The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

[MagpieRacer]

No he wasn't. He was commenting on some of whats going on in the YDT. Your turning that into speculation and countering it.

I bet you could argue with yourself if you had no one here to argue with.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I'm at the testing at silverstone today, not as good as it has been in previous years.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

He was commenting on some of whats going on in the YDT..

In a thread about future drivers. Immediately after a discussion on which young drivers might be ready to step up next season. And he was commenting on the Young Driver Tests, which were originally conceived to give young drivers the chance to sample Formula 1 cars to make the case for their promotion to Formula 1.

He was off-topic, assumed that everyone reading his posts knew it, and has now responded poorly when someone has not agreed with his posts. He might have been watching motorsport for 25 years, but I'll bet he hasn't been reading thread titles for that long.

 

[paddyree]

You were posting in a thread on the driver transfer market. Speculating on which drivers might be on the verge of breaking into Formula 1 - and why - is the entire point of this thread. So if you weren't doing that, it begs the question of what you were doing.

Sorry i forgot that every post has to be exactly on topic and also exactly agree with your views. How stupid of me

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Sorry i forgot that every post has to be exactly on topic

You agreed to follow the Acceptable Use Policy when you registered with the forums. The AUP contains this line:

You will not knowingly post any material that is false, misleading, or inaccurate.

So if you know that what you are posting is off-topic, you've just posted something innaccurate. And given your very poor reaction, what you posted was misleading.

 

[paddyree]

In a thread about future drivers. Immediately after a discussion on which young drivers might be ready to step up next season. And he was commenting on the Young Driver Tests, which were originally conceived to give young drivers the chance to sample Formula 1 cars to make the case for their promotion to Formula 1.

He was off-topic, assumed that everyone reading his posts knew it, and has now responded poorly when someone has not agreed with his posts. He might have been watching motorsport for 25 years, but I'll bet he hasn't been reading thread titles for that long.

There was nothing in my post for you to agree or disagree with. As I said before, I was just commenting on what I am seeing today, but as usual, from what I have seen of your previous posts, you have jumped in with your opinion that assumes nobody but you knows what they are talking about.
That's the reason I don't post very often - too many people on here who think their word is law and everybody is an idiot

You agreed to follow the Acceptable Use Policy when you registered with the forums. The AUP contains this line:

So if you know that what you are posting is off-topic, you've just posted something innaccurate. And given your very poor reaction, what you posted was misleading.

How can stating what I'm seeing with my own eyes be false or misleading.

I'm at the testing at silverstone today, not as good as it has been in previous years.

Better when they had unlimited testing and it was free

 

[prisonermonkeys]

How can stating what I'm seeing with my own eyes be false or misleading.

Because you didn't intend for it to be a discussion on the driver transfer market, but you posted it in the thread on the driver transfer market. And by doing so, you presented it as somehow being related to the driver transfer market. Especially since we had just been having a discussion on which young drivers might be ready for Formula 1. Your comments were easily misinterpreted as being related to that discussion.

If you want to discuss the Young Driver Tests, take it to the appropriate thread. If no thread exists, create one. Don't just post it in the most active thread because it's the active thread.

 

[paddyree]

Because you didn't intend for it to be a discussion on the driver transfer market, but you posted it in the thread on the driver transfer market. And by doing so, you presented it as somehow being related to the driver transfer market. Especially since we had just been having a discussion on which young drivers might be ready for Formula 1. Your comments were easily misinterpreted as being related to that discussion.

If you want to discuss the Young Driver Tests, take it to the appropriate thread. If no thread exists, create one. Don't just post it in the most active thread because it's the active thread.

Funny that only you misinterpreted it.
Thanks for your help in realising how misinformed I am. No doubt if I had started it in a new thread I would have been told it didn't need a new thread and it should have gone in this or another thread

 

[MatskiMonk]

Better when they had unlimited testing and it was free

Yeah too right, £20 on the gate plus £10 for pit pit walk. On the plus side, no marshals so its a good chance to get photos without the fences causing too much trouble, although on from abbey to copse is open to he public, no centre access at all!

 

[Bram Turismo]

You agreed to follow the Acceptable Use Policy when you registered with the forums. The AUP contains this line:

So if you know that what you are posting is off-topic, you've just posted something innaccurate. And given your very poor reaction, what you posted was misleading.

Thank God they took the moderator status away from you. Are you really suggesting that what he has been posting in here is faring against the AUP?

Please, just stop being so daft.

 

[Akmuq]

You were posting in a thread on the driver transfer market. Speculating on which drivers might be on the verge of breaking into Formula 1 - and why - is the entire point of this thread. So if you weren't doing that, it begs the question of what you were doing.

In a thread about future drivers. Immediately after a discussion on which young drivers might be ready to step up next season. And he was commenting on the Young Driver Tests, which were originally conceived to give young drivers the chance to sample Formula 1 cars to make the case for their promotion to Formula 1.

He was off-topic, assumed that everyone reading his posts knew it, and has now responded poorly when someone has not agreed with his posts. He might have been watching motorsport for 25 years, but I'll bet he hasn't been reading thread titles for that long.

You agreed to follow the Acceptable Use Policy when you registered with the forums. The AUP contains this line:

So if you know that what you are posting is off-topic, you've just posted something innaccurate. And given your very poor reaction, what you posted was misleading.

Because you didn't intend for it to be a discussion on the driver transfer market, but you posted it in the thread on the driver transfer market. And by doing so, you presented it as somehow being related to the driver transfer market. Especially since we had just been having a discussion on which young drivers might be ready for Formula 1. Your comments were easily misinterpreted as being related to that discussion.

If you want to discuss the Young Driver Tests, take it to the appropriate thread. If no thread exists, create one. Don't just post it in the most active thread because it's the active thread.

None of these posts have been on the topic of the driver transfer market, they've just all been mouthing off at a member. Ironic.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Because you didn't intend for it to be a discussion on the driver transfer market, but you posted it in the thread on the driver transfer market. And by doing so, you presented it as somehow being related to the driver transfer market. Especially since we had just been having a discussion on which young drivers might be ready for Formula 1. Your comments were easily misinterpreted as being related to that discussion.

If you want to discuss the Young Driver Tests, take it to the appropriate thread. If no thread exists, create one. Don't just post it in the most active thread because it's the active thread.

And yet in your blind attempt to be right you failed to point out his triple post

Meanwhile. Prospects for Susie Wolff to step up to a race seat? A respectable outing from her toda. 89 laps total, 9th quickest.

 

[Peasantslayer]

And yet in your blind attempt to be right you failed to point out his triple post

Meanwhile. Prospects for Susie Wolff to step up to a race seat? A respectable outing from her toda. 89 laps total, 9th quickest.

Any driver in GP2 could do that time in a Williams, I wish we could see how she compares with Bottas and Pastor with the same setup.

 

[Roo]

Yeah too right, £20 on the gate plus £10 for pit pit walk. On the plus side, no marshals so its a good chance to get photos without the fences causing too much trouble, although on from abbey to copse is open to he public, no centre access at all!

Was there any viewing on the Loop? I was going to go today until I saw the access map, and which point I decided not to bother.

 

[paddyree]

Was there any viewing on the Loop? I was going to go today until I saw the access map, and which point I decided not to bother.

Only viewing was from Luffield complex round to copse as they were using the old pit lane.
Probably more possible future drivers on the other days, although Suzie knows what she needs to do to Toto if she wants a drive

 

[BHRxRacer]

Only viewing was from Luffield complex round to copse as they were using the old pit lane.
Probably more possible future drivers on the other days, although Suzie knows what she needs to do to Toto if she wants a drive

Considering where she is now, the guy is probably bone dry already.

 

[CinnamonOD]

Only viewing was from Luffield complex round to copse as they were using the old pit lane.
Probably more possible future drivers on the other days, although Suzie knows what she needs to do to Toto if she wants a drive

There are rumors linking Facundo Regalia with Force India, even himself has said something about it, he also said that Lotus and Sauber have shown intereste in him.

 

[Ardius]

That's my point, and the people who dominated in 3.5 a year or even two years ago aren't doing amazing in GP2. Which would cause me to question the F1 leap. Yeah GP2 '13 may be better than GP2 '12 (which I'd agree with somewhat) but still not that amazing from seasons past.

Frijns hasn't been too bad, but he's definately been disappointing compared to last year.

I'm not sure why you guys are expecting drivers to jump in cars and immediately perform, but Frijns has certainly done so as best as anyone can. He won only his 3rd race in GP2. If thats not impressive, I don't know what is.

GP2 drivers jumping into FR3.5 wouldn't necessarily do any better, well unless they are actually really good..which is the point.

Coletti has been driving like a champ this year. 4th year or not, he is fast and polished and only 24. Calado is the same age, but far more inconsistent. Lancaster is even older and hasn't been particularly impressive in feature races. The only time he has stood out are the reverse grid races when he starts near the front. Frijns loves to dive up the inside a little too much for my liking. The only current GP2 drivers I'd take over Coletti if I had a middling F1 team are Nasr and Evans (though as you say, he needs a few more years in GP2).

Also, anyone from FR3.5 over anyone from GP2? No. WSR might be a bit stronger, but no, that's crazy.

Has Coletti really been driving like a champ? He's hardly been leading from the front every race. Felipe Nasr has yet to win a race this season and he's not far behind on points.
I expect better to be honest, by the time a driver is in his 3rd/4th season in a junior category, they really should be occupying the top 4 pretty regularly. Coletti has still been inconsistent and not really very convincing. I'd say Luiz Razia was more convincing and he was never really lightning quick (nor Valsecchi).

Yes, I would take anyone from FR3.5, what's crazy about that? I don't see why FR3.5 has such a low reputation on this forum, there have already been plenty of quality drivers to rise from F1 from there and the competition is much closer than GP2. There are far fewer multi-season drivers present as well, meaning the top drivers are not just the most experienced.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Has Coletti really been driving like a champ? He's hardly been leading from the front every race. Felipe Nasr has yet to win a race this season and he's not far behind on points.
I expect better to be honest, by the time a driver is in his 3rd/4th season in a junior category, they really should be occupying the top 4 pretty regularly. Coletti has still been inconsistent and not really very convincing. I'd say Luiz Razia was more convincing and he was never really lightning quick (nor Valsecchi).

I know it's really come out of nowhere, but Coletti has been very good this year. His qualifying hasn't been stellar (though his lightning starts have made up for that somewhat), but his race pace and overtaking has been excellent. And he's been good at every event: top 6 in every race until he was taken out by Leimer on the last lap of the Silverstone feature race. He's simply been the best driver in what I rate as a better field than what Razia/Valsecchi had to deal with.

All that being said, would I put him into one of my hypothetical F1 team's cars? No. I'd go for Nasr or one of the current top 3 in FR3.5 if I had to have a rookie, else I'd go for an F1 vet and/or wait for Lello, Wehrlein, Evans, Rovera, etc. (ie next young gun) to be ready.

Yes, I would take anyone from FR3.5, what's crazy about that? I don't see why FR3.5 has such a low reputation on this forum, there have already been plenty of quality drivers to rise from F1 from there and the competition is much closer than GP2. There are far fewer multi-season drivers present as well, meaning the top drivers are not just the most experienced.

And how does that (in bold) make it a stronger series? All the experienced drivers are gone from FR3.5, so while there still may be a horde of talent in the series, there are no benchmark drivers for the young guys to stand out against. The likes of Kevin Magnussen and Stoffel Vandoorne are competing against each other, and they are very talented, but still fairly raw and unproven drivers, while Felipe Nasr is up against the experienced heavyweights of past European formula (Bird, Calado, Leimer, Frijns, Rossi, Ericsson etc.).

All that being said, and as I said before, I think there is more talent in FR3.5. But please don't tell me you'll take Carlos Huertas for your F1 team before you take Felipe Nasr.

 

[Ardius]

No, I'd take the 2nd placed driver from FR3.5 over the 2nd placed driver from GP2, etc. That's what I meant by that, not that I'd take the worst drivers from one over the best from the other.

Having fewer experienced drivers in the series makes a difference because they tend to be the ones that win - which skews people's view. A few people were talking about Valsecchi last year but when you put it in the context of how many seasons he's had versus his competition, its just less impressive.

Its basically about the fact drivers in junior categories tend to move on a lot. Very few good drivers stay in the same series more than 2 seasons, and a lot of drivers run out of money. So when you've got drivers hanging around a while - its expected that they win.

In the last few years, the champion in GP2 has been a driver with a lot of experience in the series who has had to rely on beating an inexperienced field to win. Hulkenburg was the last GP2 champion with minimal experience.

 

[SagarisGTB]

No, I'd take the 2nd placed driver from FR3.5 over the 2nd placed driver from GP2, etc. That's what I meant by that, not that I'd take the worst drivers from one over the best from the other.

That wasn't clear. Still Nasr vs Magnussen, they were pretty well matched in British F3, Felipe took the championship but many felt Magnussen may have edged it. That might be a toss up.

And I'd take Calado over Melker and Evans for Huertas.

Having fewer experienced drivers in the series makes a difference because they tend to be the ones that win - which skews people's view. A few people were talking about Valsecchi last year but when you put it in the context of how many seasons he's had versus his competition, its just less impressive.

Its basically about the fact drivers in junior categories tend to move on a lot. Very few good drivers stay in the same series more than 2 seasons, and a lot of drivers run out of money. So when you've got drivers hanging around a while - its expected that they win.

In the last few years, the champion in GP2 has been a driver with a lot of experience in the series who has had to rely on beating an inexperienced field to win. Hulkenburg was the last GP2 champion with minimal experience.

Of course it's less impressive. If Coletti were a rookie, he'd be very much in demand. He isn't, so he's not, but it's not as if he's beating a field of rookies fresh out of F3. Bird and Leimer in particular are just as experienced at the FR3.5/GP2 level and he's clearly outperformed them, so there is still some accomplishment to be gained. You won't start winning just by sticking around, Cecotto and Leal have both been around a while in GP2, but neither has ever or will ever be a championship contender. You almost act as if sticking around long enough will have mugs competing for the championship. You need talent and experience, but still the former trumps the latter.

I don't think Razia, Valsecchi, Coletti or Bird are F1 caliber drivers, but they are still very good drivers. To come in and beat these experienced guys in your first year is very difficult and even in the second year it's a challenge. I don't think that detracts from the series, it just makes it harder for the young talent to stand out. That makes what Nasr is doing, even though he hasn't won a race, all the more impressive. If you expect the 3rd/4th year guys to win, then a 2nd year guy contending for the championship becomes more impressive.

 

[Ardius]

Of course, Coletti isn't a bad driver, I just wouldn't be rushing to put him in a seat. Vandoorne on the other hand....

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm not sure why you guys are expecting drivers to jump in cars and immediately perform, but Frijns has certainly done so as best as anyone can. He won only his 3rd race in GP2. If thats not impressive, I don't know what is.

GP2 drivers jumping into FR3.5 wouldn't necessarily do any better, well unless they are actually really good..which is the point.





Yes, I would take anyone from FR3.5, what's crazy about that? I don't see why FR3.5 has such a low reputation on this forum, there have already been plenty of quality drivers to rise from F1 from there and the competition is much closer than GP2. There are far fewer multi-season drivers present as well, meaning the top drivers are not just the most experienced.

Who is giving it a low rep, I said I'd rather people pick from 3.5 more so than GP2. I'm an advocate of 3.5 and have usually hated GP2. The reason I expect (sadly you lumped me with PM) drivers to do good why they rise to the F1 step is because teams do as well. Not doing good on your first F1 outing season is fine, but second and at the most third year shows what your level of driving is relative to the rest of the field to a overall capacity. Especially when other drivers get paired with you of different experience levels in the same car. However, teams should realize that their driver might take more time to comfortable racing in F1 if it took them 3-5 years to do so in a feeder series.

I'm looking at this from an F1 stand point, and I haven't shown it on this forum but over on on F1Fanatic I have said I think Frijins should have got a drive this year but hopefully will get one next year..

Of course, Coletti isn't a bad driver, I just wouldn't be rushing to put him in a seat. Vandoorne on the other hand....

Why? You just got irritated at us for wanting drivers that can be good from the start and yet you wish to see one be held back

Also I wasn't saying they should be at the top like PM is suggesting but showing a upper mid field competitiveness would be nice. For example Rossi was great in 2011 finished 3rd in 3.5, however since then he hasn't been anything significant.

 

[Ardius]

Huh? I'd like to see Vandoorne given a chance, he's been very impressive so far. That's not to say I expect the best drivers to instantly win in their first season..but it certainly helps a lot when they do.

I've already explained why I'm not really impressed with Coletti, sure drivers take a while to get comfortable..but 3-4 seasons is a bit much.

 

[Dennisch]

Do any of you guys see Frijns as a potential top or sub top F1 driver? I know for fact that a lot of Dutch F1 fans would like to see a Dutch guy in a competitive car and not some bottom feeder like van de Garde..

 

[Ardius]

I actually don't think van der Garde is bad, he's generally been out-paced by Pic but he seems to make good starts and races quite well. I think both Caterham drivers are pretty good and worthy of at least a chance in the midfield.

But yeah I think Frijns might be the real deal - but its always difficult to say before they get to F1. The sudden increase in publicity and scrutiny is a far cry from even GP2.
Not to mention a driver can really crumble if they aren't supported by management (see the Toro Rosso drivers over the years).

The problem for Frijns is that he doesn't have a great deal of sponsorship (see his will-he-or-won't-he Hilmer seat).

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Huh? I'd like to see Vandoorne given a chance, he's been very impressive so far. That's not to say I expect the best drivers to instantly win in their first season..but it certainly helps a lot when they do.

I've already explained why I'm not really impressed with Coletti, sure drivers take a while to get comfortable..but 3-4 seasons is a bit much.

That's the point I was trying to make which you seemed to miss early on. And why I don't have much hope for drivers like that.

Do any of you guys see Frijns as a potential top or sub top F1 driver? I know for fact that a lot of Dutch F1 fans would like to see a Dutch guy in a competitive car and not some bottom feeder like van de Garde..

Van De Garde is his own making though, he raced for Caterham in GP2, it's no surprise that he'd end up in their F1 car.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You mean van der Garde paid - with family money, I believe he has a personal connection to McGregor - to race for Caterham in GP2 and then paid to race for Caterham in Formula 1.

 

[SagarisGTB]

I think it's becoming clear that when Frijns gets into F1, he's probably going to have a lot of incidents (over-ambitious overtakes in the same vein as Perez, not Maldonado) and be branded an idiot by many. But he's quick, so he might be worth it if he cleans his act up.

 

[Speedster7]

I think Jules Bianchi would be a good choice for a midfield team because of his good pace, but I have no idea where he would go...
Similar situation to Di Resta, he is good enough to move up but I don't know where to...