Will GT7 Get Left behind when Forza Motorsports 8 hits the Market?

[Dave A]

Wheels cost more than Vr headsets though

Possibly, but there are plenty of gaming wheel and pedals sets you can buy for considerably less than £100. You can also buy cheap VR headsets too, but you don't look at the extremes here.

that figure includes all wheel peripherals such as stands and rigs ( I googled it)

Yes it does, I never said otherwise, but the VR headset market includes the motion trackers, stands etc. I'm not sure if there's a point being made here, but if you simply look at the size of the respective markets, the difference is significant and suggests that there are far more gaming wheels in circulation than VR headsets.

 

[Cayit]

Almost 2 Months left until GT7 is done...with me.

 

[Fuz_Belvedere]

For me, it depends on custom race options... If Forza allows us to create a starting grid (car & paint scheme, potentially from our collection), I likely won't fire up GT7 with exception of track updates.

My fear is that Turn 10 won't fix their custom race buckets nor the options to filter the lineup

 

[ImaRobot]

Why far in the future ? The technology exist today and Is fully functional and I bet there are more VR owners than wheel owners simply because Wheels are relegated to racing where as VR can be used for anything If forza lacked wheel support it would surely get heat and hate despite the fact , as you said, only a tiny amount of people actually use a wheel to play the game .


It wouldn't hamper them to include VR support for the PC version either . Not having VR support for a AAA closed circuit sim game in 2023 is bad when all of it's competition supports it and it significantly enhances the experience .

Technology simply existing doesn't mean that it's going to take over as a prominent feature in all games like you said. Look how long its taken to even get where it is right now and the technology has been around for like what, 10+ years? It's hardly a prominent feature in console games as it sits, and it's not even a massive selling point for those that are as the vast majority of gamers are still going to be playing without it. That lone should be able to answer your own question. It's actually not bad at all as you can see that all console racers are existing just fine with or without it. It's a nice feature sure, but its not breaking the bank or dooming any games any time within the next ten years I would imagine.

That's cute , but flawed . We are talking about forza so how about you pull out VR numbers for ALL pc headsets and not PSVR 2 which only works on playstation . You know like you pulled the numbers for all wheels sold on PC / Xbox/ and PS .

That was your claim, so how about you do that instead?

 

[MonoTonouS]

Technology simply existing doesn't mean that it's going to take over as a prominent feature in all games like you said. Look how long its taken to even get where it is right now and the technology has been around for like what, 10+ years? It's hardly a prominent feature in console games as it sits, and it's not even a massive selling point for those that are as the vast majority of gamers are still going to be playing without it. That lone should be able to answer your own question. It's actually not bad at all as you can see that all console racers are existing just fine with or without it. It's a nice feature sure, but its not breaking the bank or dooming any games any time within the next ten years I would imagine.


That was your claim, so how about you do that instead?

This isn't a court of law with burdens of proof . He used PSVR2 data on a Xbox / PC game . That's asinine .

 

[ImaRobot]

This isn't a court of law with burdens of proof . He used PSVR2 data on a Xbox / PC game . That's asinine .

What a cop-out . That's how the real world works, and how it works here too. What's asinine is thinking others have to prove your point for you. You say something as a fact, you back it up - Simple as that. Anything other than actually backing it up is basically admitting that it was simply pulled from the backside. You're admitting you're unable to prove anything you say, which is no problem to me. Just weird that people are willing go that route, but that seems dumb to me.

Edit: Actually, I missed the part that @Dave A already proved you wrong.

 

[UKMikey]

GRiD Legends is a 2023 AAA closed circuit racer that doesn't have VR as far as I know except in the Oculus Quest 2 port. But we were counting all VR platforms, not just Sony ones, so here's the "significantly enhanced" experience.

 

[ImaRobot]

GRiD Legends is a 2023 AAA closed circuit racer that doesn't have VR as far as I know except in the Oculus Quest 2 port. But we were counting all VR platforms, not just Sony ones, so here's the "significantly enhanced" experience.

Something something the technology exists...!

 

[MonoTonouS]

Something something the technology exists...!

Ah , yes lets be dumb asses and equate VR to the lowest form . Dirt Rally VR and Driveclub VR both look better than that and are almost a decade old

Also equating market value to products sold is not apples to apples. Minecraft cost 20$ , Halo cost 70$ .Saying halo sold more copies because it generated more revenue is wrong .

Now A google search says last year 19 million VR headsets were sold .

I can't find a single figure for the amount of racing wheels sold . But given the fact that we do know how many video games sold supporting wheels are sold in a given year , we can deduce through the sale of games , how many wheels sold. Considering less than 1% of players use a wheel to play racing games , we would need to estimate that at least 190 million copies of racing games that support wheels were sold last year alone, this doesn't even include new games , all racing games in general. This is flawed in YOUR favor because it assumes every new game is a new person and not the fact that one gamer may own multiple games. **** Il even let you count 100% of Iracing and AC, ACC , Project cars 2 and 3 as wheel users , the numbers don't add up .

 

[jonoholland29]

Ah , yes lets be dumb asses and equate VR to the lowest form . Dirt Rally VR and Driveclub VR both look better than that and are almost a decade old

Also equating market value to products sold is not apples to apples. Minecraft cost 20$ , Halo cost 70$ .Saying halo sold more copies because it generated more revenue is wrong .

Now A google search says last year 19 million VR headsets were sold .

I can't find a single figure for the amount of racing wheels sold . But given the fact that we do know how many video games sold supporting wheels are sold in a given year , we can deduce through the sale of games , how many wheels sold. Considering less than 1% of players use a wheel to play racing games , we would need to estimate that at least 190 million copies of racing games that support wheels were sold last year alone, this doesn't even include new games , all racing games in general. This is flawed in YOUR favor because it assumes every new game is a new person and not the fact that one gamer may own multiple games. **** Il even let you count 100% of Iracing and AC, ACC , Project cars 2 and 3 as wheel users , the numbers don't add up .

What makes you think 1% of people own a wheel?

 

[MroczMR]

GRiD Legends is a 2023 AAA closed circuit racer that doesn't have VR as far as I know except in the Oculus Quest 2 port. But we were counting all VR platforms, not just Sony ones, so here's the "significantly enhanced" experience.

You made me sad reminding me about Grid Vr… This should be on PCVR and PSVR2

 

[UKMikey]

"Forza is bad because every other circuit racer in 2023 has VR"

shows 2023 circuit racer with VR

"No, not like that!"

---

You made me sad reminding me about Grid Vr… This should be on PCVR and PSVR2

So far it looks like Codies didn't want to spend the time and resources they had on making the game ready for a (so far) unspecified minority of people who use VR. They concentrated instead on developing the game for flatscreen wheel and controller users like Turn 10 appear to have done with the latest Forza. It seems like a bit of a stretch to me to suggest that both of these mass market AAA developers are somehow deficient for doing so in 2023.

It'd therefore appear to me that virtual reality isn't quite as ubiquitous or as central to those particular developers' design philosophy as the previous arguments suggest and that the revolution will have to wait a little longer. I guess some people are determined to bash Forza with whatever club they can find, but this is kind of a weird hill to die on.

Personally I think addressing fundamentals like AI, tyre physics and career progression are far more important to the vast majority of potential players than a (literally) peripheral issue that most people aren't concerned with right now and judging by the most recent developer videos, Turn 10 are concentrating on all three of these areas.

 

[jonoholland29]

And to be clear on any bias I might have… I don’t like Forza at all. Not sure why but I just can’t get on with the physics of it. To me the perfect racing game sits somewhere between ACC and GT7 with Forza being between GT7 and something like GRID.

But I still don’t believe that there are more VR headsets out there than wheels and nothing anyone has said has swayed me. We’ll likely never know… but like doors v wheels

 

[Remy Zero]

I do hope it happens.

Kaz and PD needs to be given a kick up the rear end to be focused again.

 

[ImaRobot]

Ah , yes lets be dumb asses and equate VR to the lowest form . Dirt Rally VR and Driveclub VR both look better than that and are almost a decade old

Also equating market value to products sold is not apples to apples. Minecraft cost 20$ , Halo cost 70$ .Saying halo sold more copies because it generated more revenue is wrong .

Now A google search says last year 19 million VR headsets were sold .

I can't find a single figure for the amount of racing wheels sold . But given the fact that we do know how many video games sold supporting wheels are sold in a given year , we can deduce through the sale of games , how many wheels sold. Considering less than 1% of players use a wheel to play racing games , we would need to estimate that at least 190 million copies of racing games that support wheels were sold last year alone, this doesn't even include new games , all racing games in general. This is flawed in YOUR favor because it assumes every new game is a new person and not the fact that one gamer may own multiple games. **** Il even let you count 100% of Iracing and AC, ACC , Project cars 2 and 3 as wheel users , the numbers don't add up .

Hey it was your claim, again, that VR is all around technologically advanced in all aspects as a feature, and a massive selling point. What was it that you said exactly? Something along the lines that any racing game missing this feature is considering massively bad for said game? The reason that was posted because, again, you were talking out of your backside. It's been pointed out to you that, currently, it's not at a point to that what you're trying to say is even remotely true, or even close to being so. If it's that easy to poke holes in your argument, theres no one to get mad at besides yourself. It's embarassing at this point.

Seems like you're still constantly pulling info from the backside. On top of that, now you're backtracking as well

 

[UKMikey]

deleted... I've already said what I wanted to say and it's not worth going over old ground

 

[Beezer215]

How is VR still a debate at this point? It's nowhere near a feature that makes or breaks a game. It's not to that point yet. It's an expensive niche feature that has little bearing on the success of a title.

If FM(2023) is going to outperform GT7 or anything relative to it's market, it's going to do it with features, better physics, an actual competent career with sustenance, peripheral support, actual settings we can change and not the bare minimum, FFB that doesn't feel like I'm stretching a rubber band when turning, an agreeable in game economy, a plethora of player events offline and avenues of engagement as well as online (which FM7 already does better than GT7), real telemetry that shows what my setup is doing (already have this in FM7). Not even going to get into graphics because let's say, even if GT7 has better graphics, if those graphics cause a hinderance on a CPU or GPU to the point where I have to have LODs pop in right before my eyes when my car is a couple feet away from the car in front of me, it's just ruined the immersion of those graphics. Personally I don't care about taking pictures of fake digital cars, that's just me though. I would prefer a smoother in game experience with acceptable graphics level rather than an overbearing graphics that is too resource intensive to the point that I can't even implement a competent AI on the current console. Which brings up another important point, competent AI in which Forza can win there just by not having bricks going around the track as obstacles.

VR has such a small bearing on any of the points a majority of people are going to make in whether it's a decision making feature to buy. It is a great incentive though for those that can afford it, but wouldn't they have bought the game anyways?

 

[omgitsbees]

Long time Forza Motorsport fan, as in since day 1 of the original Xbox game, and honestly from what i'm seeing of FM8 so far? I think the series has fallen off the bandwagon. I have felt this way since FM7. Gran Turismo 7 absolutely has its problems, but I don't see myself abandoning, which is insane to me that I would be saying this. There was a point where I was a die hard Forza Motorsport & Turn-10 shill that loved everything they did up until the end of the Xbox 360 generation, and then after that they have slowly been going downhill.

I do hope it happens.

Kaz and PD needs to be given a kick up the rear end to be focused again.

The thing is that they have been needing this since GT5 and it hasn't really happened. They don't pay attention to the competition, and even with Gran Turismo's problems as a series, it still outsells every single other racing sim out there, so PD doesn't feel the need to reinvent themselves.

 

[UKMikey]

Long time Forza Motorsport fan, as in since day 1 of the original Xbox game, and honestly from what i'm seeing of FM8 so far? I think the series has fallen off the bandwagon. I have felt this way since FM7.

You're entitled to your opinion, but to me it seems a little crazy to write the game off before it's been released and we can see whether the changes they've demonstrated between FM7 and FM2023 in physics and AI actually materialise.

 

[omgitsbees]

You're entitled to your opinion, but to me it seems a little crazy to write the game off before it's been released and we can see whether the changes they've demonstrated between FM7 and FM2023 in physics and AI actually materialise.

I mean fair to an extent, but like FM7 made improvements in both area's too, and ultimately was still the most unsatisfying game to play in the series. The RPG-lite upgrade system raises a lot of red flags and suggests that Turn-10 learned nothing, instead creating a solution to a problem that never existed in the first place (an uninteresting car customization system? but no one asked for FM4's upgrade system to be changed, and in fact it was considered near perfect?). Everything Turn-10 has shown, has been to make changes that no one at any point in time asked them to make changes to in the first place. Never mind the only 20 tracks we are getting too.

FM8 is on Game Pass, which I sub to, so i'll play it either way. if I had to pay for the game outright though? There is a high chance I would decide to pass until it was on a really deep sale. Turn-10 hasn't done a good job convincing me to not write the game off before release, and unfortunately that is the reality we live in, I have limited time.

 

[Ande3200]

I think its a shame vr is not in more bigger aaa titles the experince it gives you is incrediable,
Fm7 never did it for me, have much more fun time with gt7, how the new motorsport will turn it it to soon to say, but with some dissapointing elements i will wait to buy at a later date

 

[UKMikey]

Everything Turn-10 has shown, has been to make changes that no one at any point in time asked them to make changes to in the first place.

Nobody wanted changes to road grip and steering wheel support and were perfectly happy with the AI? Because those were the changes from FM7 I saw in the latest video.

 

[Beezer215]

I mean fair to an extent, but like FM7 made improvements in both area's too, and ultimately was still the most unsatisfying game to play in the series. The RPG-lite upgrade system raises a lot of red flags and suggests that Turn-10 learned nothing, instead creating a solution to a problem that never existed in the first place (an uninteresting car customization system? but no one asked for FM4's upgrade system to be changed, and in fact it was considered near perfect?). Everything Turn-10 has shown, has been to make changes that no one at any point in time asked them to make changes to in the first place. Never mind the only 20 tracks we are getting too.

FM8 is on Game Pass, which I sub to, so i'll play it either way. if I had to pay for the game outright though? There is a high chance I would decide to pass until it was on a really deep sale. Turn-10 hasn't done a good job convincing me to not write the game off before release, and unfortunately that is the reality we live in, I have limited time.

A red flag? Really though? If we're here comparing something that's already out to something that no one has even tried yet then I would say that GT7 is a complete red flag to the future of Gran Turismo as a whole. This suggests that PD have learned nothing since GT6. GT7 instead decide to ignore a whole community and continue these weird "world series" presentations while ignoring the majority of its fan base that wants offline engagement. GT4 was the pinnacle, no one asked PD to change a system that was near perfect. Everything that PD has shown for over a year that GT7 has been out have shown a level of disconnect and incompetency to the point that I've never read so much disappointment in a forum before. GT7 goes well over the amount of complaining GT6 and GT Sport had combined.
If FM(2023) has 20 tracks at launch then great. GT7 had 25. I'm sure there will be more as they've already said there will be.

One has been out for over a year and has shown very little promise to the point that people all throughout this forum need to bring up GT8 left and right. Which I find hilarious. If you aren't getting it now, you're not getting it in any GT8 either. You might pass on a FM(2023) but I can guarantee you I will pass on every iteration of Gran Turismo to come from here on. Turn 10 hasn't done a good job in convincing you, fine, but show me where Kaz and PD convinced you the GT7 was going to be the way it is today in this condition. The lies Kaz has given in his statements. Endurance races? Doesn't want people grinding the same tracks over and over again? The most complete GT ever?
At least Turn 10 and Chris make a lot of public statements and videos. He interacts with the community via social media. Answers peoples personal inquiries. It's already been shown to have a more detailed physics and tire model, already shown to have a complete redone competent AI system. It's not even out though. We don't even know. What I do know, is that I'm done getting Playstations, I have a nice PC. That right there is a huge selling point for me alone.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do because I have a suspicion, as much as I have loved and grew up with Gran Turismo through the years, I'm going to enjoy Forza Motorsport 2023 more so from here going forward. And if it isn't good, refund it, I'll say I was wrong and I'll happily go back to all the PC sims that we have.

 

[Tornado]

Ah , yes lets be dumb asses and equate VR to the lowest form . Dirt Rally VR and Driveclub VR both look better than that and are almost a decade old

Also equating market value to products sold is not apples to apples. Minecraft cost 20$ , Halo cost 70$ .Saying halo sold more copies because it generated more revenue is wrong .

Now A google search says last year 19 million VR headsets were sold .

I can't find a single figure for the amount of racing wheels sold . But given the fact that we do know how many video games sold supporting wheels are sold in a given year , we can deduce through the sale of games , how many wheels sold. Considering less than 1% of players use a wheel to play racing games , we would need to estimate that at least 190 million copies of racing games that support wheels were sold last year alone, this doesn't even include new games , all racing games in general. This is flawed in YOUR favor because it assumes every new game is a new person and not the fact that one gamer may own multiple games. **** Il even let you count 100% of Iracing and AC, ACC , Project cars 2 and 3 as wheel users , the numbers don't add up .

This is like a Chewbacca Defense.

 

[omgitsbees]

A red flag? Really though? If we're here comparing something that's already out to something that no one has even tried yet then I would say that GT7 is a complete red flag to the future of Gran Turismo as a whole. This suggests that PD have learned nothing since GT6. GT7 instead decide to ignore a whole community and continue these weird "world series" presentations while ignoring the majority of its fan base that wants offline engagement. GT4 was the pinnacle, no one asked PD to change a system that was near perfect. Everything that PD has shown for over a year that GT7 has been out have shown a level of disconnect and incompetency to the point that I've never read so much disappointment in a forum before. GT7 goes well over the amount of complaining GT6 and GT Sport had combined.
If FM(2023) has 20 tracks at launch then great. GT7 had 25. I'm sure there will be more as they've already said there will be.

One has been out for over a year and has shown very little promise to the point that people all throughout this forum need to bring up GT8 left and right. Which I find hilarious. If you aren't getting it now, you're not getting it in any GT8 either. You might pass on a FM(2023) but I can guarantee you I will pass on every iteration of Gran Turismo to come from here on. Turn 10 hasn't done a good job in convincing you, fine, but show me where Kaz and PD convinced you the GT7 was going to be the way it is today in this condition. The lies Kaz has given in his statements. Endurance races? Doesn't want people grinding the same tracks over and over again? The most complete GT ever?
At least Turn 10 and Chris make a lot of public statements and videos. He interacts with the community via social media. Answers peoples personal inquiries. It's already been shown to have a more detailed physics and tire model, already shown to have a complete redone competent AI system. It's not even out though. We don't even know. What I do know, is that I'm done getting Playstations, I have a nice PC. That right there is a huge selling point for me alone.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do because I have a suspicion, as much as I have loved and grew up with Gran Turismo through the years, I'm going to enjoy Forza Motorsport 2023 more so from here going forward. And if it isn't good, refund it, I'll say I was wrong and I'll happily go back to all the PC sims that we have.

why are you telling me all of this? I don't care about what you think of GT7, no one asked.

 

[Northstar]

why are you telling me all of this? I don't care about what you think of GT7, no one asked.

No one asked for your opinion on Forza either, so...

 

[omgitsbees]

No one asked for your opinion on Forza either, so...

Talking about Forza in a thread asking about Forza and not responding to anyone in particular. totally the same thing. 🤷‍♂️maybe dont respond to someone with a wall of text without a point to it? I'm not reading all of that lol.

 

[UKMikey]

why are you telling me all of this? I don't care about what you think of GT7, no one asked.

It was asked in the thread title.

 

[NotThePrez]

Talking about Forza in a thread asking about Forza and not responding to anyone in particular. totally the same thing. 🤷‍♂️maybe dont respond to someone with a wall of text without a point to it? I'm not reading all of that lol.

Well, this is a discussion thread, so there's always a chance random people will jump in to respond and discuss a post that you make.

 

[Tornado]

A red flag? Really though? If we're here comparing something that's already out to something that no one has even tried yet then I would say that GT7 is a complete red flag to the future of Gran Turismo as a whole. This suggests that PD have learned nothing since GT6. GT7 instead decide to ignore a whole community and continue these weird "world series" presentations while ignoring the majority of its fan base that wants offline engagement. GT4 was the pinnacle, no one asked PD to change a system that was near perfect. Everything that PD has shown for over a year that GT7 has been out have shown a level of disconnect and incompetency to the point that I've never read so much disappointment in a forum before. GT7 goes well over the amount of complaining GT6 and GT Sport had combined.

I mean, I'm not interested in PD's NFT simulator either; but that doesn't mean much for Turn 10's alienating announced changes to their game structure.



Like, you can just not buy games. Just because GT7 has been designed to be Genshin Impact with cars doesn't mean you have to buy Forza 8.