The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

[Lizard]

what's wrong with him?

Have you seen his driving?

He is one of the dirtiest drivers I have ever known. He will happily take you off the track.

 

[SilverArrow]

what's wrong with him?

Where to begin...

 

[Ardius]

To be fair, if Cecotto tries any of that in F1 he's not going to last very long. The FIA already set quite the precedent banning Grosjean for 1 race last year, I doubt they will let any of that slide.
If anything, even if the FIA don't do anything, the pressure from the teams and drivers will certainly put enough pressure on him. Not to mention the increased media scrutiny.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

To be fair, if Cecotto tries any of that in F1 he's not going to last very long. The FIA already set quite the precedent banning Grosjean for 1 race last year, I doubt they will let any of that slide.

The new licence penalty system shouldn't make that too difficult.

 

[Samus]

Still blows my mind he wasn't penalised for that move in Barcelona.

 

[SagarisGTB]

There are some rather frightening reports coming out of Venezuela claiming that Johnny Cecotto Jnr. will be in Formula 1 next year ...

Cecotto isn't just your regular idiot like Canamasas, or an impatient divebomber like Frijns, he's a genuine dirty seemingly-malicious driver. Well, during his worst moments at least. He can battle cleanly when he wants to, but sometimes he doesn't and that's what we remember.

Regardless, even if he didn't have his incidents, I don't think he deserves a seat. There's many better drivers in GP2/FR3.5.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I can't find anything to substantiate these reports. The comments seem to have been made by the team principal of Team Lazarus, who compete in GP2 as Venezuela GP Lazarus (while Cecotto competes for Arden International). There doesn't seem to be anything else linking Cecotto to Formula 1.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

Imagine Cecotto partnering Maldonado at Williams next year.

Williams will be unstoppable!

 

[Jiggins]

Imagine Cecotto partnering Maldonado at Williams next year.

Williams will be unstoppable!

Everyone will pull over and let them pass in fear!

 

[zippy_the_cat]

I can't find anything to substantiate these reports. The comments seem to have been made by the team principal of Team Lazarus, who compete in GP2 as Venezuela GP Lazarus (while Cecotto competes for Arden International). There doesn't seem to be anything else linking Cecotto to Formula 1.

Let's hope it was just someone blowing smoke. Meanwhile, a cautionary word about the F1 media from Joe Saward.

 

[BHRxRacer]

OMG HAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA, is this real? Did they change the car?

Max Chilton is last AGAIN, even among all the noobs. ****ing hell even Ellinas is a FULL SECOND faster than him in the same car. I think we should pay Marrusia to fire him and put someone worth being in F1 in his seat. How much is he paying the team???

 

[Samus]

OMG HAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA, is this real? Did they change the car?

Max Chilton is last AGAIN, even among all the noobs. ****ing hell even Ellinas is a FULL SECOND faster than him in the same car. I think we should pay Marrusia to fire him and put someone worth being in F1 in his seat. How much is he paying the team???

The time is not fully representative, it was a test session. His "best" time was three seconds slower than his Q1 time this year and even his best FP1 time was faster.

Don't get me wrong I agree he's rubbish and funded by his family but testing times are not a fair judge.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Meanwhile, a cautionary word about the F1 media from Joe Saward.

It's ironic that Saward should post that article. A few years ago, he got himself into hot water when he started criticising Vijay Mallya for things he didn't do. Saward was (and always has been) a big fan of Tonio Liuzzi, and was upset when Mallya dumped him in favour of Paul di Resta. He started posting a few blog pieces that claimed Liuzzi was seeking legal action against Mallya to get his seat back, and offered the opinion that Liuzzi had a very strong case. But he made the mistake of presenting this as fact, as if he had somehow consulted with a lawyer and had enough knowledge of Liuzzi's contract to know what he was talking about. In the resulting backlash, Saward disabled the comments function from his blog and heavily moderated what had been posted.

Some time later, Mallya did a deal with Subrata Roy from the Sahara Group for a naming-rights sponsorship arrangement. Saward claimed that Mallya was on the verge of selling the team, but when Mallya announced that it was a naming-rights and part-ownership deal, Saward tried to tear him a new one, claiming that Mallya had lied to the media to get extra attention. When users demonstrated that Mallya had said nothing of the sort to begin with, Saward disabled comments and started moderating again. He does it every single time he posts something objectionable - he did it for a third time around the British Grand Prix, but I have no idea why - though he has at least had the sense to avoid talking about Mallya if he can.

So it's ironic that Saward should tell people to be careful who they pay attention to, because he's perhaps the worst journalist in the paddock. But then, he's always believed that he's something special.

 

[braunracing88]

Looks like it's Raikkonen vs. Ricciardo for the second Red Bull seat.
http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport/story/116755.html

 

[Peasantslayer]

OMG HAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHA, is this real? Did they change the car?

Max Chilton is last AGAIN, even among all the noobs. ****ing hell even Ellinas is a FULL SECOND faster than him in the same car. I think we should pay Marrusia to fire him and put someone worth being in F1 in his seat. How much is he paying the team???

So you think a 1:38 is the best Chilton could do?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Max Chilton is last AGAIN, even among all the noobs. ****ing hell even Ellinas is a FULL SECOND faster than him in the same car.

And I suppose you think that the McLaren is the fastest car on the grid?

How much is he paying the team???

Enough to buy a stake in the team. Which they have done.

 

[Pupik]

So it's ironic that Saward should tell people to be careful who they pay attention to, because he's perhaps the worst journalist in the paddock. But then, he's always believed that he's something special.

...and yet, you quote him on GTP at least twice a month! Don't give him the potential traffic and trackbacks if you don't like him.

I take all my F1 news and blogs with a grain of salt, and at least he's raised awareness of how tightly-controlled media access to the F1 paddock and personalities can be (although seasoned fans knew this already). We need another blog on F1 like we need another hole in our heads.

The flotsam and jetsam surrounds any other pro-level sporting activity, worldwide. Everyone's a so-called political analyst/activist/insider as well. Or an art critic...

 

[zippy_the_cat]

...and yet, you quote him on GTP at least twice a month! Don't give him the potential traffic and trackbacks if you don't like him.

In PM's defense, the well-known F1 journos all have their detractors regardless of their track record. C.f. the hate regularly directed at Benson's way. But you take solid information where you can find it, the best recent example being Eddie Jordan's scooping the paddock on Hamilton-to-Mercedes.

 

[Ardius]

The only F1 journalist I make a point of avoiding is Andrew Benson, but even he can have some tidbits of useful information. Its just he likes to colour his articles in his own opinion, as always with news and journalism, its about recognising and reading past the rubbish.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Have you seen his driving?

He is one of the dirtiest drivers I have ever known. He will happily take you off the track.

Exactly the guy shouldn't be racing, it's not like the 2013 GP2 group is amazing, but this guy does moves out of spite. As if no one should be allowed to pass him and as a sore loser he does whatever he can to ruin others. The guy will never be in F1, but I shouldn't say that since Pastor still made it.

Imagine Cecotto partnering Maldonado at Williams next year.

Williams will be unstoppable!

More like they'll wreck each other out of angst

They'd be stopping themselves

 

[Ardius]

The 2013 crop of GP2 drivers are certainly a lot better (imo) than the 2012 crop. And I say that excluding drivers like Sam Bird, Sefano Coletti and Fabio Leimer because by your 4th season you really should be a front-runner (considering half the field runs out of money to do more than 1 or 2 seasons or moves on to F1 or elsewhere).
Neither Bird, Leimer or Coletti are particularly dominating when they really should be.

I'd take Nasr, Frijns, Calado, Lancaster or Evans out of this year's bunch. Although Evans could do with doing a 2nd season first, he's still been impressive for a rookie.

That said, I'd take anyone from FR3.5 before anyone in GP2 just because its a more competitive field. Stoffel Vandoorne..yeah..

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The 2013 crop of GP2 drivers are certainly a lot better (imo) than the 2012 crop. And I say that excluding drivers like Sam Bird, Sefano Coletti and Fabio Leimer because by your 4th season you really should be a front-runner (considering half the field runs out of money to do more than 1 or 2 seasons or moves on to F1 or elsewhere).
Neither Bird, Leimer or Coletti are particularly dominating when they really should be.

I'd take Nasr, Frijns, Calado, Lancaster or Evans out of this year's bunch. Although Evans could do with doing a 2nd season first, he's still been impressive for a rookie.

That said, I'd take anyone from FR3.5 before anyone in GP2 just because its a more competitive field. Stoffel Vandoorne..yeah..

That's my point, and the people who dominated in 3.5 a year or even two years ago aren't doing amazing in GP2. Which would cause me to question the F1 leap. Yeah GP2 '13 may be better than GP2 '12 (which I'd agree with somewhat) but still not that amazing from seasons past.

 

[SagarisGTB]

The 2013 crop of GP2 drivers are certainly a lot better (imo) than the 2012 crop. And I say that excluding drivers like Sam Bird, Sefano Coletti and Fabio Leimer because by your 4th season you really should be a front-runner (considering half the field runs out of money to do more than 1 or 2 seasons or moves on to F1 or elsewhere).
Neither Bird, Leimer or Coletti are particularly dominating when they really should be.

I'd take Nasr, Frijns, Calado, Lancaster or Evans out of this year's bunch. Although Evans could do with doing a 2nd season first, he's still been impressive for a rookie.

That said, I'd take anyone from FR3.5 before anyone in GP2 just because its a more competitive field. Stoffel Vandoorne..yeah..

Coletti has been driving like a champ this year. 4th year or not, he is fast and polished and only 24. Calado is the same age, but far more inconsistent. Lancaster is even older and hasn't been particularly impressive in feature races. The only time he has stood out are the reverse grid races when he starts near the front. Frijns loves to dive up the inside a little too much for my liking. The only current GP2 drivers I'd take over Coletti if I had a middling F1 team are Nasr and Evans (though as you say, he needs a few more years in GP2).

Also, anyone from FR3.5 over anyone from GP2? No. WSR might be a bit stronger, but no, that's crazy.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

as always with news and journalism any written communication, its about recognising and reading past the rubbish.

Fixed that for you.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'd take Nasr, Frijns, Calado, Lancaster or Evans out of this year's bunch. Although Evans could do with doing a 2nd season first, he's still been impressive for a rookie.

The problem with picking which rookie drivers to promote is that it really depends on which seats become available, and which drivers you could put into them. So the drivers who aren't attached to development programmes probably have it easiest.

If I was given carte blanche to take who I wanted, I'd probably pick Nasr. Frijns hasn't been too bad, but he's definately been disappointing compared to last year. Calado has definitely had a downturn in form, so maybe he would be better off crossing over to Formula Renault 3.5 next year. I'm not sure what to make of Lancaster or Evans at the moment, other than that I don't think they're ready for Formula 1.

As for the Formula Renault 3.5 drivers, I'd look at promoting Vandoorne, Magnussen and da Costa. Depending on the team - if, for instance, Caterham want a Dutch driver to replace van der Garde - maybe Melker as well. Sergey Sirotkin is definately promising, but I think he needs another season. A smart move for Sauber would be to take Vandoorne in 2014 to establish tiess with McLaren, then switch to Honda power in 2015 and pick up Sirotkin.

In other series, I think Tio Ellinas and Kevin Korjus could step straight up from GP3 to Formula 1. Ellinas has shown great speed this year (not only is he the only driver to have finished every race so far this year, he's the only drivers to have scored points in every race), and Korjus isn't going to learn anything more in a junior category.

From Formula 3, I'd look at getting Raffaele Marciello and Felix Serralles on the fast-track to Formula 1. Marvin Kirchhofer is looking pretty handy in the German series, but the FIA is promoting the European series as the primary Formula 3 category. And I'd get Pascal Werhlein and Robert Wickens out of DTM as soon as possible; they're both being wasted there.

 

[SagarisGTB]

If I was given carte blanche to take who I wanted, I'd probably pick Nasr.

Same. This year he has erased any doubt as to his ability to come through the field with that wonderful performance at Silverstone. Otherwise, he looks good, good quali pace and an ability to look after his tires, which might be just as important as race pace in F1 right now.

As for the Formula Renault 3.5 drivers, I'd look at promoting Vandoorne, Magnussen and da Costa. Depending on the team - if, for instance, Caterham want a Dutch driver to replace van der Garde - maybe Melker as well. Sergey Sirotkin is definately promising, but I think he needs another season. A smart move for Sauber would be to take Vandoorne in 2014 to establish tiess with McLaren, then switch to Honda power in 2015 and pick up Sirotkin.

I can agree with that assessment.

In other series, I think Tio Ellinas and Kevin Korjus could step straight up from GP3 to Formula 1. Ellinas has shown great speed this year (not only is he the only driver to have finished every race so far this year, he's the only drivers to have scored points in every race), and Korjus isn't going to learn anything more in a junior category.

I would disagree. Ellinas hasn't shown any sort of "great speed" in my estimation. He seems to get his car solidly into the points, but that's about all. Rarely ever looks like overtaking anybody and getting closer to the front, he hasn't come close to winning a race since race 1 in Barcelona. Korjus was impressive a couple years ago, but he is really starting to look ordinary now. I'm not convinced by this GP3 field (frggin Facu Regalia has looked like the best driver out there at times!), Korjus should be less anonymous here. I'd like to see either in GP2 or (back in) WSR before any look at F1.

From Formula 3, I'd look at getting Raffaele Marciello and Felix Serralles on the fast-track to Formula 1.

Lello for sure, but Serralles I'm not sure about. Good in the wet for sure, but nothing special in normal conditions. And he seems to have a penchant for contact too.

And I'd get Pascal Werhlein and Robert Wickens out of DTM as soon as possible; they're both being wasted there.

Agreed.

 

[paddyree]

Just watching the young driver test at Silverstone. Nicholas Prost looks very handy in the lotus and Carlos Sainz jnr in the Red Bull (although I would probably look good in that).
Suzie Woolf only seems to be doing a couple of laps at a time.
Rodolfo Gonzalez in the Marrussia has done about 20 laps, locked into Luffield 18 times, nearly binned it at Woodcote twice and spun twice causing one red flag.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Just watching the young driver test at Silverstone.

It's not really representative of who the teams are considering.

Nicholas Prost looks very handy in the lotus

He's in his thirties, and unlikely to make his debut any time soon.

Suzie Woolf only seems to be doing a couple of laps at a time.

That's because she's following a testing programme. Testing isn't about going completely flat out all the time. It's about covering all of the things the team needs you to do, testing tyre compounds and set-up changes and new parts. Fast lap times are the last thing on anyone's mind.

Rodolfo Gonzalez in the Marrussia has done about 20 laps, locked into Luffield 18 times, nearly binned it at Woodcote twice and spun twice causing one red flag.

That's just Gonzalez. He's not worth paying attention to.

 

[paddyree]

It's not really representative of who the teams are considering.

He's in his thirties, and unlikely to make his debut any time soon.

That's because she's following a testing programme. Testing isn't about going completely flat out all the time. It's about covering all of the things the team needs you to do, testing tyre compounds and set-up changes and new parts. Fast lap times are the last thing on anyone's mind.

That's just Gonzalez. He's not worth paying attention to.

Thanks for the patronising tone.
Obviously I couldn't have worked any of that out myself after watching Motorsport for 25 years.
I was just stating what I am seeing today not that any of them will be future f1 drivers.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I was just commenting on what I'm watching today not suggesting that any of them will be future F1 drivers

You were posting in a thread on the driver transfer market. Speculating on which drivers might be on the verge of breaking into Formula 1 - and why - is the entire point of this thread. So if you weren't doing that, it begs the question of what you were doing.