extremely cheap and quick line-up.
Or perhaps Hulkenburg and Grosjean.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I genuinely think Kobayashi has done enough to warrant a shot, even if only for one season. He had some awful luck (such as qualifying front row at Spa only to be collected by the Grosjeanocalypse) and suffered in too many races because of terrible strategies by Sauber (which Hulk is finding out about now).

But really, if I was Ferrari, I'd take Hulkenburg and Maldonado for an extremely cheap and quick line-up.
Or perhaps Hulkenburg and Grosjean.

Agree with you on the Kobayashi idea and even Grosjean. Which was my point anyways with Kobayashi, he did some good stuff in the handful or races at Toyota before they shut down, and had great races with Sauber and helped them build up to the car they had last year. I think Kamui should have a shot at a top tier.

 

[JGreens]

We are phrasing this in the realm of Ferrari not having Alonso.

I was thinking more along the lines of Ferrari keeping Alonso but replacing (Well, it is practically common knowledge) Massa's #2 seat.

Or perhaps Hulkenburg and Grosjean.

Which could very well end up being Lotus's line up if Kimi goes to RBR and Ferrari don't offer Hulk the #2 seat. But who would you rather has #1 seat?
That'll be a wildcard line up in a new era.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I was thinking more along the lines of Ferrari keeping Alonso but replacing (Well, it is practically common knowledge) Massa's #2 seat.

I know where you are coming from we all do, but the hypothetical we were running is who could step up to the plate if Ferrari lose Fernando. If you don't know Ferrari have been confrontational with Alonso after Budapest. Thus they run the risk of running another WDC driver out of the team due to their attitude as I mentioned just a few others (ex. Niki Lauda).

Which could very well end up being Lotus's line up if Kimi goes to RBR and Ferrari don't offer Hulk the #2 seat. But who would you rather has #1 seat?
That'll be a wildcard line up in a new era.

I don't know why you keep feeling so sure that Kimi is going to RBR, because of 1 good week of press pushing the agenda? Or Vettel saying he would be happy with the move and enjoy the competition? I think Fernando isn't out of the running, the only reason we talk about Kimi is due to the fact that he actually acknowledged that they talked to him.

 

[GTPorsche]

Looks like Ferrari want Bianchi to move up to a midfield car, and Kevin Magnussen could most likely replace him in the Marussia seat for 2014.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/magnussen-could-replace-bianchi-in-2014-report/

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Looks like Ferrari want Bianchi to move up to a midfield car, and Kevin Magnussen could most likely replace him in the Marussia seat for 2014.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/magnussen-could-replace-bianchi-in-2014-report/

I don't see Lewis leaving either, but let's say every other major team keeps their world champion and RBR gain Alonso. I agree Hulk is the only person I can see at Ferrari and maybe Jules due to driving the wheels off the Marussia at times. I really think Ferrari don't have as many options as they think they do.

Who said that now

Let the grooming years begin.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

Looks like Ferrari want Bianchi to move up to a midfield car, and Kevin Magnussen could most likely replace him in the Marussia seat for 2014.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/magnussen-could-replace-bianchi-in-2014-report/

Thing is, if Kimi goes to RBR and Alonso stays put. Where would Bianchi go?

He couldn't jump straight up to Ferrari after one rookie season, I know Kimi jumped to McLaren in '02 but I doubt Ferrari would do the same. That is if Massa leaves Ferrari or retires altogether.

 

[SilverArrow]

Thing is, if Kimi goes to RBR and Alonso stays put. Where would Bianchi go?

He couldn't jump straight up to Ferrari after one rookie season, I know Kimi jumped to McLaren in '02 but I doubt Ferrari would do the same. That is if Massa leaves Ferrari or retires altogether.

I'm pretty sure "midfield car" implies Sauber.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Thing is, if Kimi goes to RBR and Alonso stays put. Where would Bianchi go?

He couldn't jump straight up to Ferrari after one rookie season, I know Kimi jumped to McLaren in '02 but I doubt Ferrari would do the same. That is if Massa leaves Ferrari or retires altogether.

Why? Do you really think it would be that crazy to have Ferrari do something like this, they really don't have very many options other than Hulkenburg or Kamui. Also what team Bianchi could move into is a good question, it wouldn't be STR for obvious reasons. They are a RedBull development program and more importantly they wont run Ferrari engines after this year. So that leaves Sauber or he could stay at Marussia and hope that the Ferrari engine improves the car.

I'm pretty sure "midfield car" implies Sauber.

Exactly...which implies that Hulk will move into a top tier team if Bianchi is confirmed for a mid tier team. I doubt any of this will happen till Suzuka or Austin.

 

[HKS racer]

I've heard Kimi is still interested to come back in Ferrari.
I really hope so, if we can't win the Driver Champ with Kimi we would surely have chance for the Constructors.

I just hope the "not so smart" duo Montezemolo Domenicali are finally changing their mind and consdireng the Iceman once again, seems like they are offering more money than RB. For the pricing horse is time to stop being lame confirming Massa once again, or Bianchi.. WTH. We need another top driver toghether with Alo, the only one available is Kimi. If he goes to Redbull it's gameover for everyone: no point even calculating the Constructors Champ, it will goes to RB period.

I'm not sure how really happy Sebastian is. I bet he would much prefer Ricciardo as team mate but he will never admit that.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I've heard Kimi is still interested to come back in Ferrari.
I really hope so, if we can't win the Driver Champ with Kimi we would surely have chance for the Constructors.

I just hope the "not so smart" duo Montezemolo Domenicali call the Iceman once again. Stop being lame confirming Massa once again, or Bianchi.. WTH. We need Kimi. If he goes to Redbull it's gameover for everyone. I'm not sure how really happy Sebastian is. I bet he would much prefer Ricciardo as team mate but he will never admit that.

Vettel is the one pushing for Kimi, as has been pointed out in this thread. Also what is wrong with Bianchi? Why would Kimi be able to bring Ferrari closer to WDC or even WCC than Alonso, and how exactly would it be game over if he went to RBR? These are the questions...

 

[HKS racer]

Vettel is the one pushing for Kimi, as has been pointed out in this thread. Also what is wrong with Bianchi? Why would Kimi be able to bring Ferrari closer to WDC or even WCC than Alonso, and how exactly would it be game over if he went to RBR? These are the questions...

Are you serious? Kimi is light year faster than Bianchi. And aobut consistence Look how many points Kimi can score in a season.

If he goes to RB, Newey really needs to sabotate him if he want Kimi doesn't fight Seb for the Driver Champ.

 

[GTPorsche]

Hulk is already confirmed to leave Sauber at the end of the season, or am I wrong about that?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Are you serious? Kimi is light year faster than Bianchi. And aobut consistence Look how many points Kimi can score in a season.

If he goes to RB, Newey really needs to sabotate him if he want Kimi doesn't fight Seb for the Driver Champ.

What is with these tin foil hat conspiracies? Why would Newey destroy a WDC battle between Kimi and Sebastian? Also, Bianchi is a young driver proving he is adjusting well to F1 and could be very quick if giving the right equipment, I don't see how you can compare a rookie driver in his first F1 season to a WDC with tons of years. Also I'm not saying Jules would take over and be the leader at Ferrari...

What about Alonso and RBR?

Hulk is already confirmed to leave Sauber at the end of the season, or am I wrong about that?

He says those were just rumors and never claimed such daft rubbish. Yet that doesn't mean he wont leave if given a better option.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

I'm pretty sure "midfield car" implies Sauber.

I don't see Hulkenburg leaving Sauber, mainly because he's there best driver and I doubt he'll be on any other teams' radar. He's been really mediocre this year, I know the car is poor but he's hardly been driving the wheels off it like Bianchi.

Why? Do you really think it would be that crazy to have Ferrari do something like this, they really don't have very many options other than Hulkenburg or Kamui. Also what team Bianchi could move into is a good question, it wouldn't be STR for obvious reasons. They are a RedBull development program and more importantly they wont run Ferrari engines after this year. So that leaves Sauber or he could stay at Marussia and hope that the Ferrari engine improves the car.

Out of those two you mentioned, I'd say Kamui is most likely for the seat. Bianchi couldn't really move anywhere.
Caterham would be pointless, STR is a no-no, Sauber, no due to Hulkenburg not likely to move and the Russian kid probably coming in next year. FI, maybe if Di Resta moves on, but as with Hulkenburg I doubt he'll be moving anywhere, his performances this year have been the best I've seen from him but I'm not a team owner. Williams I doubt he'll go to after their performances. That leaves Lotus. Kimi is most likely to go to RBR so they could bring Bianchi up but they don't have any ties with Ferrari and I doubt they'd be pleased about that.

 

[Wardez]

Hulk would do very well in a top team. He's definitely on the radar. He's just had so much back luck falling into teams at the wrong time. I really hope he gets a better chance.

About Kimi, you guys gotta realize that a lot of this stuff is posturing. These rumors and such work to the advantage of different teams' interest. All gamemanship.

For example, by Ferrari "offering" this seat to Kimi publicly, they will raise Kimi's price by demand. They've been at this game more than long enough.

Alonso's effectively trying to get Ferrari to step up their game, and at the same time raising his own price, by talking about wanting another car and such. It's a market through and through. Ferrari's just reacting to everything.