The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10
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I heard about it but Hamilton denies it according to Autosport.
Personally I'm taking Bernie's account to be true. He may have bigged up certain things but I wouldn't put it past Hamilton to turn to Bernie to engineer a move for him.
More interestingly, I think, is what does Red Bull do if Webber retires? What are their options in terms of available drivers?
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Well what he said was that Hamilton had a meeting with him last summer and asked if Bernie could get him in to Redbull (this was before Webber had signed the contract extention) there were preliminary talks between Hamilton and Redbull but they decided to stay loyal to Webber, Bernie had also suggested that he should try Mercedes and that Hamilton just rolled his eyes when he brought it up!
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It's believed Ferrari are eyeing off Hulkenberg for 2014.
It's also highly unlikely that they will take someone from outside their young driver programme. To do so would undermine it, and prove it to be nothing more than an expensive waste of time.
Furthermore, there has been nothing to connect Hulkenberg to Red Bull before.
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It would be cool to see Bianchi take over for Massa in 2015 if he keeps this performance up.
Hulk I think will eventually end up in a top team, but not Ferrari.
Nothing to base this on, just speculating.
Bild reporting that this is Mark's last year at RBR:
http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/no-new-f1-contract-for-webber-in-2014-season/
Bild's known for making stuff up though, so we'll just have to wait and see if this comes true, not exactly a hard thing to predict though on the same token.
But let's just pretend this is valid. In 2014 I would like to see Mark at Lotus, Grosjean at Sauber, Vergne at RBR,
Hulk I think will eventually end up in a top team, but not Ferrari.
Nothing to base this on, just speculating.
Bild reporting that this is Mark's last year at RBR:
http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/no-new-f1-contract-for-webber-in-2014-season/
Bild's known for making stuff up though, so we'll just have to wait and see if this comes true, not exactly a hard thing to predict though on the same token.
But let's just pretend this is valid. In 2014 I would like to see Mark at Lotus, Grosjean at Sauber, Vergne at RBR,
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I think it's better to start a thread for the 2014 lineup discussion
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Vettel's results have probably gone far toward balancing the accounts of the young driver program. By the same token, however, the sacking of Buemi and Alguersuari and retention of Webber showed that RB is not afraid to cut bait if they think Toro Rosso-assigned drivers are unlikely to progress further. And I don't know that it's possible to make a case that Vergne and Ricciardo are better than their immediate predecessors. A year or so on, they look like same old, same old to me. When Webber leaves, wouldn't they have to ask the question, why replace him with one of these TR guys when they're really no better than the two we got rid of?
Edit: Re Ferrari, wouldn't Massa have something to say about that, on the track? If he keeps out-qualifying Alonso (which he might; Fernando isn't in the Vettel/Hamilton class as a one-lap artist) and scoring points, where's the case for replacing him? Last year, sure, he would have been gone on merit if Webber had said yes. Now, the merit argument is looking like it'll stack up more on Massa's side.
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He still only finished 10th though, behind Daniel...
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Ricciardo helped himself quite a bit this weekend.
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I thought I'd bump this thread because I've been hearing some more rumours about potential driver movements, both for 2013 and in 2014:
- Nico Hulkenberg has supposedly had his contract with Sauber broken, though there is no word on whether it was Hulkenberg or Sauber who broke it. Hulkenberg's people were supposedly talking to Ferrari and Lotus at the Nurburgring about potentially replacing Felipe Massa or Romain Grosjean.
- Peter Sauber has admitted that the team has failed to pay their suppliers, but denies that they have not paid their staff. Several parties are believed to be in contention for a takeover bid, including a Russian banker who owns SMP Bank (who sponsor Cometc in Formula Renault 3.5).
- Jean-Eric Vergne has been mentioned as a potential replacement for Grosjean as well. Given that Toro Rosso seem to give their drivers two years to perform, it's been suggested that he could go to Lotus to satisfy Eric Boullier's desire to have a French driver in the team. However, Grosjean's podium at the Nurburgring might have changed the situation.
- Paul di Resta and Pastor Maldonado have also been connected to a Lotus seat, but some of Maldonado's comments seem to imply that Williams is depending on him and PDVSA for their future, so I'm guessing he'll stay where he is. As for di Resta, I wouldn't be surprised if he (or his people) started talk of a move to Lotus; I'm pretty sure they did it last year with McLaren.
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All consistent with stuff I've seen. Andrew Benson did have a piece today that in a by-the-way fashion said Hulkenberg hasn't impressed the staff at Sauber. Left unsaid of course is whether the staff at Sauber have impressed Hulkenberg. I'd imagine not, given the dog of a car he's driving. He is being sized up by Ferrari, but may prefer Lotus.
The Vergne-to-Lotus speculation has featured on other boards. I'm having trouble seeing it. Ricciardo this season (not so much last) has made a clear case not only for staying in F1 but moving closer to the front of the grid. Vergne doesn't appear to be much better, if at all, than the Chilton/Gutierrez/van der Garde class of pay drivers. I can see him getting sacked by STR at season's end, whereas for Ricciardo that would be a real injustice.
Di Resta clearly wants to move up, question is will there be a seat. He is a sourpuss but also is a safe pair of hands that will deliver the points a car merits. Not really WDC material, whereas Hulkenberg might be, but compared to the likes of Massa and Grosjean he's far more reliable.
You'll see lots of speculation in the Benson piece about Maldonado, who on one hand is locked by contract to Williams and on the other wants a better drive, most likely a Lotus. The massive funding behind him would make him an attractive option for Lotus. That he's fast and seems to have learned (a bit) from his early contretemps is a plus.
Edit: I've also been seeing hints from multiple sources that Alonso may not be happy at Ferrari. Martin Brundle is the latest to chime in about that. It's all very gossipy but I've little doubt it's based on stuff people are hearing in the paddock.
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That all seems strangely plausible except Maldonado as you mention seems unlikely. Unless Massa has another burst of improvement I can certainly see him going. Hulkenberg seems a good bet and it was obvious from Melbourne that he made a mistake going to Sauber.
With another great performance I think Ricciardo is probably becoming strong favourite for Red Bull which could mean another brand new driver lineup at STR next year if JEV is moved on. The French connection is plausible but it depends if Bouiller sees a better race driver in JEV over captain crashalot.
It's going to be interesting certainly, Webber has set the revolving door slightly ajar, Massa moving on would set it into full movement.
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I wouldn't rule out Maldonado leaving Williams. Contracts in F1 seem made to be broken -- and there's a history of that at Williams. I watched the year-end-review video of the 1990 season a couple weekends ago and was amused to see that at one race, Frank Williams in an interview was adamant that Jean Alesi was under ironclad contract and would be driving for the team in 1991, then at the next race it was announced that Alesi would be driving for Ferrari. This was back in the days when Williams was at the sharp end of the grid, obviously. They carry a lot less weight now.
I was actually thinking about it the other way, I can't really see any other team wanting Maldonado at the moment when there are so many other prospects out there. The Williams is obviously not up to pace this year but he's really not done anything of note this year or most of last year.
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I can see why Hulkenberg would want to leave Sauber right now, but based on their 2012 performance I don't blame him for joining them.
Where would Grosjean go if he were to leave Lotus? I don't think Vettel would be too keen on being his team-mate.
Where would Grosjean go if he were to leave Lotus? I don't think Vettel would be too keen on being his team-mate.
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The rumour is that Hulkenburg actually hasn't been paid his salary recently and that he's looking for other seats not just because Sauber have been disappointing, but also because they are in financial trouble.
If Andrew Benson isn't talking crap again (and he usually does), Sauber are continuing to reinforce the impression that they think very little of race drivers to the point of being blind. Hulkenburg has been far and away the better Sauber driver this year and has taken the car far beyond its expected position several times.
I don't understand how they can get to this conclusion when they kept Kobayashi and Perez for so long and neither really impressed quite as much as Hulk has (well Perez had some good runs but not quite as consistently as Hulk has).
Its funny that at Force India, Hulk was extremely consistent, especially in the second half of the season. As soon as he moves to Sauber with their split-strategies and poor in-race strategy calls he's suddenly rather inconsistent.
I want to like Sauber as a team, they pick drivers I really like. But they spoil it all by screwing the drivers and blaming it all on them. (again, assuming this rumour is true).
If Andrew Benson isn't talking crap again (and he usually does), Sauber are continuing to reinforce the impression that they think very little of race drivers to the point of being blind. Hulkenburg has been far and away the better Sauber driver this year and has taken the car far beyond its expected position several times.
I don't understand how they can get to this conclusion when they kept Kobayashi and Perez for so long and neither really impressed quite as much as Hulk has (well Perez had some good runs but not quite as consistently as Hulk has).
Its funny that at Force India, Hulk was extremely consistent, especially in the second half of the season. As soon as he moves to Sauber with their split-strategies and poor in-race strategy calls he's suddenly rather inconsistent.
I want to like Sauber as a team, they pick drivers I really like. But they spoil it all by screwing the drivers and blaming it all on them. (again, assuming this rumour is true).
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If you're Lotus or Sauber or Force India, there's 30 to 40 million reasons ($) to want Maldonado. And he's not slow, unlike some pay/funded/sponsored drivers on the current grid.
Edit: There's a firm report with Boullier confirming he's been talking to Hulkenberg and Di Resta. Also includes quotes from Helmut Marko apparently designed to downplay Raikkonen's chances at RBR.
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JGreens
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Not just hearing, but seeing as well. Ferrari are going backwards - it's now been what, five years since they were truly competitive for both titles. Massa is a dead duck seat, but if Alonso went - Montezemolo must take action now I feel. Tombazis is long-due shown the exit, along with the mini-team of car management.
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Ferrari's difficulties have been obvious throughout Alonso's tenure -- they've never had a car while he's been there that could compete on pure pace -- but he has until now been a very loyal camper. Suddenly, this past weekend, multiple media sources started floating the Alonso-might-leave talk. I doubt that's a coincidence. Sounds to me like he dropped an off-the-record hint or two to hint a few reporters he trusts, or at least trusts to talk, even as he was saying publicly in other forums that the team needs to step up its development of this year's car.
But the obvious question begged is, where could Fernando go? It's too early for him to retire, RBR likely wouldn't pair him with Vettel and McLaren is out as long as Dennis and/or Whitmarsh are there. It'd be tough for him to pull a Kimi and take a paid sabbatical. Follow Webber to the WEC? Doubtful, methinks.
But the obvious question begged is, where could Fernando go? It's too early for him to retire, RBR likely wouldn't pair him with Vettel and McLaren is out as long as Dennis and/or Whitmarsh are there. It'd be tough for him to pull a Kimi and take a paid sabbatical. Follow Webber to the WEC? Doubtful, methinks.
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In the build-up to the German Grand Prix, James Allen asked Ricciardo about this, mentioning that his sources had indicated that a large faction within Red Bull were pushing for Ricciardo to get the vacant seat. You can be cynical about it because the interview was done for Australain television, but while Ricciardo downplayed his chances, his reaction made it pretty clear that he has spoken to Red Bull about it.
Williams are relying on Maldonado for money. They'll only get rid of him or let him go if they can find a new sponsor to replace PDVSA. The only person who might fit that bill is Daniel Juncadella, who gets money from the Astana Group, and the Astana Group has recently started sponsoring the team, albeit in a minor capacity.
Honestly, I think it's far more likely that Valtteri Bottas will leave Williams before Maldonado. Toto Wolff is Bottas' manager, so I could see Wolff using his position in Mercedes to get Bottas into a Force India in exchange for cheaper engines for Williams.
Boullier isn't particularly subtle. He has also stated his belief that Red Bull are seriously pushing for Raikkonen, but the way he phrases it makes me think he's doing it to try and lure sponsors and investors into the fold. Especially since the rumoured Honeywell deal never happened. Lotus will fight tooth and nail to keep Raikkonen, because without him, they don't have much. He's much harder to replace than Grosjean.
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That's plausible. He's among the guys making a case this year for deserving a ride farther up the grid. I'd put him there with Hulkenberg, Di Resta, Ricciardo and Bianchi. In the end, though, I suspect paddock consensus will relegate Bottas and Bianchi to another year of seasoning at the tail end.
Maldonado is a special case in the discussion because of 1). the money attached to him; 2). his solid one-lap pace, and; 3). the historical shakiness of his racecraft. But for his racecraft he'd be a surefire choice for a Lotus seat. You can make the argument that the money is a two-edged sword, making him both attractive to a needy team and also key for Williams to retain. But I think if a better drive was truly on offer, Venezuela's new president, who seems very much cut from the same cloth as the old one, would come through with whatever buyout would be necessary to satisfy Williams. He'd just need to sell a few more barrels of oil to make it up.
Edit: I think a Hulkenberg/Di Resta pairing is Boullier's best fallback option if Kimi leaves and might even be the best-case plan on the financial front, even though neither is funded. Lotus can look to 2014 reasonably confident of securing 4th place in the constructors; McLaren will be off-form again next year thanks to its engine situation. And if Ferrari does something stupid like retain Massa, 3rd for Lotus in the 2014 WCC wouldn't be out of the question. A truckload of Bernie's money would go a long way toward paying the troops.
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