The 2012 Driver transfer discussion/speculation thread

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Right then. If you saw it as a personal attack, that was not my intent. Apologies.
I think it will come down to Petrov and Sutil getting the last 2 seats. Maybe Jaime, but I doubt it.

It's hard for me to say I think the four all have an equal shot to some extent of getting a seat. I just can't pick one over the other.

I do like the fact that Chandok wants to go to the WEC, I'd like to see him make a name for himself there only because I don't see him doing so in F1.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think it will come down to Petrov and Sutil getting the last 2 seats. Maybe Jaime, but I doubt it.

There has been quite a bit of talk that at least one and possibly two occupied seats - Trulli at Caterham and Kobayashi at Sauber - becoming available in the near future. Although we've already covered most of what could reasonably be said about them in this thread, and since we're between Christmas and the New Year, no new information has emerged. With Frank Williams' comments that he wants to make a decision on his second driver before Christmas, and with Oksana Kosacheko's confidence that Petrov will have a plan for 2012 by the New Year, we might get something between now and Saturday ... but personally, I doubt it.

As for HRT, they have said they will not make a decision on the driver of car #23 until January.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

There has been quite a bit of talk that at least one and possibly two occupied seats - Trulli at Caterham and Kobayashi at Sauber - becoming available in the near future. Although we've already covered most of what could reasonably be said about them in this thread, and since we're between Christmas and the New Year, no new information has emerged. With Frank Williams' comments that he wants to make a decision on his second driver before Christmas, and with Oksana Kosacheko's confidence that Petrov will have a plan for 2012 by the New Year, we might get something between now and Saturday ... but personally, I doubt it.

As for HRT, they have said they will not make a decision on the driver of car #23 until January.

In other words a high chance of slow news for the remainder of this year, well hope everyone has a happy new year.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Yeah, I wouldn't be expecting anything until around January 3rd or 4th. When Nick Heidfeld erred when it came to getting a seat at the end of 2009 - he was too fixated on Mercedes, but Schumacher got the seat - he said he had to wait until the first week of January to start talking with other teams.

That said, Kimi Raikkonen will test a Renault some time in January, and four cars will be released in the first week of February. So there's not going to be an extended period of silence.

 

[RTSolvalou]

Disappointed, I hoped this would be wrapped up by now. Personally I'm not ruling out the announcement of Petrov's future coming before the new year at all.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

That, I think, is perhaps the most-likely announcement to be made before the New Year. But I'm not expecting it - just because a driver signs a contract, it doesn't mean he will be announced as having done so that day. Look at the announcement of Romain Grosjean joining Renault; the team put out a press release just before 6:00am local time. So unless they worked through the night to finalise the contract, I doubt Grosjean was announced as soon as he had signed up. It was more likely that they had worked late into the night on the deal, and then quite literally made the announcement first thing in the morning.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Jarno Trulli is feeling the heat:

Jarno Trulli slams 'less committed' pay drivers

Veteran Italian Jarno Trulli has hit out at the growing influence of so-called 'pay drivers' in Formula One.

Even though Trulli has one year of his contract at Caterham remaining, his position has been subject of speculation with Vitaly Petrov, who has been dumped by Renault, linked with a possible move.

But Trulli took a thinly-disguised swipe at what had happened at Renault in 2011 when it employed Petrov and Bruno Senna, both of whom brought considerable sponsorship with them.

"[Robert] Kubica is a great driver who can get the very best from the car," Trulli told La Repubblica. "Because of that they were a dark horse. When Robert was out, that was the end. Petrov was not in a position to lead the team, and Senna showed that he was not good enough."

Senna replaced the experienced Nick Heidfeld mid-season. "With his experience, Nick scored almost as many points as Petrov even though he [Heidfeld] did only half the season," Trulli said. "There is no rule, but it is true that those who pay are less accustomed to suffering. They are less committed. Hiring them is a business decision but in my opinion it's not worth it."

However, Red Bull boss Christian Horner said the issue of pay drivers had grown out of hand. "For a team it has always been about finding the right balance between financial considerations and talent," he said. "It's something that is as old as Formula One."

I smirked when I read this. Jarno Trulli was once regarded as Formula 1's finest one-lap specialist, which gave him quite a reputation for qualifying well. However, in the eighteen races that they had together this year, Trulli was out-qualified by Heikki Kovalainen something like fifteen times to three. So for him to accuse pay-drivers of being "less committed" seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black given that Trulli is clearly not very good at the one thing he was highly regarded for, once upon a time.

 

[RTSolvalou]

Thanks, was a good laugh.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I smirked when I read this. Jarno Trulli was once regarded as Formula 1's finest one-lap specialist, which gave him quite a reputation for qualifying well. However, in the eighteen races that they had together this year, Trulli was out-qualified by Heikki Kovalainen something like fifteen times to three. So for him to accuse pay-drivers of being "less committed" seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black given that Trulli is clearly not very good at the one thing he was highly regarded for, once upon a time.

You answered this yourself here. The man is 37 years old, do you honestly expect him to be the same Jarno Trulli anno 2004-2005? Besides, Jarno hasn't got anything to prove so I'm not really getting what you're laughing at Jarno for. It's only logical Jarno is being beaten by a far younger driver like Heikki, who is not the worst driver on the grid as we all know.

 

[Liquid]

Diniz, Inoue, Suzuki, de Cesaris, Montermini, Takagi... there have always been pay drivers in the sport. Sometimes few, sometimes many.

A big problem is that there are talented drivers who are being frozen out by either pay drivers or by the fact that the route to F1 (via GP2) is becoming so rigid and competative that there are drivers aged 22, 23 who have one shot before being axed. I understand that GP2 is the F1 nursery and it does a good job but if you're 23 and on the F1 scrapheap, it must be quite disheartening.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The man is 37 years old, do you honestly expect him to be the same Jarno Trulli anno 2004-2005?

No, but I found it a bit rich of him to criticise Senna and Petrov for underperforming when they clearly had a bad car. Just look at Renault's results in Italy, Singapore and Japan. In Italy, they qualified in the top ten and scored points. In Singapore, they were miles off the pace to the point where Kovalainen came very close to beating the both of them. And then in Japan, they were back into Q3 and scoring points. Something clearly went very, very wrong in Singapore; the R31 was jsut horrendous. Jarno Trulli is smart enough and has been racing long enough to know that sometimes this happens - especially since he was so quick to blame an uncooperative power steering system in his car for his lack of pace. Yet he conveniently ignores this when he launches his attack on Senna and Petrov.

If I didn't know better, I'd say this was a Parthian shot from Trulli. He knows he's out of a seat for 2012, and so he's decided to criticise the team for it by focusing on the softest target he can find: whoever will replace him (probably Petrov, as Trulli seems to have the most contempt for him - Martin Brundle Tweeted about this a few days ago, and he very rarely talks about rumoured driver changes unless he has a good reason to believe what he is saying).

 

[Ardius]

Trulli has had valid contracts which were confirmed well in advance for the past 4-5 years and people keep bringing his name up as speculation to be replaced. Anyone in this position would get pretty sick and tired of this talk. I'm pretty fed up reading this stuff and defending Jarno, people have created this bizarre reputation for him which is completely unfair.

Why can't people leave Jarno alone? They left Fisichella alone.

I hate how people keep talking about Trulli lately like he is no where near Kovalainen. Yes - he's been out-qualified by 2-3 tenths on average pretty much all year. And yes, Kovalainen has normally been ahead when both cars were running. But he wasn't entire laps down or seconds off the pace of his teammate. I would have thought Chandhok's brief appearance would have made it pretty damn obvious what kind of performance Trulli brings to the team, but apparently not.
Trulli is better than a pay driver such as Petrov or Senna.

Again, Trulli is getting like Button - reputation in tatters and constant criticism. In fact, supporting Trulli lately has been very much like supporting Button in 2007/2008.

 

[Peter.]

Because Fisichella kept himself quiet and actually performed well in comparison to his teammate Sutil. Trulli may have been useful to Lotus at the start, but after 2 years, there isn't much left to do that Heikki and a young hotshot wouldn't be able to do better. That team is done with its childhood, and is now going to be seriously fighting for results beyond being the fastest new team.

It's time for Jarno to hang up the helmet. The man is 37 years old, and obviously underperforming. While Heikki is busy on the tail end of the midfield, Trulli is not doing the same. The famous one lap wonder is being thrashed by Heikki in qualifying, blaming it on power steering initially, then when new power steering arrived, he still continued to underperform.

Petrov, Senna, Alguersuari and Buemi need a place to go. Come on Jarno.

 

[Pupik]

I smirked when I read this. Jarno Trulli was once regarded as Formula 1's finest one-lap specialist, which gave him quite a reputation for qualifying well. However, in the eighteen races that they had together this year, Trulli was out-qualified by Heikki Kovalainen something like fifteen times to three. So for him to accuse pay-drivers of being "less committed" seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black given that Trulli is clearly not very good at the one thing he was highly regarded for, once upon a time.

I think he's the Third Best Driver out there right now...

 

[Sach]

I think he's the Third Best Driver out there right now...

Not sure if serious.

 

[Peter.]

I think he's the Third Best Driver out there right now...

No, that's still Ralf Schumacher.

 

[Pupik]

Not sure if serious.

Go read my last ten years of posts on this F1 board and decide for yourself.

 

[Ardius]

Because Fisichella kept himself quiet and actually performed well in comparison to his teammate Sutil. Trulli may have been useful to Lotus at the start, but after 2 years, there isn't much left to do that Heikki and a young hotshot wouldn't be able to do better. That team is done with its childhood, and is now going to be seriously fighting for results beyond being the fastest new team.

It's time for Jarno to hang up the helmet. The man is 37 years old, and obviously underperforming. While Heikki is busy on the tail end of the midfield, Trulli is not doing the same. The famous one lap wonder is being thrashed by Heikki in qualifying, blaming it on power steering initially, then when new power steering arrived, he still continued to underperform.

Petrov, Senna, Alguersuari and Buemi need a place to go. Come on Jarno.

A pole position and a 2nd place at Spa doesn't suddenly change the rest of Fisi's Force India results nor his seasons with Alonso.

It wasn't so long ago that Trulli was going toe-to-toe with Hamilton for the victory at Suzuka if we're going to talk singular results. Funny that Trulli also beat Kovalainen in the WDC this year - there is more to that than meets the eye of course but that applies both ways.

People talk like Trulli hasn't helped himself and he only has himself to blame for the reputation he has - but this is utter crap. People have been talking like this long before he joined Lotus/Caterham. This isn't about Trulli deserving a seat in F1, its simply about people disliking Trulli - and then "educating" everyone else that Trulli doesn't deserve a seat. If this was a more popular driver in similar circumstances (Fisichella) we wouldn't see this OTT criticism.

Not to mention the endless "he isn't interested anymore" "Trulli lacks the motivation".

Like I said, this reminds me too much of Button pre-2009. I sincerely hope a similar phoenix rise occurs for Trulli one day.

 

[Peter.]

Anyone who was a second driver at Renault under Briatore's rule was destined for disaster. Briatore is the most biased team principal ever. Biased towards the first driver. You can go back to the Benetton days, Schumacher got all of the attention, Verstappen, Herbert struggled in comparison, and Briatore dropped them. Alonso joined the team, Trulli struggled in comparison in the second half of 2004, and Briatore dropped him. Fisichella also struggled in comparison to Alonso. Briatore sees the second driver as little more than an opportunity to help the first driver to be succesful. Singapore 2008 and China 2006 come to my mind.

Fisichella's years at renault were good, but with a teammate like Alonso, and a team principal like Biratore, you have to understand why they struggle.

 

[mr_geez]

Anyone who was a second driver at Renault under Briatore's rule was destined for disaster. Briatore is the most biased team principal ever. Biased towards the first driver. You can go back to the Benetton days, Schumacher got all of the attention, Verstappen, Herbert struggled in comparison, and Briatore dropped them. Alonso joined the team, Trulli struggled in comparison in the second half of 2004, and Briatore dropped him. Fisichella also struggled in comparison to Alonso. Briatore sees the second driver as little more than an opportunity to help the first driver to be succesful. Singapore 2008 and China 2006 come to my mind.

Fisichella's years at renault were good, but with a teammate like Alonso, and a team principal like Biratore, you have to understand why they struggle.

No. 2nd drivers at Renault struggled because they were always much worse then their counterpart in car number 1 and as results show us, Flavio Briatore acted correctly by turning Toleman team into home of multiple world champions Benetton (later Renault F1) team.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Trulli is better than a pay driver such as Petrov or Senna.

But is he necessarily the best driver for the team? Sure, he might be critical of Petrov and Senna - but what about someone like Adrian Sutil, who Auto Motor und Sport believe could be the man to join Caterham? Sutil is a proven quantity, but has his personal sponsors. Their money would not normally be a condition of his joining the team, but it would be necessary to buy Trulli out of his seat.

 

[peter_vod69]

I think Caterham would be wise to take an up-and-comer, or a known quantity like Sutil than to stick with a never-quite-was like Jarno.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think Trulli's problem is that his career has piqued, but he remains convinced that the best is yet to come. He was useful to the team in that he was experienced enough to develop the car and propel them to become the pre-eminent "new" team. I think most people are expecting Caterham to (at least) occasionally challenge for points next year. But once it became apparent that Kovalainen was out-performing Trulli, Trulli's usefulness began to decline, and we're now in a situation where promising young drivers who are ready for Formula 1 - like Robert Wickens (yes, I know he has backing from Marussia, but that's beside the point) - are stuck on the sidelines because older drivers like Trulli and (to a lesser extent) Barrichello insist on staying in the sport.

 

[Ardius]

But is he necessarily the best driver for the team? Sure, he might be critical of Petrov and Senna - but what about someone like Adrian Sutil, who Auto Motor und Sport believe could be the man to join Caterham? Sutil is a proven quantity, but has his personal sponsors. Their money would not normally be a condition of his joining the team, but it would be necessary to buy Trulli out of his seat.

Yes Trulli is better than Sutil.

 

[Tom]

I think Trulli's problem is that his career has piqued, but he remains convinced that the best is yet to come. He was useful to the team in that he was experienced enough to develop the car and propel them to become the pre-eminent "new" team. I think most people are expecting Caterham to (at least) occasionally challenge for points next year. But once it became apparent that Kovalainen was out-performing Trulli, Trulli's usefulness began to decline, and we're now in a situation where promising young drivers who are ready for Formula 1 - like Robert Wickens (yes, I know he has backing from Marussia, but that's beside the point) - are stuck on the sidelines because older drivers like Trulli and (to a lesser extent) Barrichello insist on staying in the sport.

I agree entirely. Trulli seems to have lacked motivation this season and I'm aware he wasn't comfortable with the cars power steering system but when it was updated to his liking, he still managed to get out-qualified by Kovalainen on various occasions. He, like Barrichello has reached his peak and although it saddens me to say it, they need to move on.

 

[Prince.M5]

I agree entirely. Trulli seems to have lacked motivation this season and I'm aware he wasn't comfortable with the cars power steering system but when it was updated to his liking, he still managed to get out-qualified by Kovalainen on various occasions. He, like Barrichello has reached his peak and although it saddens me to say it, they need to move on.

I also agree that Trulli seems to have lacked motivation from this season's mishaps especially as you said, not being comfortable with the car's power steering system. It was updated in Hungary but didn't really push him to the way we exected he would be until the end of the season.

He may have reached his peak, but I'd give him one more season with what Caterham claimed to be a much better car than this year's and might be a challenger for a point finishing. He should be better or on par with Kovalainen otherwise it is better for him to move on to somewhere else and make way for younger drivers, pay or not to fill the seat.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I think Caterham would be wise to take an up-and-comer, or a known quantity like Sutil than to stick with a never-quite-was like Jarno.

Though I don't agree with you comments probably 8 out of 10, this right here was great. Jarno never came to fruition, I mean yeah he pulled off awesome one laps in qualifying, but if you can't end it in a win then what is the point. You were basically fastest for a lap? Oh wow! Jarno doesn't have room to talk and will not go down in the books as a name to remember when all is said and done, now if this were Alonso, Webber, Vettel, Kimi, Button, or Hamilton (any year but this year), Shumi and the list could extend to Nico or Glock.

Also Ardius it seems your post show a obvious bias toward Trulli, I mean I enjoy Hamilton, but a wise fan knows when to critique what/who they back and get out of the way of blind faith. Just saying

 

[prisonermonkeys]

He may have reached his peak, but I'd give him one more season with what Caterham claimed to be a much better car than this year's and might be a challenger for a point finishing. He should be better or on par with Kovalainen otherwise it is better for him to move on to somewhere else and make way for younger drivers, pay or not to fill the seat.

Sorry, but I completely disagree with this. Trulli doesn't need one more chance.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Sorry, but I completely disagree with this. Trulli doesn't need one more chance.

Exactly, I think Minardi, Gauloises Prost Peugeot, Jordan, Renault F1, Toyota F1, and Now Caterham. I think the guy has had enough chances and years in Formula 1. Wow six teams and has been in F1 the third longest after Barichello and Shumi.

 

[Prince.M5]

Sorry, but I completely disagree with this. Trulli doesn't need one more chance.

Exactly, I think Minardi, Gauloises Prost Peugeot, Jordan, Renault F1, Toyota F1, and Now Caterham. I think the guy has had enough chances and years in Formula 1. Wow six teams and has been in F1 the third longest after Barichello and Shumi.

I'm just saying, perhaps I'm being too generous. It doesn't matter though, because I think I know how Sir Tony will react if he's not performing well. I wouldn't be surprised either if he's going to be kicked mid-season and replaced by any young drivers...