::::: World Super GT Championship | Round 1 | Qualifying in Session! :::::

[Denilson]

The Championship started out with the idea of 16 cars in total. 8 GT500's and 8 GT300's.. The interest got very big and to keep the format, Masi decided to throw in a D2. So if you think of it in that way, no one in D2 would even run for points at all this Friday.. But now they can.. Is'nt that a good thing? I think so..

 

[Sail IC]

That your own equipment (steeringwheel, internet connection) is part of your "car" and if you have problems with it, its part of racing. So generally speaking, I have no problems with what happened yesterday.

However, my streeringwheel broke a couple of corners into the outlap well before starting the qual laps. I then wrote a message that I had problems with my steeringwheel and I did actually expect to be allowed to abort the qual attempt, fix the steering wheel, and rerun. Realistic sure, but its suppose to be fun too.

History is history. Always look forward, never look back.

 

[nycrom1971]

GT5 only allows for 16 drivers in a lobby, going to be pretty difficult to have a driver start from the back when the series has more drivers than that - That's why we have divisions - Don't really understand otherwise, it's not like Johan is on the waiting list, he got into D2.

Series' where a driver can make a mistake in qualifying and still race with the same guys don't have divisions, so it really doesn't apply to this series. Also we can't give preference to one or more drivers, it's tough luck if they don't make D1 or D2.

As much as I would like to race against the best guys in this series every single week, it's the same rules for everyone, we've all got a chance of not "making it"; it's about doing the best in qualifying AND in the race, not just the latter.

The qualify are our weekly selection drivers, but I would to know which kind of competition there is between different Gt categories. Me too I did my qualify session with my engine under power 20hp for a my stupid mistake....;( but didnt ask nothing to anyone, and I didnt want no one help for that, but I did a time laps right to enter in the top 14.
Johan was just an example of something that I dont agree.

 

[HortusIX]

Don't misunderstand me, I like very much this qualifying format is very exciting! What I would like say is that in any race a very fast driver can make a little mistake during the qualify. But don't start in another division race, like anyother qualified driver him will have the opportunity to win the race. Here is impossible. I know that are the rule and I respect this rule. But in any race category the last qualified drive race with all other drivers.
EDIT: in the real SuperGt the two category GT500 and GT300 race together but all the cars togheter, here is impossible, and 50% of the race is decide during the qualify..I don't understand why..just for see on the track Gt500 and Gt300..beautiful but no more exciting for me.

GT5 only allows for 16 drivers in a lobby, going to be pretty difficult to have a driver start from the back when the series has more drivers than that - That's why we have divisions - Don't really understand otherwise, it's not like Johan is on the waiting list, he got into D2.

Series' where a driver can make a mistake in qualifying and still race with the same guys don't have divisions, so it really doesn't apply to this series. Also we can't give preference to one or more drivers, it's tough luck if they don't make D1 or D2.

As much as I would like to race against the best guys in this series every single week, it's the same rules for everyone, we've all got a chance of not "making it"; it's about doing the best in qualifying AND in the race, not just the latter.

both of these points are great,

on the one hand it is a shame that more drivers cannot participate in a race lobby... a maximum of 32 would be great...but i'm not so sure it would make for such a good race - 32 drivers going into one corner at 130+mph? probably asking for trouble. maybe if there was an equal amount of mixed and same class races this would help the issue...

on the other hand, the event itself is not just about the race. the pressure that goes with qualifying is also part of the whole experience so i think it is fair (on most) that there is divisional qualifying. it might not always be a true and accurate reflection of a drivers true race pace, and yes, what incentive is there for somebody top of D2 to race hard when he/she is already in the best position he/she can manage. i guess this is where the bonus points system might play a pivotal role in deciding the outcome of the championship (although, in the case of the GT300 class, i expect what will be more pivotal is whether or not moleman can make it to every race)

perhaps another way of handling the points scoring, which would give everybody an incentive to race more competitively, (similar to being promoted out of your current GTP Registry division) would be to rank drivers on their total race time as opposed to their final position in the race... this way, P1 in D2 could potentially be the overall class winnner for the event if he/she finished with a faster total time than the winner of D1...

it's obviously too late to be even considering this as a possibility for this championship, but i wonder what others' thoughts are on this idea

 

[African Kat]

Correct me if i am wrong Nycrom, but what i think Nycrom is trying to say is that if a GT500 driver makes a slight mistake in quali - if he were to be in a 16 car gt500 race, he would still have the opportunity to gain the maximum possible points (by winning).

Now he would get pushed into D2 and cannot get the maximum points available( which is D1 1st place)

 

[nycrom1971]

Correct me if i am wrong Nycrom, but what i think Nycrom is trying to say is that if a GT500 driver makes a slight mistake in quali - if he were to be in a 16 car gt500 race, he would still have the opportunity to gain the maximum possible points (by winning).

Now he would get pushed into D2 and cannot get the maximum points available( which is D1 1st place)

exactly, i think that the 14 qualified drivers must compete in the same race. does not make sense to have two categories together, there is no competition. as we changed the qualifying format, you can change the race format.

 

[Imari]

Don't misunderstand me, I like very much this qualifying format is very exciting! What I would like say is that in any race a very fast driver can make a little mistake during the qualify. But don't start in another division race, like anyother qualified driver him will have the opportunity to win the race. Here is impossible. I know that are the rule and I respect this rule. But in any race category the last qualified drive race with all other drivers.
EDIT: in the real SuperGt the two category GT500 and GT300 race together but all the cars togheter, here is impossible, and 50% of the race is decide during the qualify..I don't understand why..just for see on the track Gt500 and Gt300..beautiful but no more exciting for me.

That's the price you pay for mixed class racing. Everyone knew this before the race, it's been like that since we started the pre-season. The schedule was even changed to include some same class races as well to accommodate those who want a full field of their own class.

It is the way it is. It's intentional. It has both positive and negative qualities. I fail to see what complaining about it now does for anyone.

 

[HortusIX]

That's the price you pay for mixed class racing. Everyone knew this before the race, it's been like that since we started the pre-season. The schedule was even changed to include some same class races as well to accommodate those who want a full field of their own class.

It is the way it is. It's intentional. It has both positive and negative qualities. I fail to see what complaining about it now does for anyone.

what about my idea of ranking drivers on total race time?
this would open up the possibility for drivers in both D2 classes to score more points.

yes, the qualifying is part of the race program, but i feel it is unfair to limit how many points a driver can earn simply because he has not had a great qualifying performance... if this were the case in F1 we would have been robbed of many great driving performances from the likes of Schumacher who came from way down the pack in Suzuka to finish 2nd overall to Alonso a few years back.

also, a D1 driver who has a poor performance is guaranteed to finish 7th and collect more points than better performing D2 drivers. maybe, instead of outright ranking, the bonus points structure could be amended so that some points are awarded to D2 drivers in these cases?

 

[African Kat]

also, a D1 driver who has a poor performance is guaranteed to finish 7th and collect more points than better performing D2 drivers. maybe, instead of outright ranking, the bonus points structure could be amended so that some points are awarded to D2 drivers in these cases?

I think this idea holds some potential, however with Masi away and the championship starting tomorrow i don't know if rules will be amended at this hour

EDIT: to be fair we did vote on this awhile back and it was 50/50, hence, i assume, the decision to include both

 

[Imari]

what about my idea of ranking drivers on total race time?
this would open up the possibility for drivers in both D2 classes to score more points.

The other thing is that we've been through this conversation before in the pre-season.

To recap the discussion, there are major flaws with that idea. The conditions just aren't the same. You can't compare times from the two races. In D1, a leader has the opportunity to defend his position against any attacking car. He knows when someone is on his tail and he needs to push, and he knows when he's well clear of second place and should cruise to avoid any incidents.

If you let drivers in D2 compete on time, you take away all that knowledge. It becomes actually EASIER for the front driver in D2 to take the lead as they don't have to overtake, compared to the second place driver in D1 who has to get a clean overtake on the leader.

You run into problems like one group having to negotiate around crashed backmarkers or something, and the other group not. Or having three drivers of similar pace, except that two are in the same division and can draft each other and the other has to drive alone.

It was considered as an idea, but after consideration it was dismissed in favour of adding a few same class races. The 85% rule was introduced to stop the bottom drivers in D1 from parking on the side of the road and collecting their points, they have to make a reasonable effort to finish the race in a strong time.

 

[nycrom1971]

what about my idea of ranking drivers on total race time?
this would open up the possibility for drivers in both D2 classes to score more points.

yes, the qualifying is part of the race program, but i feel it is unfair to limit how many points a driver can earn simply because he has not had a great qualifying performance... if this were the case in F1 we would have been robbed of many great driving performances from the likes of Schumacher who came from way down the pack in Suzuka to finish 2nd overall to Alonso a few years back.U

also, a D1 driver who has a poor performance is guaranteed to finish 7th and collect more points than better performing D2 drivers. maybe, instead of outright ranking, the bonus points structure could be amended so that some points are awarded to D2 drivers in these cases?

In any race supergt too...Are not the qualify the must important moment of week and.. is the race. With this rule here is not like that. I repeat respect the rule, but all is possible change for a better and realistic race..whit two divisions there aren't real finsh result. Cuz a lot of that is decide with the qualify and not with the race.

 

[Andil]

You missed the major problem, imari

We do a rolling start, D1 and D2 parade laps can be much longer or shorter than one another.

Also yes we have an 85% completion rule, meaning the winner of D2 could theoretically get the points of 2nd place overall.

We had all of this discussion weeks ago, season starts tomorrow.

Also Nycrom what would your suggestion be then? There is no way to get more than 16 cars in a race so I have no idea what you're suggesting. The only way is to split the series into GT500 and GT300, but again, we had that discussion and vote many weeks ago and ended up with what we have now. And to be fair, the series is very clear with its rules in the first post of this thread, people know what they are signing up for.

 

[KamyKaze1098]

You missed the major problem, imari

We do a rolling start, D1 and D2 parade laps can be much longer or shorter than one another.

Also yes we have an 85% completion rule, meaning the winner of D2 could theoretically get the points of 2nd place overall.

We had all of this discussion weeks ago, season starts tomorrow.

Also Nycrom what would your suggestion be then? There is no way to get more than 16 cars in a race so I have no idea what you're suggesting. The only way is to split the series into GT500 and GT300, but again, we had that discussion and vote many weeks ago. And to be fair, the series is very clear with its rules in the first post of this thread, people know what they are signing up for.

And you missed another big one. Rain.
At La Sarthe the GT 500 race had rain, while the GT 300 was run on dry time all the way. With that in mind one division would be much slower than the other in mixed class races.

Speaking of rain, wich version of Suzuka are we running this fryday?? Will it be the weather change one??

If so its time to practice a LOT in those rain and inters tires.

 

[maSonn09]

Correct 👍

maSonn09: I'll put you up.
Need to know what car and what class.
In the list you are in the GT300's, but i think you did a few races in a GT500 as well.. So which class will you do.. Remember, this is your choice for the whole season.

Since i've been used to racing in the GT500s with you lot i'll go with that and i will take the car i used in the Indy 500. Castrol Toms Supra '97.

 

[Masi_23]

I'm acting as a stand-in for Masi_23 until he comes back. (Denilson)

1: About D1 and D2. This Championship was planned with 8 GT500's and 8 GT300's from the beginning. The Championship was supposed to be ONE division. But when the series became popular, the number of drivers that were able to enter a race was to small. So Masi_23 decided to make another division to make more drivers able to race. So concider it more like the D2 drivers got the possibility to earn any points att all, cause if the Championship would have stayed with 1 divition driver 8 and below would not run for points at all. Making them NOT be able to win the race.

To meet the critisism, Masi_23 has also put in 4-5 races with same class to make as many drivers as possible happy. I'm afraid there is nothing more to do. And I strongly suggest we leave this discussion from now on. Nothing will change.

2: Bonuspoints will be handed out in each division seperatly. So driver number 8 gets pole bonus, and the fastest lap in D2 will also recieve bonuspoints as well. This goes for the bonuspoints for completion of the race as well. So if you win D2, start with pole and run the fastest lap while 1 or 2 drivers in D1 disconnects (not finishing at least 85% of the race) you could actually climb up to 5th overall if my math is correct.


Btw, the OP will be updated in a few hours with all final rules regarding:
1. Penaltys
2. Qualy rules
3. Rep-point system
4. OFFICIAL and FINAL grid list for Suzuka this Friday.
5. Hosts for each race

EDIT: This week at Suzuka will be sunny . The weather races are the enduros.
Suzuka this Friday will be set to 27 laps, including the formationlap.

 

[competizione]

there has been thougth about the total time scoring points way but it will not work because if you are in a figth you minimum looses 1.5 seconds per lap. if the d2 leader are in no figth and dont make mistakes he will probarbly win because he not was in a battle

 

[HortusIX]

I think this idea holds some potential, however with Masi away and the championship starting tomorrow i don't know if rules will be amended at this hour

EDIT: to be fair we did vote on this awhile back and it was 50/50, hence, i assume, the decision to include both

thanks for the reply...

i understand that with the championship opener so close it's not even worth considering it right now, i just thought i would put it out there as an idea that might be worth some discussion for future championships or even something that could or might, although perhaps unfairly, be implemented mid season.

i wasn't aware that it had already been up for discussion though, so it's promising to learn that it's an idea that some are already thinking about.

 

[KamyKaze1098]

Anyone interested in running a 15 laps race this evening?? Around 9 PM GMT.

I need to practice a race stint, and also get some kms on my Garaya. Still on 352, and i think the Max HP is 355. Can anyone comfirm me that??

If there's interest i'll post room number here.

 

[RamoSapiens]

I think that talking about stuff that could make a better
serie should be done. Any changes for this season is maybe too late, but maybe for the next season.
What about a democratic vote about the rules & regulations?
Here is my points (which You know already) :

- Racing Softs for GT 500, Racing Hards for GT300 (closer to real Super GT)
- Same Class Races. (more fun to race against 13-15 than 6-7 cars)
- Light Damage
- Allow everything that cannot easily be policed.(Just make PP limits or HP limits).
- Tracks that suites the Super GT cars, even if some of them are "Fantasy tracks"

There will always be "aggressive" drivers. Driving with Heavy
Damage or/and with Racing Hards wont change that fact!

If my Ideas would lose a democratic vote, its fine. Then I
atleast would know that there has been an opportunity for
all of us to make changes. Now here is only a few with very
strong statements, and others/most of us seems to follow them blindly....
Think also that here is nowadays many new drivers, who
haven´t got any chance to give their opinion about these
rules that appears today.

Thank You again for reading.

Max

 

[Imari]

I'm afraid there is nothing more to do. And I strongly suggest we leave this discussion from now on. Nothing will change.

This. If you're talking about next season, let it wait for a couple of weeks until we finish getting THIS season under way.

 

[nycrom1971]

You missed the major problem, imari

We do a rolling start, D1 and D2 parade laps can be much longer or shorter than one another.

Also yes we have an 85% completion rule, meaning the winner of D2 could theoretically get the points of 2nd place overall.

We had all of this discussion weeks ago, season starts tomorrow.

Also Nycrom what would your suggestion be then? There is no way to get more than 16 cars in a race so I have no idea what you're suggesting. The only way is to split the series into GT500 and GT300, but again, we had that discussion and vote many weeks ago and ended up with what we have now. And to be fair, the series is very clear with its rules in the first post of this thread, people know what they are signing up for.

I never sayd to race in 16 drivers, 14 drivers like now are ok, but all in the sameclass, and yes split the class, now are more important the qualy that the race, if a driver mistake the qualy lap, will be 8th if will win the D2 race.. and if D1 driver did a totally bad race..will be 7th..there isnt a rigth balance in that Im sorry.. in no one race happen that.

 

[RamoSapiens]

This. If you're talking about next season, let it wait for a couple of weeks until we finish getting THIS season under way.

Yeah. I was just writing myself, so I didn´t read Masis
statement.

 

[competizione]

about the tyres i dont think a gt500 car is so much harder to drive. it wear down it tyres quicker but on hard tyres it still have very much grip i think if i run a nissan gt-r and a rx 7 i dont think i would spin more times i dont know how hard the nsx is because i have not driven one much

 

[C.D]

I think that talking about stuff that could make a better
serie should be done. (...)
What about a democratic vote about the rules & regulations?
Here is my points (which You know already) :

- Racing Softs for GT 500, Racing Hards for GT300 (closer to real Super GT)
- Same Class Races. (more fun to race against 13-15 than 6-7 cars)
- Light Damage
- Allow everything that cannot easily be policed.(Just make PP limits or HP limits).
- Tracks that suites the Super GT cars, even if some of them are "Fantasy tracks"

There will always be "aggressive" drivers. Driving with Heavy
Damage or/and with Racing Hards wont change that fact!

Great minds think alike because this is exactly how I run the italian Super GT series (democratic voting system for pretty much everything, from rule changes/implementation to penalties committed against aggressive drivers, included). 👍

 

[RamoSapiens]

about the tyres i dont think a gt500 car is so much harder to drive. it wear down it tyres quicker but on hard tyres it still have very much grip i think if i run a nissan gt-r and a rx 7 i dont think i would spin more times i dont know how hard the nsx is because i have not driven one much

Its just 5-6 secs slower around Suzuka with the Hards..
Would be closer comparing to real life with softs, as I showed yesterday. Maybe 1 more overtake of the GT300
cars during a whole race also.GT 300 with hards is already
close to real life. I myself would happily drive the GT500 with softs, but becomes a "survival race" with hards.
I know the drivers skills counts more with the hards though..
My point is only that why use tires that is 7-8 secs slower on
the same track comparing to real life. Doesn´t sound like Simulation to me.

But as Masi said. Lets discuss this later.Nothing will be changed to this season.

 

[Bakugekiki]

Since we are going to be racing at Suzuka twice I would just like to clear up the rolling start, I promise this is my last question.

Suzuka, technically, has two start lines in Gran Turismo unless I'm totally mistake. One that you line up to for a grid start and another further back that starts/stops a timed lap. In the real Super GT they start racing from the same line we'll be starting on the grid from, if we started from there in our race then the timer for the first lap will already have begun.

So my question is which line do we green flag from?

 

[Centura]

Finish line between 17 and 1.

 

[Imari]

Since we are going to be racing at Suzuka twice I would just like to clear up the rolling start, I promise this is my last question.

Suzuka, technically, has two start lines in Gran Turismo unless I'm totally mistake. One that you line up to for a grid start and another further back that starts/stops a timed lap. In the real Super GT they start racing from the same line we'll be starting on the grid from, if we started from there in our race then the timer for the first lap will already have begun.

So my question is which line do we green flag from?

It's a fair question. Technically, I doubt it matters as long as everyone knows beforehand which one you're going from. Denilson can just pick one. Or failing that, you can just announce prior to the parade lap which you intend to use.

I wouldn't worry about the timing thing, the first lap is always slower anyway so it's not like you're cutting into people's opportunities for a hot lap.

 

[Denilson]

Since we are going to be racing at Suzuka twice I would just like to clear up the rolling start, I promise this is my last question.

Suzuka, technically, has two start lines in Gran Turismo unless I'm totally mistake. One that you line up to for a grid start and another further back that starts/stops a timed lap. In the real Super GT they start racing from the same line we'll be starting on the grid from, if we started from there in our race then the timer for the first lap will already have begun.

So my question is which line do we green flag from?

You start just before the la-time for your first lap starts. Which means that you will start from the "finish-line" and not from the line where that cars are positioned in the fixed grid prior the race..

The first of the 2 lines that you reach is the starting-line. If the clock for the 1st (2nd if you count the formation-lap) lap is rolling, you are past the starting point.

Everything clear? 👍

 

[Bakugekiki]

You start just before the la-time for your first lap starts. Which means that you will start from the "finish-line" and not from the line where that cars are positioned in the fixed grid prior the race..

The first of the 2 lines that you reach is the starting-line. If the clock for the 1st (2nd if you count the formation-lap) lap is rolling, you are past the starting point.

Everything clear? 👍

Yes, brilliant. You start from the first of first line out of the two.