WSCC - Wednesday - Lexus IS-F RM Japan Cup - Sign-up open

[turbonutter69]

Good racing tonight guy's. I really enjoyed it.
Made a few mistake myself but i'm happy with 3rd.
Had a great battle with Gator and I thank him for being clean and giving me racing room. We would of had that battle to the finish but I dropped it in a corner and couldn't recover it. My car ate the tyre's as well.

 

[Dragonistic]

Quick tip for all, adjust your brake balance on the fly with the RA menu I think it is called? After I got my quick laps in on fresh tyres I changed my BB to help my front tyres a little as I was working my rubber pretty hard also though my rubber was clearly being put to a good cause . It's the only thing you can do on the fly to change the car slightly, the only other thing to do is drive differently. I ended up getting much better results from my set up today then anticipated, the understeer didn't seem as bad as my original testing.

Onwards and upwards, looking forward to Fuji where I feel even if I get another good start I won't be running away with all those slipstream sections particularly in the GT variation compared to the F version I'm more accustomed to. Who knows how the tyres are going to get on there as well, those long sweepers could be a real problem on wear. It's going to be a tough one.

 

[gator of kana]

Good racing tonight guy's. I really enjoyed it.
Made a few mistake myself but i'm happy with 3rd.
Had a great battle with Gator and I thank him for being clean and giving me racing room. We would of had that battle to the finish but I dropped it in a corner and couldn't recover it. My car ate the tyre's as well.

Your welcome turbo, I have to admit I was feeling a bit uneasy when you was right behind me but I felt more calm as the race went by.

 

[s4marsh]

Sorry for my pass on turbogeit at the start, as soon as i realised he wasnt accelerating quickly enough to keep up with the pack i backed off to give the position back but doing this meant by the end of sector 1 on the 1st racing lap i was 15+ seconds down on the leader due to the field being spread out way too much. I was pushing too hard to get somewhere near the back of the pack and my car was eating tyres so i pulled out.

I hate dnf's but couldnt continue sorry guys.

 

[gator of kana]

Sorry for my pass on turbogeit at the start, as soon as i realised he wasnt accelerating quickly enough to keep up with the pack i backed off to give the position back but doing this meant by the end of sector 1 on the 1st racing lap i was 15+ seconds down on the leader due to the field being spread out way too much. I was pushing too hard to get somewhere near the back of the pack and my car was eating tyres so i pulled out.

I hate dnf's but couldnt continue sorry guys.

I also found the big gaps in the rolling start pretty problematic myself as I was expecting to get into heavier racing traffic with there being 11 players in the race. It did players who had fast lap times in qualification a favor and the ones who were unfortunate to start in back otherwise.

 

[learningcurves]

I apologize if if something I did caused this, but I was unable to participate because I've not received a FR from room host?

I'd still like to participate in the last two races if possible...

Thanks.

 

[turbogeit]

@S4-marsh: you understood the rule and applied it, thanks: in case of a forbidden move (too early passing, bumping a car off the road while passing it, passing a car by cutting a chicane or corner etc.), you have to give back immediately the position or you get a penalty. Both cars that passed too early gave back the position and escape so from a penalty.

Rolling start: What you call a disadvantage is rather an advantage in my opinion. A standing start with more than 10 cars always gives problems. Many lap one incidents and often terrible lag in lap 1, probably because the system is unable to calculate in time the position of so much premium cars on the same small part of the track. A real fast guy normally has no problems to get back to the front in a 40 minutes race. In the Corvette we have a reverse order rolling start, with the fast guys in the back. Even on tracks where it is hard to pass, they manage to go from the back to the front in the first half of the race. I just verified the distances at start/finish line. S4-marsh (pos 10) was at 9.1 sec from the leader, what was below the 1 sec/car recommendation. With a standing start procedure, after 2 or 3 corners, car 10 could be at about 5-7 seconds, or perhaps more than the double in case of an incident.

What was perhaps wrong this time: I think it is better that the warming-up part is done at a constant slow speed below racespeed, in stead of these rhythm changes.

 

[ID_racing]

I suggest that the two other WSCC-stewards in the series, Cobrius and ID_racing organize the race together in my lounge, if necessary with the help of Turbonutter69, who was also already a member before the PSN-outage.

For the new members, a little bit of WSCC-history

(Complementary information about what I wrote in the lounge)

WSCC was created by Prawny when GT5 was released. We had our own website, what had the disadvantage that there was no income of new members. Just before the PSN-outage, Prawny decided to stop GT-racing.

So we decided to come back to GT Planet and with 3 or 4 members we organized a new start. At the beginning there were about 10-12 active members left. Gippone created the WSCC club space and asked me to maintain it. Most of the actual events are the results of discussions in the club space while PSN was not functioning

WSCC-stewards: In order to have a representative "board", I invited 5 of the most active members from before the PSN-outage to come in the board of stewards. They are: Cobrius, Teeds, GTRedline, ID_Racing, Gippone and me.

Thanks to their enthusiasm from the initial 10-12 members that were left we grew to a club with actually 73 members. And in stead of racing with 4 or 5 cars we now most of the time have more than 10 cars on the track.

Thanks guys!

- and thank to you turbo for the huge amount of work you´ve put into the new WSCC. It´s really great to see how many nice and fast new people the club has attracted in no time.

I´ll be happy to co-organize the next Lexus race. 👍

 

[turbonutter69]

Your welcome turbo, I have to admit I was feeling a bit uneasy when you was right behind me but I felt more calm as the race went by.

To start with I wanted to see where you was faster. I was going to just stick to your bumper until the last lap, but I dropped it on one of the corners and couldn't recover it because I'd ate the tyre's.
Great battle though and GTP_demonblade made an awesome pass on us both into the first corner!!!
I tried to take the defensive line and he shot past me even further to the inside of turn 1. Great pass that was.👍
I also thank I think it was Aceboy for letting us through after our pit stop. Good anticipation that was as we was on new rubber and was hunting him down fast!!

 

[Dragonistic]

What was perhaps wrong this time: I think it is better that the warming-up part is done at a constant slow speed below racespeed, in stead of these rhythm changes.

I held a constant speed at around 70 mph topping out at 90 with no sudden braking or accelerating (did some swerving for a touch of heat in the tyre though), I could still see gaps forming though in the field but there was no reason for them as I took no turn at even near full race pace. The replay will confirm this, I'm not sure quite how it forming these large gaps on the formation itself. As for the gaps at the start that was caused more by the nature of my rolling start, backing the field up on the final turn and then punching it to catch people sleeping. Which won't work on Fuji's super long straight .

If it's me again next time I will go a little slower if need be, for me it felt slow but perhaps it wasn't as slow as I thought for others in spots.~

Just taking some photos now, will post soon 👍.

 

[turbonutter69]

I noticed a gap forming behind Gator.
Also how did the pile up happen on the warm up lap? lol

Speed was good on the warm up lap I thought.

 

[MindlessRiff]

Enjoyed the race until I could hear my tyres squealing away begging for mercy as I couldn't change them lol, starting to think I don't have a pit crew! Haha. The countdown just stops counting at 17 and stays the whole race and the pits don't take control of my car. Also the game hangs whenever I leave the track to go to the lounge as well.

Just a question on the reinstall, will my save still be compatible with my account when I reinstall it? I have it on stick and online storage as well. If it still has trouble after I try a reinstall I dunno what to do, I've lost out on three WSCC races because of it now lol

Anyway no stop wasn't possible for me (is it even allowed? ) and by the end riding walls was faster than turning lol. Shame really cause there was a decent battle for 2nd/3rd going on. Again, sorry if I understeered into anyone on no tyres, clown car handling lol

 

[Dragonistic]

Photo time.
Formation Lap and Start:

GO GO GO [/Murray Walker]

That's all I have, not the best photographer in the world and no editing 👍.

 

[gator of kana]

To start with I wanted to see where you was faster. I was going to just stick to your bumper until the last lap, but I dropped it on one of the corners and couldn't recover it because I'd ate the tyre's.

Your car was definitely faster on fresh tires, but along with speed I tried to find endurance as well. The IS-F naturally understeers a lot and I tried to find a neutral handling behavior to ease the tire wear more to the back and not so much to the front by messing around with the LSD and downforce 1 or 2 days ago. I noticed on our first set of tires I was gaining a lot of ground back on you after I was able to overtake the other opponents that was able to pass me at the beginning of the race before we went into the pits.

 

[turbonutter69]

Few pics from me.

 

[ID_racing]

Great pics Dragonistic and turbonutter! Thats actually not such an ugly car..clearly just needs some colour.
And a setup that removes the understeeeeeeeeeer!!

 

[turbogeit]

Hi guys, great pictures. Can you perhaps copy them to

The WSCC-photo gallery ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[turbogeit]

I apologize if if something I did caused this, but I was unable to participate because I've not received a FR from room host?

I'd still like to participate in the last two races if possible...

Thanks.

Strange, because I can see you in my friends list and it says "Last sign-in: 7 hours ago" Your PSN is "zwyatt", isn't it?

 

[turbogeit]

I held a constant speed at around 70 mph topping out at 90 with no sudden braking or accelerating (did some swerving for a touch of heat in the tyre though), I could still see gaps forming though in the field but there was no reason for them as I took no turn at even near full race pace. The replay will confirm this, I'm not sure quite how it forming these large gaps on the formation itself. As for the gaps at the start that was caused more by the nature of my rolling start, backing the field up on the final turn and then punching it to catch people sleeping. Which won't work on Fuji's super long straight .

If it's me again next time I will go a little slower if need be, for me it felt slow but perhaps it wasn't as slow as I thought for others in spots.~

Just taking some photos now, will post soon 👍.

Strange, in the back of pack I had the impression of sudden speed changes and there was indeed a pile-up. I am wondering whether it wouldn't be better to have a warm-up lap at a higher speed: a speed which is everywhere slower than race speed, but without any risks of going off the track. Like the safety-car speed in Fomula 1. I don't know whether everybody is aware of it, but in F1, the Mercedes safety-car is very fast: it is close to its limits.

 

[turbonutter69]

Hi guys, great pictures. Can you perhaps copy them to

The WSCC-photo gallery ?

Thanks in advance.

Done. 👍

 

[s4marsh]

What i think would have worked better for a rolling start on the Tokyo track is at the end of the warm up lap the lead car can accelerate whenever he wants once across the start/finish line or even the pit entry would be ok here, keep the overtaking rule after turn 1 of the racing lap the same.
Doing this the lead car can still try to catch people sleeping or back the pack right up if they choose to but at least everyone would be on the main straight together instead of the leader hitting full power out of the final corner and the back of the pack still waiting to enter the hairpin turn.

Its only a suggestion so feel free to ignore me I'll just have to qualify higher next time wont i

 

[ID_racing]

What i think would have worked better for a rolling start on the Tokyo track is at the end of the warm up lap the lead car can accelerate whenever he wants once across the start/finish line or even the pit entry would be ok here, keep the overtaking rule after turn 1 of the racing lap the same.

I could agree with that, keeping in mind that the qualifying in GT5 is so ***** random, as of course this is a attempt to overcome.

I participated in a Calsonic GTR same car race last night, and the starting grid was totaly messed up. Out of 12 cars I qualified 4th, started 2´nd, The lead guy started 5th, and so on and so on. Even if I think the host tried to keep everyone on track during qualifying.

We just need to practice the rolling start with a steady pace. The problem for me in the back of the pack was sudden changes in speed. The cars in front of me could go from semifast to a dead stop. More than once. Doesnt bother me if the pace is slow or fast..just keep it steady. An uneven speed multiplies down through the pack, causing problems in the back.

 

[Dragonistic]

Qualifying only works if the host has chosen that as the method of grid selection, which is why I got pole correctly and everyone fell in to the right order for us. There's also a glitch which often occurs where it doesn't display the positions correctly, often displaying yourself as pole when you're not, but ultimately it still puts everyone in the correct place as can be verified by others.

However, the pole sitter is at a disadvantage if they have to wait until the straight (and everyone is on it) and it's going to cause a big bunch up due to slipstreaming on such long straights as Fuji and Tokyo. Sleeping or not with the draft everyone will bunch up on the leader and you'll have an awkward first turn as people brake at different points and we'll get accidental overtakes or contact.

Check the replay again, watch my lap before you judge it I was never accelerating or braking heavily the entire lap until I 'took control' properly on the final turn where I did an F1 style rolling start by choosing to bunch you up and then nail it. The top 3 drivers all held pace just fine whereas others were letting gaps form then full gassing it to catch and hard braking etc. which dominoes the field. The real problem is it only takes 1 person to not be smooth and everyone behind suffers and the same goes for the start if somebody is caught napping they will cause everyone behind to lose out.

I don't think there's a huge issue, if someone isn't paying attention and doesn't get on the gas quick enough it's just a reality of the rolling start we all know when the point of full throttle is so everyone should be ready at any time to hit the gas on or after that point.

 

[ID_racing]

Hi Dragonistic, my concern with the stop/start/fast/slow pace lap was not aimed at you. Rereading my post I can see it came out like that!

 

[Dragonistic]

I didn't necessarily think it was, I thought it might so I addressed it anyway, no offence taken 👍. More my point was if the first 3 of us managed it with ease then everyone else can to so long as there's not the odd person backing everyone up.

 

[MindlessRiff]

Why don't we have a rule which sets a pace lap speed of like 80 or something, and if there's an increasing/large gap allow up to 100 or so until you're the correct distance away? Maybe a minimum speed too? Unsure really, could get messy with so many rules, maybe just guidelines instead?

Maybe instead of that, we can do away with weaving and burnouts to get tyre temps, because IMO they're one of the culprits causing these concertinas, I'm guilty of this myself it doesn't make much difference really, it's just cool lol, makes you feel like a racing driver

 

[turbogeit]

I think a steady not to slow pace is the best to warm up tyres. No weaving, etc.
Just drive at about 120-130 km/h (80 miles) and slow down when needed in corners.
Acceleration may start at the beginning of the straight. If not, you will indeed have problems with guys in the back that accelerate to early.

Aim of rolling starts:

- Avoid car contacts, incidents (with standing starts we have each time problems). The big problem imo is that the side visibility is not good enough in on line racing for standing starts.
- Avoid massive start lag with 10-16 premium cars on the same part of the track.

Quyalif: We tried everything and the only formula that works is:

- reset all times (2x track change)
- once you are on track, you stay on it. Forbidden to go back to lounge or to go to the pits using exit button.

About the time gaps at rolling start:

After 40 minutes we sometimes see huge differences, look at the result at Tokyo: n°2 at 26 sec, n°3 at 31 sec, n°4 at 1:01.
It is true that the car in position 10 at the start perhaps looses 4 or 5 seconds more than what it would have lost at a standing start but if you see the differences at the end, that is not an issue.

 

[boshuter]

The rolling start is ok, but it should be a steady pace. If the leader tries to "stack up" the cars behind him to gain an advantage, he should be made to start last in the next race. This may not seem to be a big deal for the first 2 or 3 cars, but it multiplies back throught the field.

I'm not sure what the gaps after 40min have to do with the start.

Any rolling start with a no passing until after turn 1 rule should eliminate any pile up in the first turn. But, that will only work if the rule is enforced for everyone equally.

 

[Dragonistic]

So the leader is penalised because some people aren't ready to go at the point full throttle is allowed? That's frankly ridiculous, preposterous infact. Take my example again, I only bunched it up by braking a little early and taking it steady in the turn about 10mph under normal speed then accelerating off the turn making sure I hooked up the tyres, sure if someone pretty much stops they're doing it wrong but there's a line between tactical starts and unfair ones.

I don't see what people are complaining about really, the pace lap we had was fine and around the pace you'd expect, maxed out about 90mph on the back straight and took every turn 10mph or more below race pace slowing down early so there was no need to struggle. What needs discussion is the people who are allowing these gaps to form in the mid pack but ultimately it's in everyones interested to maintain the gap correctly and be prepared to go full throttle at the point they are allowed and not after.

The point turbo is making is that if you lost say 20 seconds (which is frankly ridiculously extreme) from the start in last and then finish a minute behind, you've lost 40 seconds in the race. There's enough time for the faster cars to come through the pack if they qualify badly, if this was a 3 lap sprint I could understand why anyone has an issue with the rolling starts.

The things of note are if you're leading, as we've discussed do nothing extreme and stay smooth and well within the limits and if you're following hold steady and don't let yourself be the person who backs everyone up and lets the guys infront get away.

 

[gator of kana]

Say are there any more series I could join in, my first experience to race in a series brought back nostalgia of why I fell in love with GT in the past. I would definitely wanna get more involved in this kind of business for GT5 in the summer while I'm off from school