Will GT7 Get Left behind when Forza Motorsports 8 hits the Market?
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MonoTonouS
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There have been more VR head seats sold than wheels 🤣😅🤣
SestoScudo
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Honestly Fm1 to Fm4 were pretty much gold.
Xbox One era was disappointing.
Forza Motorsport and GT should get their act together.
While GT had useless music rallies dont forget with FM7's stupid driver outfits how immersion breaking it is seeing your opponents dressed as a gingerbread man.
So stupid and ridiculous. Developers actually waste their time on such mundane stuff.
Xbox One era was disappointing.
Forza Motorsport and GT should get their act together.
While GT had useless music rallies dont forget with FM7's stupid driver outfits how immersion breaking it is seeing your opponents dressed as a gingerbread man.
So stupid and ridiculous. Developers actually waste their time on such mundane stuff.
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- voodoovaj
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- hardvibes
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I haven't played GTS as much as I'm playing GT7' Sport mode, but this is what I remember
- You could see in real-time during the race if your DR/SR was improving/worsening
- At some point in time, penalties were handled better than in GT7
- At the beginning (or end) of a race you could check the livery an opponent had on his car, and download it
One could also argue that the physics were better for beginners.
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A Night Away
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Therein lies the rub. Polyphony so desperately pushed an eSports future with a game that the rest of the fanbase, that had been curated over a decade and a half didn't want or desire. It chased after the shine of a more established title in iRacing yet didn't even get close to that title in terms of penetration and outreach, and slowly brought in a single player element that was a half baked attempt to get back the fanbase from before that had largely ignored Sport.
Fast forward and the new game is announced. It's returned back to the single player roots that people actually wanted, except now it's pressed up against the realities of a gameplay loop that is long past stale, and combined with rampant monetization schemes, basically causes only the hardcore fans to stick around. And those hardcore fans only really care about single player, while Polyphony continually pokes and prods them to join the eSports race, when they are more content creating cars and occasionally joining online cops and robbers lobbies.
It's fascinating, but it's also kind of hilariously sad that Polyphony couldn't have realized that the wider fanbase doesn't give that much of a toss about competitive online racing, and simply wants to build and create cars, with the occasional jaunt into open lobbies. Now those who want the competitive online racing have either abandoned the game or have moved back to Sport because of problems that Polyphony don't seem interested in solving, and the single player fanbase is dwindling because there's not much meat to the bone once you realize that there hasn't been much in the way of content aside from cars added in what, months?
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I agree with a lot of the rest of your post, but this isn't the case; GT7 Sport Mode participation numbers, both Dailies and Time Trials, have pretty much been decent and really consistent throughout 2023. While the trophy stats definitely say a lot of the fanbase isn't into Sport Mode, those who are have definitely stuck with it through thick and thin.
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- jonoholland29
- JonoH29
Source? I really struggle to believe this.
Edit: found my own rudimentary sources.
PSVR2 sold 600,000 units in Q1 despite launching halfway through it. But I expect there will be a big drop off for Q2 but even if we’re being optimistic and saying the drop off was 50% you could say they’ve likely sold circa 900,000 units.
Sony PlayStation Reveals PSVR 2 Sales Figures for First Six Weeks Following Reports of Disappointing Performance
PlayStation reveals sales figures of around 600,000 PSVR 2 units in its first six weeks.
In 2022 alone - Logitech sold nearly 1.5 million game controllers. I can't find wheel specific sales, but just taking Logitech alone that's quite a large number when you consider Thrustmaster and Fanatec
Logitech Delivers Record FY 2022 Sales
Company Reports Ninth Consecutive Year of Growth; Profits Exceed FY22 Outlook SIX Swiss Exchange Ad hoc announcement pursuant to Art. 53 LR — Logitech International (SIX: LOGN) (Nasdaq: LOGI) today announced financial results for the fourth quarter and full Fiscal Year 2022, ended March 31...
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Yeah couldn’t agree more about how horribly tacky Forza has become, really annoying. At least GT still takes itself seriously as a serious racer. I think when it was Forza 4 vs GT5 there was a real argument that Forza had eclipsed GT but GT7 and GT Sport, for me, pulled GT back well ahead even arguably without doing anything amazing themselves because Forza went down the wrong path.
There’s a flip side though, and that’s that Forza at least still cares about being a big, immersive single player experience rather than going all out on competitive online sim racing, which personally I couldn’t care less about. Combine the best bits of both games together and you have the ultimate racing game. Combine the worst bits and you have something published by Midas.
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UKMikey
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Perhaps online but I no longer have PS Plus. My first experience in ACC which I bought this morning was a practice lap around Nurburgring GP which was fun to drive and felt sublime. My first experience in GT7 (besides the laughable Music Rally) was a Mini race in which the artificially boosted opponents suddenly powered past me on the straight after trailing for most of the lap. It didn't feel very racelike to me. Let's see what the new Forza brings to the table with hopefully better grip models and un-nerfed AI.
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Personally..
I didn’t want to race online until psvr2 arrived because the situational awareness of racing on a flat screen is 💩. In fact, i’d wager a significant portion of incidents in sport are due to people using bumper cam(or whatever) having no idea the other car is there.
Oh..as far as pc goes. Some of us work in mac centric industries. If i didn’t, iracing would have been the choice. But with the way things are gt7 with pavr2 is great. And lets face it. Psvr2 is the first vr headset to meet specs which don’t suck at less than a few k. Citing facebooks underpowered trash vr products as a reason vr hasn’t ‘taken off,’ has always felt hollow
MonoTonouS
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That's cute , but flawed . We are talking about forza so how about you pull out VR numbers for ALL pc headsets and not PSVR 2 which only works on playstation . You know like you pulled the numbers for all wheels sold on PC / Xbox/ and PS .Source? I really struggle to believe this.
Edit: found my own rudimentary sources.
PSVR2 sold 600,000 units in Q1 despite launching halfway through it. But I expect there will be a big drop off for Q2 but even if we’re being optimistic and saying the drop off was 50% you could say they’ve likely sold circa 900,000 units.
Sony PlayStation Reveals PSVR 2 Sales Figures for First Six Weeks Following Reports of Disappointing Performance
PlayStation reveals sales figures of around 600,000 PSVR 2 units in its first six weeks.in.ign.com
In 2022 alone - Logitech sold nearly 1.5 million game controllers. I can't find wheel specific sales, but just taking Logitech alone that's quite a large number when you consider Thrustmaster and Fanatec
Logitech Delivers Record FY 2022 Sales
Company Reports Ninth Consecutive Year of Growth; Profits Exceed FY22 Outlook SIX Swiss Exchange Ad hoc announcement pursuant to Art. 53 LR — Logitech International (SIX: LOGN) (Nasdaq: LOGI) today announced financial results for the fourth quarter and full Fiscal Year 2022, ended March 31...ir.logitech.com
A Night Away
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I mean...there's about a hundred legitimate reasons why the single player sucks. It's been well established over the time that the game has been out. eSports is one of them, and in that case, it's an issue that goes back to the previous game in the serious being a totally reactionary title.
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- jonoholland29
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Geez ok… I thought this was comparing GT7 (with its VR capabilities) to Forza without (currently) VR…
I’ll just leave you to it, but even still I’m skeptical that there are more VR race game users than wheel users - whatever the platform
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- voodoovaj
Penalties. Penalties we really good and restrictive at the midpoint of it's life and they were backed off from there. In GT7, it's like they abandoned the idea of penalties for everything but the most severe cases and it's been replaced with damage which is largely ignored. Not to mention that if someone takes you off track, the damage the victim sustains is usually far worse than any damage the aggressor might incur.
In GTS (at least at one point) penalties were something to be avoided in order to achieve success. Now, in GT7, penalties are a POTENTIAL side effect of success, so the contact goes unchecked.
Not only that, but with the lax penalties, people get far more aggressive in their car placement, which causes avoidable accidents. Then, these obviously ill advised car placement accidents leads to road rage and you get punted off the track because the other dude felt entitled.
Back in the early months of GTSport, all contact got a penalty, ergo, all contact was avoided because everyone knew that contact meant risking their race. Now, no one cares, and it's an abysmal cesspool of gameplay. I was one of the most vocal critics of the old system and stated many ways that it could have been improved. At no point did I ever say "make the penalties super lax"...but that's what they picked and the game is worse off for it.
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MonoTonouS
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I said there are more VR head sets than wheels . Why would it matter how many PSVR head sets there are for forza ? You also didn't just count how many wheels were sold on the PS4.
Not having VR support in a AAA racing game is laughable .
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I can't find actual total product sales numbers but I can find the the annual revenue from gaming wheel market, which was worth $19.3bn in 2021 and is expected to be worth $32.9bn by 2028.
By comparison, the revenue from the VR headset market is expected to be worth $9.3bn by the end of 2023.
So I would extrapolate from that, that there are significantly more gaming wheels sold than VR headsets as at this time. That could change eventually, but the forecasts for the next few years place the wheel market as significantly larger.
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Funny thing is that as far as in game performance.
Psvr2 > dd pro 8nm
Not that i don’t positively love the wheel. I do. And with vr the feedback from the wheel makes..more(?)..sense. After buying both over the past couple months, if asked, i’d say that if both aren’t possible..Get vr first, and then the wheel. Its that relevant.
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Answering the original question... Sure, some might leave GT7 for Forza but also some others will play both... And I think there would be a lot of people that, like me, don't even have the required platform to play Forza in the first place. There are also enfranchised players that, again, like me, were raised playing older GTs and don't really care for other similar franchises.
In short, I wouldn't expect a significant migration of players.
In short, I wouldn't expect a significant migration of players.
MonoTonouS
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- Jump_Ace
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If the FFB in FM8 is like it was in FM7 undoubtedly, yes. If their AI version of Sophy is as good or better suited to adapt to all driver levels, it could put PD on their toes a bit, but GT won't go anywhere. Once they realize all they need to do is bring in all their classic tracks and keep piling on the cars while implementing Sophy as a race coach (and a grid of adjustable Sophy drivers for every offline championship series/race), they'll climb back to the top in my book.
Jerome
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