Your faith in Gran Turismo - has it been permanently damaged?

[DivitLad]

Not a chance while I love too drive and awesome replays. Sure it's not the GT game I expected, but changes will come.

 

[Kraftwabe]

No. My faith is like Nordschleife. It's endless... Love the game.

 

[Boxster]

No. My faith is like Nordschleife. It's endless... Love the game.

Precioussshhh

 

[JScott]

I joined this forum just because I'm so disappointed and frustrated with this game I need an outlet. Seems everyone on facebook is defending this giant turd.

They worked on it for 8 ****ing years. how is this not the best racing game of all time? It sucks. It's a copy paste of Sport with FEWER features in many cases. It's just so damn bad I can't believe I spent money on it.

Every day I play this game I find something new that's annoying. compared to RDR2 where every time I loaded it up something blew me away in a positive way.

I've had every GT and recently spent $3K upgrading my rig for GT7... I'm just glad I have a gaming PC to fall back on.

 

[chromatic9]

Yes it has, I wasn't expecting this level of predatory systems from PD but managed to see what was going on straight away, hold off purchasing and call it out. Also them revealing the MTX after reviews is shameful and they know full well what they're doing. It's so bad that even if I wait for them to improve the game considerably it will forever leave a bad taste. Post release got even worse with them reducing payouts to tempt you into obscene credit prices. I used to think of PD as makers of finely crafted driving games, now it's Predatory Digital no holes barred that had the cheek to even use name Gran Turismo 7 and hail it as a return.

It is a really shame being a fan of the franchise since the first game. I bought the Japan version of GT5P just to play it early. GT7 should be bigger and better than GT5 12 years on, what we have at launch is nowhere good enough, it's like a GT Sport that's been reset with added pitfalls, I think of it as "GT Sport Freddy Krueger Edition" and picture Kaz with the glove. I have to wonder after the misstep of GT6 on PS3 and GT Sport being $10/euro very quickly and the lack of new cars, the glacial pace they move at, the lack of single player campaign and lack of thought to improve, is budget/time becoming a large problem. GT used to be a big earner but since the move to HD they've really struggled and now have turned their hand to this.

 

[Cheshyrkat]

GT7, so far, has really done nothing to improve or damage my faith in the series. I have been a fan since game 1 and honestly after 4 the series has been pretty stale. Pretty good at what it does but always room for improvement. Each new iteration leaving me disappointed in some way(s) and almost certainly wanting in others. Feeling, at times, pretty far behind other games in features or content. Still, I buy these games for the cars. Specifically the non racing cars and the ability to virtually build/track a car as I would in the real world if given the chance hoping this will be the time my current car is in the game.

 

[Don3hide]

I absolutely love this game. Probably because I haven't played since gt5 so everything is new and fresh. Brilliant game. Replays are fantastic.

 

[Silver Arrows]

The game is not an uprezzed PS4 title

Then what is it? Because we know the wide gulf of difference, power wise, that the PS4 and 5 have. Ergo, it's pretty clear, in my eyes, that GT7 was designed as a PS4 game first, and sized up to make it seem worthwhile for those on PS5 to buy in. But the fact of the matter is, is that the game was designed to run on the PS4 first, and absolutely could have been a true next-gen title and pushed the boundaries graphically that Polyphony has almost single-handedly focused on since GT5. But they didn't, and at some point they have to come to terms with the fact that two versions of the game need to be supported more or less fully, and that the next GT game, the first true next-gen GT game on PS5, might not even come for another five years, and might not even come on PS5.

Certainly, some of GT's problems could have been fixed if Polyphony took the chance to use this as a clean slate, next gen game and create for the PS5 in mind, and the PS5 only. But they didn't.

All of this is completely unrelated to the fact that the crux of this argument, that somehow GT needs to focus on creating a new graphics engine, is utterly blinkered beyond belief considering the one sided focus on graphics PD has done with since GT5.

 

[NotThePrez]

You dont know how marketing works? They can never say negative things in a release.

There's "never saying negative things," and then there's giving an totally dishonest description of the product. GT7, which was explicitly marketed as a complete game, and is clearly anything but, is very much in the latter category.

Take this as some sort of an early access

No. I'm not going to reward people who blatantly lie to others in order to get their money (which is part of the reason why I haven't gotten GT7, and absolutely won't buy it new). And yes, "thinking of it as an early access" does reward PD and Sony, because it means one less voice calling them out.

Also see @Scaff 's post earlier.

 

[NICKname]

No GT has ever ended worse than it began.

The series as a whole though has consistently declined since GT4, even if the games themselves improve over time. It's always been one step forwards, three steps back. And then another step forwards again, through updates. And then it repeats. GT7 somehow has a worse career mode than the already bad career mode from GT6, and GT5's career mode was at it's very best no improvement on GT4's career mode.

 

[SkyHigh]

Then what is it? Because we know the wide gulf of difference, power wise, that the PS4 and 5 have. Ergo, it's pretty clear, in my eyes, that GT7 was designed as a PS4 game first, and sized up to make it seem worthwhile for those on PS5 to buy in. But the fact of the matter is, is that the game was designed to run on the PS4 first, and absolutely could have been a true next-gen title and pushed the boundaries graphically that Polyphony has almost single-handedly focused on since GT5. But they didn't, and at some point they have to come to terms with the fact that two versions of the game need to be supported more or less fully, and that the next GT game, the first true next-gen GT game on PS5, might not even come for another five years, and might not even come on PS5.

Certainly, some of GT's problems could have been fixed if Polyphony took the chance to use this as a clean slate, next gen game and create for the PS5 in mind, and the PS5 only. But they didn't.

All of this is completely unrelated to the fact that the crux of this argument, that somehow GT needs to focus on creating a new graphics engine, is utterly blinkered beyond belief considering the one sided focus on graphics PD has done with since GT5.

It's not just that. The game is a PS4 game in it's core, but it's not just uprezzed. It has a wide variety of difference in the graphic settings, that make the game look that much better in fitting hardware (like tv's with great motion handling). LODs, draw distances, environment details, environment assets are all different. It's a cross gen game, and compared to others similar to it like Dirt 5, FH5, ACC (Console), it is doing just fine graphic-wise IMO. It's a nice polished looking game running at native res with much less image quality problems like pop-in for instance, than the competition. What I was saying is that at least now (before FM next gen exclusive), the game looks amazing and not anywhere near what the other poster was alluding to.

IMO, graphics is something PD doesn't get to be criticized anymore after GTS. GT5 and 6 were quite bad at times, but the last two games fit right in as graphic powerhouses, whereas a lot of stuff like AI, game design, features are arguably lacking behind other games

 

[ICEYOU3]

All of this is completely unrelated to the fact that the crux of this argument, that somehow GT needs to focus on creating a new graphics engine, is utterly blinkered beyond belief considering the one sided focus on graphics PD has done with since GT5.

If the graphics were a one-sided focus for PD since GT5 then I don't believe the standard vehicles would have been a thing.

What I was saying is that at least now (before FM next gen exclusive), the game looks amazing and not anywhere near what the other poster was alluding to.

Dude I put several hours into Weathertech last week for the Manufacturer's finale, that track looks like an upscaled PlayStation 2 asset (and keep in mind I game on a top flight monitor built for this stuff) I like GT7 quite a bit however it does not look better than Forza Horizon 5, but hey to each his own I guess.

 

[Joey D]

GT7 took a bit of a hit in my eyes due to the whole debacle, but I wouldn't say it was permanently damaged and unfixable. I knew GT7 was going to be a long, slow road to get to where it should be, GT5 and 6 were the same way and from the little bit I played of Sport, it was likely the same way too. There are some things in GT7 that I really don't like and some of the decisions are a bit weird, but all things considered, I'm pretty middle of the road with regards to the game. One of my biggest complaints is the how underwhelming the car list is, but I know that will likely get rectified over the coming months. The soundtrack is terrible too, but my benchmark is GT2 which probably had the best soundtrack of any game ever next to Tony Hawk Pro Skater. This isn't to say there aren't a bunch of things I do like though. I think GT Auto has some excellent changes, Scapes is still awesome, and graphically GT7 looks great, especially on the PS4.

 

[HarVee]

PD has moved to a games as a service model. They release rather incomplete games, however PD is known to support their games for at least 2 years after release. I'm still in a wait and see mode. I want GT7 to be the best it can be but I fear that may not happen until 2 years from now.

There is a lot of bitter taste in my mouth with the MTXs, reducing of payouts, invite only cars. But I am yet to give up the game. I still rather enjoy its foundation and look forward to the walls and flooring choice. If that analogy makes sense.

 

[MisterWaffles]

Hot take but I really don't see why people keep bringing up Evolution Studios so often as this golden example of racing game development.

Driveclub was a failure. It got mediocre reviews and the sales were abysmal. I own the game and I still think even with all the DLC the experience is pretty barebones and forgettable. All the game really had going for it were good graphics and sound design, paired with an acceptable arcade physics model (IMO of course).

That's not even mentioning the fact that the game needed to be constantly developed post-launch with new updates and DLC to get to this "greatest PlayStation racing game of all time" position people like to parade it around as. Kind of reminds me of another game's projected path towards completeness that is the subject of discussion here.

So no, given their track record with Driveclub, I really don't think Evolution Studios would have magically made the greatest GT game of all time if they were handed the franchise.

 

[Imari]

Thats why I said "some sort of". It is lilke an early access, without saying it is, and at full price. In other words, a rushed release.
Similar to what happened to Cd Projekt Red and Cyberpunk

...do you think that the backlash that CDPR got for Cyberpunk was overblown too?

I thought that CP2077 was the most widely accepted example of a major release that was just a complete disaster. Comparing any game release to CP2077 is savage criticism. Yet you seem to be using it to mean "it's not that bad, this stuff happens"?

Dude I put several hours into Weathertech last week for the Manufacturer's finale, that track looks like an upscaled PlayStation 2 asset (and keep in mind I game on a top flight monitor built for this stuff) I like GT7 quite a bit however it does not look better than Forza Horizon 5, but hey to each his own I guess.

If you want to say that Laguna Seca looks bad or not up to modern standards then just say that. It doesn't look like a PS2 asset. This is what a PS2 asset looks like. Surprisingly good for something built nearly 20 years ago, but nothing like anything in GT7.

 

[Biggles]

What faith?

GT4 was the pinnacle of the franchise because it represented a culminating achievement for the concept that Kazunori Yamauchi had envisaged. It seems like he ran out of ideas at that point & was left behind while other developers moved forward. The graphics have got progressively more detailed, but not much else has improved.

 

[Supaboost]

The game is broken content lacking crap once the nostalgia dies.

It'll never be a great GT game, me nor 90% of people wont care what it becomes in 2 years time. Bs excuses many make are plain pathetic.

This game would only be acceptable had GT7 been free to play day one exactly as is.

4 GTs in a row conviced me has been out of touch fools are in charge. I expect mediocrity and failure, not much more from them.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I haven't lost faith in Gran Turismo. In fact I'm more faithful than ever now.

 

[ICEYOU3]

If you want to say that Laguna Seca looks bad or not up to modern standards then just say that. It doesn't look like a PS2 asset. This is what a PS2 asset looks like. Surprisingly good for something built nearly 20 years ago, but nothing like anything in GT7.

Sure, but I meant looking upscaled through the use of an emulator perhaps PCSX2.

 

[MikoMiG31]

No but it's got me to be questionable and more cautious towards Sony NOT PDI. I do not blame them it's Sony telling them to do it. As for the game itself I'm on a wait and see what they give us.

 

[Imari]

Sure, but I meant looking upscaled through the use of an emulator perhaps PCSX2.

You still haven't bothered to actually look at it, because you'd know that's not the case. Laguna Seca as a location isn't exactly wildly exciting to look at in the first place, but there's a world of difference between PCSX2 in 4K with a bunch of plugins and shaders and what's in GT7.



Seriously. Just admit that you're wrong and you exaggerated.

I haven't lost faith in Gran Turismo. In fact I'm more faithful than ever now.

Kaz has a harem already, he's not browsing GTP looking for extras.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Kaz has a harem already, he's not browsing GTP looking for extras.

Don't know whether to take that as a joke or an insult.

 

[Imari]

Don't know whether to take that as a joke or an insult.

 

[ICEYOU3]

You still haven't bothered to actually look at it, because you'd know that's not the case. Laguna Seca as a location isn't exactly wildly exciting to look at in the first place, but there's a world of difference between PCSX2 in 4K with a bunch of plugins and shaders and what's in GT7.



Seriously. Just admit that you're wrong and you exaggerated.

Imari, I don't need to admit I was wrong and exaggerated just so you can feel patronized (That's the problem around here). I watched the video yes there is obviously a difference in shaders and such, but to me the GT4 footage shown doesn't look all that far off from GT7's. I suppose it goes to show you how far they pushed that 1999 console and how good PCSX2 is. I'm well aware Weathertech isn't the most prettiest place around, but there are definitely PS2-tier assets around that track and others in GT7 and it is disappointing to see.

We can even bring this to the PMs if you want.

 

[Imari]

Imari, I don't need to admit I was wrong and exaggerated just so you can feel patronized (That's the problem around here).

Lol, that's not what patronised means. I don't feel patronised at all, and I'm not patronising you either. That would suggest that I'm behaving in a way that's ostensibly helpful, whereas I'm just pointing out that what you're saying is wrong.

I watched the video and to me it doesn't look all that far off from GT7's footage. I suppose it goes to show you how far they pushed that 1999 console. I'm well aware Weathertech isn't the most prettiest place around, but there are definitely PS2-tier assets around that track in GT7 and it was disappointing to see.

If that's the hill you want to die on, far be it from me to stop you. The video is there and people can make their own call as to whether that's a reasonable conclusion to come to. You want to name any of these "definitely PS2-tier assets" specifically, or you want to keep it vague?

I see your goalposts have started sneaking away of their own accord though, it's now "doesn't look all that far off" and "there are PS2 assets around the track" instead of "it looks like a PS2 asset". You might want to keep an eye on them before they run all the way to "some of these pixels are the same pixels on PS2, I can tell from seeing quite a few games in my time".

We can even bring this to the PMs if you want.

No thank you, I'm perfectly comfortable discussing this in public. Aren't you?

 

[ScottPuss20]

View attachment 1133584

Joke it is then.

Imari, I don't need to admit I was wrong and exaggerated just so you can feel patronized (That's the problem around here). I watched the video yes there is obviously a difference in shaders and such, but to me the GT4 footage shown doesn't look all that far off from GT7's. I suppose it goes to show you how far they pushed that 1999 console and how good PCSX2 is. I'm well aware Weathertech isn't the most prettiest place around, but there are definitely PS2-tier assets around that track and others in GT7 and it is disappointing to see.

We can even bring this to the PMs if you want.

Not to be an arsehole or anything but Laguna Seca in GT4 is a long way off GT7 when it comes to accuracy.

 

[kjeldsen]

So I booted up GT7 yesterday and checked the Legendary Car Dealership. Spotted the Mercedes 300 SL for sale at a little over a million and thought this would be something worth grinding for. But then having completed the Menu Books with only a smattering of events left to complete, I just thought I can't be bothered engaging with this pointless grind anymore. Racing the same event for meagre payouts, just to win a car there's not even an appropriate event to use it in. The GT7 experience just feels incredibly hollow and seemingly rather pointless.

I think a lot of us would agree the last few months have been a very trying time as a Gran Turismo fan. I've been playing the series since 2000 and have always admired and respected the work of Polyphony Digital. GT4 represented the absolute pinnacle of the series, only for a steady decline to occur with subsequent instalments. However the brand damage done by GT7 has seriously shaken my faith in the developer. I no longer believe Kaz and his team are capable of creating a compelling "game" any more. Don't get me wrong, the "feel" of GT, the driving in itself, is still incredible. But the "game" side is just sorely lacking and hopelessly outdated. Unlike Sport mode, the PVE experience is woefully unsatisfying with no sense of competition thanks to it's hopelessly outdated chase the rabbit AI.

Personally I feel like I've reached a bit of a turning point with the series. I've just lost faith with the franchise having been repeatedly disappointed with recent instalments. Why is it so hard for PD to create a compelling campaign mode? If PD actually communicated with their community they would know what their audience demanded. I feel like a lot of the fans on GTPlanet understand what it is that makes a truly great Gran Turismo game. If only PD could be bothered to listen and take their opinions into consideration.

As much as I respect Kaz for all that he's done with GT as a franchise, I think it's time he passed the reins on to a new generation of developers. Either within Polyphony or further afield. Imagine what Evolution Studios could have done for example, given their excellent work on Drive Club. The series needs a fresh start and new perspectives to move forward. Otherwise the goodwill the brand has built up over the last 25 years will continue to be exhausted if the disappointments continue.

Here's my question for the GTPlanet community, does GT7 represent the end of the road for you? If not, how badly has your faith been shaken in the franchise and do you trust PD to restore the series to its former glories?

Personally I'll be taking a break from the franchise but will continue to keep an eye on things hoping for positive developments. Whether PD can restore my faith is another question entirely, but the fact is I simply don't think they're capable of fixing an inherently broken and downright boring game.

The worst part of the game is the wheel of misfortune because it will disappoint more than satisfy.

The expensive cars are those you either grind for or get after playing the game for a long time. I really want the CLK but I know it will be back and now I have something long term to work on. Losing faith over hard to optain loot would have stopped me playing years ago.

Buying the credits simply makes no sense since it's so expensive that I don't consider it micro transactions. And on the other side if I need 100.000 cr it will take me 15 minutes to get those in the game.

If I could buy the car in the PSN shop i would be tempted.

 

[inkcil]

Then what is it? Because we know the wide gulf of difference, power wise, that the PS4 and 5 have. Ergo, it's pretty clear, in my eyes, that GT7 was designed as a PS4 game first, and sized up to make it seem worthwhile for those on PS5 to buy in. But the fact of the matter is, is that the game was designed to run on the PS4 first, and absolutely could have been a true next-gen title and pushed the boundaries graphically that Polyphony has almost single-handedly focused on since GT5. But they didn't, and at some point they have to come to terms with the fact that two versions of the game need to be supported more or less fully, and that the next GT game, the first true next-gen GT game on PS5, might not even come for another five years, and might not even come on PS5.

Certainly, some of GT's problems could have been fixed if Polyphony took the chance to use this as a clean slate, next gen game and create for the PS5 in mind, and the PS5 only. But they didn't.

All of this is completely unrelated to the fact that the crux of this argument, that somehow GT needs to focus on creating a new graphics engine, is utterly blinkered beyond belief considering the one sided focus on graphics PD has done with since GT5.I

I agree with your statements. Let me also add (and this gets a bit off topic), GT4 was great to me. But then GT5 struggled to release...too many prologues and HD concepts, etc. The finished product, GT5 XL, I did enjoy a great deal, but some of the credit goes to the fact that the PS3 era brought us into HD. GT6 should have been built from the ground up solely for the PS4 and released in 2017 or 2018 instead of GT Sport. Then GT7 could have released in 2023 for PS5. But this studio struggled with the transition into HD, and apparently it hasn't really recovered since.

If they release GT8 towards the end of the PS5 life cycle though, they will be right back where they were in 2013 developing GT6 for the PS3. PD should just make this the sole PS5 version of GT, and when they get the development kits (or whatever they're called) for the PS6, begin making GT8 for that system so that it launches solely for that system within the first 2-3 years of system launch. IMO that's the only way we can get out of this current situation we're in, where PD is caught between 2 generations and not really delivering a game that brings us all together.

 

[ICEYOU3]

Lol, that's not what patronised means. I don't feel patronised at all, and I'm not patronising you either. That would suggest that I'm behaving in a way that's ostensibly helpful, whereas I'm just pointing out that what you're saying is wrong.

Pretty sure the definition of patronizing also means having a superior attitude towards others followed by a nice dosage of condescension, which is the vibe I get from you and others around here at times. Maybe you don't realize it?

If that's the hill you want to die on, far be it from me to stop you. The video is there and people can make their own call as to whether that's a reasonable conclusion to come to. You want to name any of these "definitely PS2-tier assets" specifically, or you want to keep it vague?

I see your goalposts have started sneaking away of their own accord though, it's now "doesn't look all that far off" and "there are PS2 assets around the track" instead of "it looks like a PS2 asset". You might want to keep an eye on them before they run all the way to "some of these pixels are the same pixels on PS2, I can tell from seeing quite a few games in my time".

I just said the GT4 footage "doesn't look far off" that's excluding the issues I have with Gran Turismo 7's visuals. Anyway as I stated before... PS2 "tier" not meaning literal assets used from old versions of the game themselves if that's what you mean in that second retort. I figured this was obvious but it appears not, so I'll explain. Open up Weathertech for instance and allow a few seconds for the prompts to disappear and you'll see what I'm talking about. Flat and low poly ground texture, Stagnant 2D meme trees, 2D Foliage sprites all over Corkscrew hill as well as other parts of the track and to top it off a non-festive atmosphere. As you probably know this isn't the only track where this all occurs, it's blatantly obvious at Brands Hatch at the beginning of each rolling start race. I'm convinced we have a "Premium" & "Standard" track debacle on our hands.

The trees aren't even animated whenever it is windy at any particular track. I like how the NPC cars are animated this time around, but that doesn't excuse how horribly textured they are when PD could have easily used car models from Brand Central instead of these Gen-6 tier ones they came up with.

The game uses graphical techniques we've seen done in the 6th generation of gaming (PS2 Era) that have been more or less abandoned in modern times. And despite how "souless" and "sterile" Driveclub was that game still feels 3 generations ahead (visually speaking) of what the Polybois gave us for our $500 consoles. Gran Turismo 7's visuals seem almost bi-polar to me in a way, ranging from very beautiful to downright awful.

No thank you, I'm perfectly comfortable discussing this in public. Aren't you?

That's quite alright by me! I only asked, because I'm not sure what is considered to be on topic in this post anymore.