The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

[Wardez]

Horner's asked about the rumor, and he doesn't deny:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/jul/28/red-bull-fernando-alonso

Also brings up the question of a "swap" as you suggested Simon. Interesting piece in the Guardian.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

Fernando might be thinking that his best years will soon be behind him and he can either finish as a 2 time champion whilst Vettel racks up the titles or go to Red Bull and try to prove he's the better driver.

I agree with that, I'm sure if Fernando was offered the seat he'd take it if he wanted more championships and a showdown with Vettel. But don't forget that RBR is practically Vettel's team now and if Alonso were to show up and demand a few things, I'm sure it'll be '07 all over again.

I don't know, I feel that with the Marko and Horner influence that it'd be another Ron Dennis situation that Alonso would rather avoid. I think Ferrari can pull it together and I think the promise of next years car is what is keeping him tethered to Ferrari. I think next year it will be a massive Ferrari vs Mercedes fight due to the fact that they went out and used their more senior members to build next years car. Remember this is their B team working on the car and I don't think Ferrari are going to go send Rory to the F138 table. I could be wrong though they may do it since they did that last year with the F2012.

This sums up perfectly why I reckon Fernando will stay at Ferrari.

 

[magpie1997]

I think there's more to take into account than just the points tally when comparing JEV & Ricciardo though. STR generally seems to have pretty terrible strategy calls from the pitlane, which have likely more often hurt Ricciardo more than JEV.

including yesterday Riccardo should of made top ten

 

[The Outlaw]

Here's an interesting video (regarding Fernando to RBR) for those who don't have access to BBC's coverage.




Maybe I'm reading into things a bit much, but there does seems to be a fair amount of postering and strange body language that suggest there is something going on

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

Another bargaining tool to keep Alonso at Ferrari?

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12474/8846667/ferrari-confirmed-on-monday-that-james-allison-will-join-them-on-1st-september

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I don't know, I feel that with the Marko and Horner influence that it'd be another Ron Dennis situation that Alonso would rather avoid. I think Ferrari can pull it together and I think the promise of next years car is what is keeping him tethered to Ferrari. I think next year it will be a massive Ferrari vs Mercedes fight due to the fact that they went out and used their more senior members to build next years car. Remember this is their B team working on the car and I don't think Ferrari are going to go send Rory to the F138 table. I could be wrong though they may do it since they did that last year with the F2012.

I would agree but there's one things that you are discarding here and it's the fact that ferrari did their last V6 engine in 75. It might worries Alonso a bit, especially because now that we are in Ferrari territory they arent doing better than anyone else. Mercedes and Renault, especially Renault have huge experience on V6.

I still believe Alonso will stay because he's the boss and that it love his place at Ferrari.

 

[Ardius]

Another bargaining tool to keep Alonso at Ferrari?

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12474/8846667/ferrari-confirmed-on-monday-that-james-allison-will-join-them-on-1st-september

And then:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/109095

 

[Rossell2]

Would you be so kind to help a brother whose been locked out by AssSport please Ardius?

 

[Northstar]

Here you go.👍

Ferrari's Luca di Montezemolo warns Fernando Alonso over F1 conduct
By Pablo Elizalde and Jonathan Noble Monday, July 29th 2013, 16:38 GMT

Fernando Alonso Ferrari F1 2013Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo has warned Fernando Alonso about his conduct following comments made by the Spaniard during the Hungarian Grand Prix weekend.

While it is unclear which comments Montezemolo was referring to, the Italian squad suggested Alonso had been critical of the team after a difficult weekend in Hungary.

In a statement on its website, Ferrari wrote: "There is a need to close ranks, without giving in to rash outbursts that, while understandable in the immediate aftermath of a bad result, are no use to anyone.

"That was a reference to the latest comments from Fernando Alonso, which did not go down well with Montezemolo, nor with anyone in the team."

Ferrari revealed di Montezemolo talked to Alonso today to wish him happy birthday but also warn him about his conduct in public.

"All the great champions who have driven for Ferrari have always been asked to put the interests of the team above their own," Montezemolo said.

"This is the moment to stay calm, avoid polemics and show humility and determination in making one's own contribution, standing alongside the team and its people both at the track and outside it."

Alonso finished a distant fifth in Hungary on a weekend when the team effectively reverted to an old specification package because new parts introduced in recent races had not worked.

The Spaniard said Ferrari was finally getting to the bottom of its problems, but warned that an improvement must come right after the summer break in order to stay in the fight.

"Now we understand the car, we understand the problems," said Alonso.

Fernando Alonso Ferrari F1 2013"We know what parts were not working and in a way it is normal to have this deficit now we are driving with the old parts.

"Over the summer we need to make a step forward that we thought we should make at Silverstone.

"We need these couple of tenths to come immediately for Spa and Monza to have the same performance with the cars we are fighting for the world championships."

The two-time champion has not won a race since the Spanish Grand Prix in May, although he is still in third place in the standings.

 

[Rossell2]

Much obliged mate. It'll be interesting to see how Alonso responds. This is practically the first time he's been in trouble with Ferrari isn't it?

 

[Ardius]

4 seasons of not-quite-good-enough cars is a pretty good reason to be un-happy as a double WDC looking to win championships. And I doubt anyone would say that Alonso has been the one under-performing these 4 seasons.

 

[Rossell2]

I think 2010 was the only time Ferrari had a competitive car for Alonso and even that took some doing (and was undermined in the end by poor strategy). Ferrari haven't been on it properly since 2008 imo.

 

[Dennisch]

I would love to see what Alonso can do with the RBR. I don't know how the relation is between SV and him but if they can be competitive friends, I'd imagine that RBR wins the WCC half way through the season.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

di Montezemolo once again makes his case for being the George Steinbrenner of F1 -- and by that, I mean 1980s Steinbrenner, not the late-1990s version who generally had sense enough to let his GM run the team.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I would love to see what Alonso can do with the RBR. I don't know how the relation is between SV and him but if they can be competitive friends, I'd imagine that RBR wins the WCC half way through the season.

I dont see Vettel and Alonso doing good together. It will work with Kimi without a problem but both Seb and Fernando have very strong character and dont accept failure. I dont see them together at all.

Anyway it's in Kimi hands atm right ? RBR waiting on his answer, if he say yes, we'll have Kimi and Seb on RBR next year. I guess he's hesitating because of all the sponsors solicitation you have with RBR.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I don't think Alonso and RBR will go together as long as Seb is driving for them. We all know Alonso cannot except a teammate that is favoured within the team over himself. And then we all know how happy RBR is to pick the best bits off Webber's car and give it to Seb.

 

[Ardius]

But how long is Alonso happy to sit around in a team he owns but repeatedly can't properly challenge for the championship? It seems he's eventually realising its better to have to fight another driver in the best car than to have a number 2 teammate in a mediocre car.
Perhaps Fernando has matured now and will take the measured and confident approach?

 

[Bram Turismo]

That is a valid question indeed. Then again we are talking about the 2007 Alonso, which now is many difficult seasons ago.

 

[Ardius]

I think the real kicker is that the team he left twice is now on terms if not faster than Ferrari, and its not like Fernando is getting younger. If he still has any ambition to be a world champion again, he must surely be extremely frustrated at the last 6 years.

Really, I think its a question of whether Red Bull want to upset the apple cart and attempt to manage Vettel & Alonso in the same team. While I guess they have shown they don't mind having two teammates at war...I'm not so sure they'd be looking to have that situation again. I think they're quite glad Webber is moving on.

 

[Pupik]

Alonso and Vettel in the same team...Christian Horner would be trying to manage a tyrannosaurus in china shop.

(sorry, a male cow reference would be too cheap a joke)

 

[chromatic9]

Could Alonso be setting himself up for another McLaren situation where if things aren't going too well he'll be saying stuff like Vettel is getting preferential treatment.

I think a good combo if you have a good car to win is a second driver who won't take points off the main driver but can take points off other top drivers and be up there if you DNF. I fear Alonso and Vettel will take points off each other.

Would be great to see them both at Red Bull, many feel Alonso drove the best last year. But then we have some big changes next year. Rory Byrne and James Allison. He could leave just before things pick up. James Allison is a good move.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Another bargaining tool to keep Alonso at Ferrari?

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1/news/12474/8846667/ferrari-confirmed-on-monday-that-james-allison-will-join-them-on-1st-september

I would agree but there's one things that you are discarding here and it's the fact that ferrari did their last V6 engine in 75. It might worries Alonso a bit, especially because now that we are in Ferrari territory they arent doing better than anyone else. Mercedes and Renault, especially Renault have huge experience on V6.

I still believe Alonso will stay because he's the boss and that it love his place at Ferrari.

Uh...what does it really matter? Ferrari have as much experience in Turbos as Merc and Renault and Honda, yeah the V6 engines were a long time ago, but they have the engineering know how to make great items. It isn't something people just forget, and with Fiat having built plenty since then, Ferrari will clearly be fine. They are currently going to have a line of them for their road cars, so I wouldn't underestimate them on that front.

James Allison finally starting work their will also be big, and further shows that Ferrari probably have as many people in the kitchen as Merc GP. Alonso has plenty to work with in the next few years.

4 seasons of not-quite-good-enough cars is a pretty good reason to be un-happy as a double WDC looking to win championships. And I doubt anyone would say that Alonso has been the one under-performing these 4 seasons.

Ferrari have done their job for 3 of those four year, bad luck and poor strategy not car building are the issue. We wouldn't be saying any of this if Alonso was a four time champ. Also regarding what Luca said, there is that but the bigger point you've ignored with James Allison starting soon is probably to make Alonso happy, since he was with the man during his two championship seasons.

 

[Ardius]

Also regarding what Luca said, there is that but the bigger point you've ignored with James Allison starting soon is probably to make Alonso happy, since he was with the man during his two championship seasons.

Wait what? First of all, Ferrari's statement is one of those "no driver is bigger than the team" sort of themes. And well, if they are hiring people just to please him then clearly he is bigger than the team.
But really that's silly, I'm pretty sure Ferrari hiring James Allison is more to do with his record recently at Enstone. I'm quite sure McLaren were interested in his services too...

And secondly, I don't see why Alonso should be happy with them making yet more changes for the future. They've failed to succeed 4 years straight now, like I said before that's reason enough to be very frustrated.

What does Alonso owe Ferrari? He hasn't said a bad word for years now. And now he says a minuscule little comment which is more than fair and suddenly he's being petulant and should be happy?

Rather than Ferrari getting furious, they should be a bit more honest with themselves. All they are doing is making it more likely Alonso will leave.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Wait what? First of all, Ferrari's statement is one of those "no driver is bigger than the team" sort of themes. And well, if they are hiring people just to please him then clearly he is bigger than the team.
But really that's silly, I'm pretty sure Ferrari hiring James Allison is more to do with his record recently at Enstone. I'm quite sure McLaren were interested in his services too...

Yes because people like LDM and Marko don't contradict themselves, but when they get on a camera they mush show their authority to save face. Um...he worked for Ferrari, he had a record before recently that was good enough to get him hired and yet maybe they feel this could help Alonso and have him feel confidence in the team. Perhaps this is why he (LDM) was vocal, because he thinks Alonso should be patient and see what the team will provide so they both succeed.

And secondly, I don't see why Alonso should be happy with them making yet more changes for the future. They've failed to succeed 4 years straight now, like I said before that's reason enough to be very frustrated.

Pretty sure that I don't agree with LDM, if you want I'll go fetch my post on F1Fanatic so you get a better scope that you seem to not have gotten. And in reality Alonso and the team are both to blame, but bad luck could also be factored in. You seem to have an absolutist attitude that Ferrari are completely in the wrong., Fernando isn't one to take the blame. I still disagree with LDM being so public about this yet expects his drivers and others not to be, that is why I'm irritated due to the "do as I say, not as I do" attitude.

What does Alonso owe Ferrari? He hasn't said a bad word for years now. And now he says a minuscule little comment which is more than fair and suddenly he's being petulant and should be happy?

Rather than Ferrari getting furious, they should be a bit more honest with themselves. All they are doing is making it more likely Alonso will leave.

I didn't say Alonso owes Ferrari anything...I agree that Alonso should be able to say something because he has done less to hurt his chance at gaining a WDC than the team itself.

It's Ferrari are you really that surprised, it's not shocking the ego that they have over their isn't anything new and hasn't really done much to help them.

 

[Wardez]

FERRARI OFFERS SEAT TO KIMI
http://f1fanatic.eu/cikk/ferrari-offers-raikkonen-to-rejoin-team-in-2014

 

[Samus]

Really doubt Kimi will want to go back there after being paid off to leave, not to mention all the Ferrari PR stuff he hated.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

Can't see Kimi going back to Ferrari. Especially after their performances in recent seasons compared to RBR and their PR requirements. If Alonso was kicked out of Ferrari where would he go? McLaren is a big no-no, RBR if he wants to play second fiddle, Lotus is the most likely option.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

When I saw the Ferrari thing with Kimi I laughed out loud literally. As if he'd go back, that was one of the things I meant when I posted my last comment. Him, Barrichello, Schumacher, Prost and Alonso as of late, were pushed around. The only thing alonso can do now is look and see how drivers before him dealt with it. I mean Ferrari are either stupid or brave with this. You can only go around burning so many bridges before it costs you. I feel Alonso should buy out and go to RBR and try it and Kimi should stay at Lotus. Who would they have after? Jenson, or maybe Rosberg? I'd love to see them flounder around like they did for a while back during the 80s and early 90s.

 

[Samus]

Well they've already floundered since 2008 remember. Personally I think Alonso would be foolish to move teams the year of a radical rule change. It'd be a huge gamble.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well they've already floundered since 2008 remember. Personally I think Alonso would be foolish to move teams the year of a radical rule change. It'd be a huge gamble.

I agree, but if they are trying to prove a point with this Kimi offer, then I'd be mad. However, I already stated why he should stay for the technical reasons and you seem to agree. It's really a tough situation I feel that another reason LDM is acting like this is due to the fact they may have the title contending car next year like I think they will along with Mercedes.