The 2012 Driver transfer discussion/speculation thread

[RodrigoDLL]

It's the same sponsor that put Senna in Lotus last year, look up pictures for the logo on the car, just ahead of the driver. EBX is the holding company for OGX, a recent startup on brazilian Oil & Gas sector. Eike Batista is the owner.

(I'm having trouble inserting the picture, but here is a link)
http://autocircuito.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/bruno_senna_eike.jpg

And from what I understand, "He will run for Williams" could be interpreted as either a race seat or a testing one...

So, the same rumour from last year keeps on... still not confirmed, but strong.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I just heard the most bizarre rumour: HRT are talking Argentine touring car driver José María López. You may remember him as the obscure Renault test driver that Ken Anderson and Peter Windsor ear-marked for USF1 before it was put out of its misery. I can only imagine that the Argentine government has agreed to bankroll him - again - in the hopes of getting an Argentine driver back into the sport to bring Formula 1 back into the public consciousness before making a bid for a revival of the Argentine Grand Prix at the Velociudad Zárate.

 

[hawkeye122]

Now, I know I'm mixing politics and racing here....

All of the countries ruled by Single-parties, mostly in Africa/Middle East, have collapsed (Or had major uprisings, etc)

It's a long shot, but what if similar things happen in South America? The groundwork has been laid down already... But if Venezuela (and now maybe Argentina?) go under, what happens to their respective drivers? No money, no reason to keep them around.

Mostly, Williams would be screwed, and maybe now HRT as well.

Thats the end of my conspiracy/profound thought/whackjob idea that probably wont happen.

 

[Mr. S]

I just heard the most bizarre rumour: HRT are talking Argentine touring car driver José María López. You may remember him as the obscure Renault test driver that Ken Anderson and Peter Windsor ear-marked for USF1 before it was put out of its misery. I can only imagine that the Argentine government has agreed to bankroll him - again - in the hopes of getting an Argentine driver back into the sport to bring Formula 1 back into the public consciousness before making a bid for a revival of the Argentine Grand Prix at the Velociudad Zárate.

I'd actually be glad to see an Argentinian GP again. It should be held at the Autódromo Oscar Alfredo Gálvez, Buenos Aires, like it's been in the 90s.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm told Lopez rubbished the reports himself. It appears a Spanish newspaper (surprise!) was throwing "stories" against the wall to see what sticks.

As for the circuit at Zarate, I'm also told that a lot of Argentines are sceptical about it. Despite the plan getting a lot of coverage elsewhere in the world, virtually nothing has been reported in Argentina.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Helmut Marko is a fecal orifice

What's his aim? Why does he feel the need to open his mouth? Does he want to destroy these guys' futures? Or is he only plain stupid?

 

[Tom]

Helmut Marko is a fecal orifice

What's his aim? Why does he feel the need to open his mouth? Does he want to destroy these guys' futures? Or is he only plain stupid?

That is the most ridiculous thing I've seen. Alguersuari out-performed Buemi easily this season and he's been dropped from a seat. Utterly stupid.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I'm not even taking sides between Buemi and Alguersuari. But what can possibly justify that Marko says about both, this:

"We haven't seen in them any possibility of growth."

 

[astrosdude91]

I think Helmut's expecting the Toro Rosso drivers to all be the next Vettel. And that just isn't realistic.

 

[Seismica]

So why put Buemi in the third driver seat if he's not a winner? Surely they would want to keep the option open to hire a driver who can actually compete should something happen to Vettel or Webber.

I do believe Helmut Marko is talking out of his arse/generally being an arse.

The car just wasn't good enough. The STR in 2008 was maybe the 4th best car come the end of the season, even Bourdais managed to do really well on a good day, and was even in contention for some podiums, but the STR of the past two seasons has consistently been scrapping in the midfield, and only usually the 7th or 8th fastest car, which actually makes the points scored by both drivers quite impressive. Maybe they have some data that points to them not being as good or as consistent as Vettel, but then again you could say that about most drivers on the grid, it doesn't mean they can't be winners.

 

[Lizard]

changed mind delete

 

[Liquid]

STR struggled last year because they had to build their own car and not just use an old RBR one. This year, they and their drivers both improved I felt, but as we know STR is simply a nursery for the junior Red Bull drivers and well, they clearly feel that Buemi and Alguersuari had had enough time and it was time for two new drivers to get a real chance in F1.

Is it unfair? Yes. Yes it is. But it's Red Bull GmbH's time, money and effort and what they say goes. Nothing we can do about it but hope that the two outed drivers get (deserved drives) elsewhere.

 

[Rossell2]

So why put Buemi in the third driver seat if he's not a winner? Surely they would want to keep the option open to hire a driver who can actually compete should something happen to Vettel or Webber.

I do believe Helmut Marko is talking out of his arse/generally being an arse.

Wanted to say this myself but you beat me to the punch.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Helmut Marko is a fecal orifice

What's his aim? Why does he feel the need to open his mouth? Does he want to destroy these guys' futures? Or is he only plain stupid?

I think people are far too harsh on Marko, simply because of the way he treated Mark Webber after Istanbul in 2010. However unjustified that was, the man has what Toro Rosso in particular needs: a certain degree of ruthlessness. Look at their driver line-up for the past few years - neither of their drivers have really set the world alight. Sebastien Buemi joined Red Bull as reserve driver this year, and has admitted that he is angling for Webber's race seat in 2013, but can anyone honestly say he would be a viable choice for the team? By rights, he probably should have been dropped at the end of 2010, if not sooner. Meanwhile, Toro Rosso has two highly-rated rookies waiting in the wings. If you were in Marko's position, what would you do? Keep the under-performing Buemi, or take a chance on a promising young talent.

Formula 1 can be cruel. It's the nature of the beast. I'm not entirely sure what you're expecting from Marko, but you can hardly expect him to make decisions on driver line-ups based on whose feelings will not be hurt.

I think Helmut's expecting the Toro Rosso drivers to all be the next Vettel. And that just isn't realistic.

But is it necessarily wrong? We're talking about Formula 1 here - being good simply isn't good enough. The drivers need to be great.

 

[CarolinaBlue704]

I feel for both Alguersuari and Buemi. I think they both showed enough to warrant a seat in Formula 1.

But I am excited to watch Ricciardo and Vergne at STR.

 

[takatasan]

I feel for both Alguersuari and Buemi. I think they both showed enough to warrant a seat in Formula 1.

But I am excited to watch Ricciardo and Vergne at STR.

Both drivers must have been stuned to learn neither would have a seat

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I think they both showed enough to warrant a seat in Formula 1.

The point of the Young Driver Program is not to find drivers who are good enough for Formula 1. The point of the Young Driver Program is to find drivers who are good enough to win World Championships.

 

[CarolinaBlue704]

The point of the Young Driver Program is not to find drivers who are good enough for Formula 1. The point of the Young Driver Program is to find drivers who are good enough to win World Championships.

Agreed. I didn't say their performance warranted a seat at STR or Red Bull. Just a seat, somewhere, in Formula 1.

 

[Lizard]

Agreed. I didn't say their performance warranted a seat at STR or Red Bull. Just a seat, somewhere, in Formula 1.

Actually I think this is why everyones hating on Helmut. Not because he dropped them but because they dont have a race seat anywhere.

 

[Peter.]

That is the most ridiculous thing I've seen. Alguersuari out-performed Buemi easily this season and he's been dropped from a seat. Utterly stupid.

No, he did not, or at least not easily. Jaime beat Buemi thanks to luck and a better strategy. I think that Buemi was the better choice, as he's more mature and consistent, and if you ask me, faster too.

Buemi and Alguersuari can't prove themselves to be winning material unless they have a car that can do more than just wrestle with the other midfielders, and often be the slowest of them. Red Bull won't give STR the money and resources to do more than be a midfielder simply because they don't need to, STR being nothing more than a Driver Academy to them.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

According to Vitaly Petrov's PR, his fate could be announced on the 10th.

 

[Pupik]

Helmut Marko is a fecal orifice

What's his aim? Why does he feel the need to open his mouth? Does he want to destroy these guys' futures? Or is he only plain stupid?

Ask Marko how well his F1 career went...

 

[F1 fan]

Well that's hardly fair. He didn't set the world on fire, but it was ended due to him being hit in the eye with a stone.

 

[Ardius]

Helmut Marko is a fecal orifice

What's his aim? Why does he feel the need to open his mouth? Does he want to destroy these guys' futures? Or is he only plain stupid?

Yes he is stupid. He's made comments on Webber's retirement before too. Dietrich Mateschitz should have Marko hidden away from the paddock or something as he does nothing good for Red Bull's image, at least not for the fans anyway.
I'll never forget one of Ted Kravitz' little snippets of input in a practice session. He said that he once tried to get a word with Christian Horner only for Marko to say to Horner "it appears the monkey has turned up to speak to you again". So it seems even the press appear to have a pretty low opinion of him.

There appears to be some nasty people behind the scenes at Red Bull, it seems the media only sniff this stuff occasionally. Franz Tost isn't much better than Marko - he even goes as far as physically attacking the drivers!

The best part about all this is that Marko has said this after Buemi signed to be Red Bull reserve driver. Not exactly Mr Motivator.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

He didn't set the world on fire

He tends to set the careers of young drivers on fire, though.

He's made comments on Webber's retirement before too.

I wonder ... Mark Webber currently has a joint venture with Christian Horner in GP3. Arden International's entry is registered as MW Arden under an Australian racing licence. They ran Mitch Evans in GP3 last season. So if Webber is looking at putting his name to a young driver program, then perhaps he might have a future as Marko's replacement managing the Red Bull YDP. He'd certainly have a better grasp of what it takes to succeed in Formula 1 these days, and while he may not be as ruthless as Marko is, he'd no doubt have a much more positive approach to it all.

 

[hawkeye122]

I wonder ... Mark Webber currently has a joint venture with Christian Horner in GP3. Arden International's entry is registered as MW Arden under an Australian racing licence. They ran Mitch Evans in GP3 last season. So if Webber is looking at putting his name to a young driver program, then perhaps he might have a future as Marko's replacement managing the Red Bull YDP. He'd certainly have a better grasp of what it takes to succeed in Formula 1 these days, and while he may not be as ruthless as Marko is, he'd no doubt have a much more positive approach to it all.

Mixing business with your drivers doesnt seem like a brilliant idea to me... Sure it builds trust, but when it all falls apart...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Surprised that no one reported it yet maybe I missed it, but Alguersuari has said that he wont drive HRT and rather be given a third seat at a bigger Constructor

 

[astrosdude91]

And Buemi has said that he would like to do Le Mans in 2012 while he's sidelined.

http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport/story/67478.html

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

And Buemi has said that he would like to do Le Mans in 2012 while he's sidelined.

http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsport/story/67478.html

Yeah I saw that as well. I'd like to see him win at Le Mans.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Look at their driver line-up for the past few years - neither of their drivers have really set the world alight. Sebastien Buemi joined Red Bull as reserve driver this year, and has admitted that he is angling for Webber's race seat in 2013, but can anyone honestly say he would be a viable choice for the team? By rights, he probably should have been dropped at the end of 2010, if not sooner. Meanwhile, Toro Rosso has two highly-rated rookies waiting in the wings. If you were in Marko's position, what would you do? Keep the under-performing Buemi, or take a chance on a promising young talent.

Under-performing? He beat Bourdais, by a similar margin to Vettel, with far less F1 experience than when Vettel did it. Not to mention Bourdais was the senior team member at Torro Rosso, and not a rookie getting used to F1 (like Bourdais was against Vettel).

Since then? The only guy you can compare Buemi to since then is Alguersuari, who has never had any other teammate. So how do we know that the Torro Rosso hasn't been completely horrible for the last two years and that the two young drivers have been driving superbly to get any points at all? Buemi had the most overtakes (not including first corner overtakes) last year and Jaime wasn't far behind in that ranking. Both have show reliable race craft and top class overtaking maneuvers. Buemi had worse luck with reliability and opportunities for points. What we don't know is their pace, because there is no standard to measure them too. They could both be as good as Vettel, we don't know. I'd like to see Buemi given a proper chance against someone who isn't Alguersuari. You might be surprised by his pace.