FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Bogie 19th]

Forza 4....the King of Racers

 

[vandaliser]

It's official YOU are the one not knowing what you are talking about.
Nothing is wrong with AMERICAN gaming review sites, until they go against what you want?
Also, for track innacuracies in GT look no further than Laguna Seca. Has it occurred to you that not everyone cares about Nurburgring? Also, it's not an inaccuracy it was made intentionally like that for Online racing.
I'd rather be able to have fun racing on the track than to have to wait 5 or 6 turns every lap for an passing attempt.

First off, no need to get personal. Believe me, you don't want to get to that route. I know from experience.

Secondly, american review sites are completely inept. Look at their resistance 2 reviews. Look at the laughable GTA4 reviews. They picked incompetent people who probably never heard of Gran Turismo and reviewed.
The guy in gamespot review said 'i can't drift in this like in how it is Burnout' I kid you not. You expect me to take people like this seriously?

Thirdly, i would love to see laguna seca inaccuracies. Please post them so we can all see it.

And finally, as for the nurbugring issue, i cannot believe you would exchange authenticity for 'fun' as you put it. Newsflash. I have driven a billion times on it GT5 and it's fun a million times. And you know what? You can actually pass people provided you know the corners and braking spots required. It just takes a bit of skill

 

[FyreandIce]

Secondly, american review sites are completely inept. Look at their resistance 2 reviews. Look at the laughable GTA4 reviews. They picked incompetent people who probably never heard of Gran Turismo and reviewed.
The guy in gamespot review said 'i can't drift in this like in how it is Burnout' I kid you not. You expect me to take people like this seriously?

And you think that "problem" is exclusive to GT reviews?

Which was the FM4 review that had the guy say it feels exactly the same to drive as FM3 then moments later said it's totally different?

 

[vandaliser]

So as soon as Forza is rated higher than GT the reviews are instantly biased and the reviewers are bribed, correct?

And fyi, 3 of the 6 perfect scores for FM4 on Metacritic are from European reviewers. Are European reviewers now super biased and know nothing?

European reviwers with the exception of Edge who seem to have a hard on for all things xbox tend to give credit where it is due.

You won't find a european comparing drifting between GT and Burnout for instance and then use it to bash GT.

 

[FyreandIce]

European reviwers with the exception of Edge who seem to have a hard on for all things xbox tend to give credit where it is due.

You won't find a european comparing drifting between GT and Burnout for instance and then use it to bash GT.

So why do you ignore the 3 perfect scores from Euro reviewers none of which are Edge?

 

[Symtex]

To me, GT is like that old grandmother everyone loves. She keeps baking the same delicious pie and you keep wanted me because it's that good.

Forza is like the hot girl next door. She does a lot more different thing. She might not be experienced but she is a fun ride.

 

[NA]

To me, GT is like that old grandmother everyone loves. She keeps baking the same delicious pie and you keep wanted me because it's that good.

Forza is like the hot girl next door. She does a lot more different thing. She might not be experienced but she is a fun ride.

Best analogy of the day award goes to.....

 

[shirakawaa]

What about: GT is like Keiichi Tsuchiya, Forza is like Ken Block.

 

[NA]

Nah, I had a hot girl next door. Well, not had, but she was next door. I'd much rather think of her than Ken Block.

 

[vandaliser]

So why do you ignore the 3 perfect scores from Euro reviewers none of which are Edge?

I don't think you get my point. You won't find european reviewers trashing a game with inept comments and snarky remarks and yet give perfect scores to a similar type game.


That's the issue. You don't have to believe me. All one has to do apart from the ones i have already mentioned is to look at the majority of American reviewers reviewing F4. GT is mentioned in almost all of them and it's almost sad to see the bitterness and snarkiness in those comments. It seems to almost pain them to give any sort of positive remarks about Gran Turismo. You don't have to take my word for it.

It's all over the interwebs.There's only word for this mentality. Jealousy. And my mama always says there's no cure for jealousy

 

[PzR Slim]

So people on your ignore list show up in quotes. That's interesting.

lol, I found that also.

 

[JDMKING13]

What about: GT is like Keiichi Tsuchiya, Forza is like Ken Block.

👍 Tsuchiya is great on Bestmotoring.

 

[Luminis]

So why do you ignore the 3 perfect scores from Euro reviewers none of which are Edge?

Because it doesn't further his point. That's why. This isn't about gaming websites being biased because of their nationality, it's about gaming websites being "biased" because they gave Forza a higher score than GT.

I don't know why, but it seems like it's impossible for some people to accept that Forza was rightfully rated better than GT. It seems they just can't comprehend that. So, instead of just going with the logical reasoning that Forza might indeed be a better game across its entirety, they come up with reasons as to why these reviews are invalid.

Forza 4's current 92 on Metacritic is based on 38 reviews, GT5's 84 on 82 reviews. That's a pretty decent number of reviews. Sure, there are some biased ones, rating either game too highly or too lowly. That happens. But assuming that the majority of all those reviews is biased against GT5 and favours FM4 is stretching it, really.

But, I guess some folks would rather cling to some weird conspiracy theories than just accept that the Forza franchise has (again) gotten very high scores and the GT franchise, for once, didn't get that high.

 

[Scaff]

First off, no need to get personal. Believe me, you don't want to get to that route. I know from experience.

The pair of you can stop it.

Attacks on either groups (all American gaming sites are biased - really) or individuals are both covered by the AUP.

Fall to follow this and I can assure you that both of you will be banned from GT Planet until after the launch of FM4.


Scaff

 

[Da-Bomber]

European reviwers with the exception of Edge who seem to have a hard on for all things xbox tend to give credit where it is due.

You won't find a european comparing drifting between GT and Burnout for instance and then use it to bash GT.

Link? Just watched the review again and can't find that mention of Burnout and GT in being compared anywhere. Are you making stuff up?

 

[JDMKING13]

I personally don't care about scores and that great FM4 got great scores it is a good game 👍. How much the game sales is what I tend to look at more though.

 

[Sselecta]

But, I guess some folks would rather cling to some weird conspiracy theories than just accept that the Forza franchise has (again) gotten very high scores and the GT franchise, for once, didn't get that high.

I can only speak for myself, but as a Gran Turismo fan I love the fact that FM4 is getting high review scores. I really do. Turn 10 has set a new standard. A little competition in the racing genre on consoles is something that I very much welcome and wouldn't hurt our beloved and almighty GT series.

It's time to regain the throne.

 

[stippe]

After reading of some posts I still cant belive what people arguing about.
If I like Ferrari more than Porsche (for example) no one in the world can't prove me that I'm wrong because it is just PERSONAL OPINION. no matter some facts that may come in Porsches favor.

Just to be clear, here speaking a huge GT fan (way from PSX and very first GT).
I like GT5, but not as much as I expected, and its maybe the worst in the series (speaking of full titles, so 1-5). So, in my opinion, GT2 and GT4 are the best from the series (thats keep me thinking that GT6 MAY be great too ). And I generaly like driving/racing games (played a lot titles) and definitely would like to try Forza one day, thinking about second-handed X360 and FM3 & FM4. So I can say that Forzas are a mayor driving/racing games I didnt try jet, so looking forward to it.
And it is not in the end of my mind to bash Forza just because I'm a GT fan (and still didnt play the game/s).

All this reminds me of me and my friend arguing sometimes GT5 vs. SHIFT2. Personaly I never was a big fan of NFS so 'fight' is always mainly pointless in the end because I can't convince that GT5 is better game that SHIFT2 and my friend cant convince me that is a opposite way. So there, we get at start of all this, to Ferraris and Porsches...

P.S. I hope that point I intend to make is obvious

Cheers racing fans (no matter be you 'Ferrari' or a 'Porsche' fan, ... or 'Mazda' fan )

 

[Bogie 19th]

I personally don't care about scores and that great FM4 got great scores it is a good game 👍. How much the game sales is what I tend to look at more though.

Sales is usually the least thing I look at. In fact, I rarely look at sales. Quality is greater than quantity.

 

[PzR Slim]

I can only speak for myself, but as a Gran Turismo fan I love the fact that FM4 is getting high review scores. I really do. Turn 10 has set a new standard. A little competition in the racing genre on consoles is something that I very much welcome and wouldn't hurt our beloved and almighty GT series.

It's time to regain the throne.

This, this and thrice this! Competition can only be good for us gamers. Hopefully PD will look to implement the things FM has done better and T10 will look to implement the things GT has done better. The result can only be better games.

 

[Da-Bomber]

I personally don't care about scores and that great FM4 got great scores it is a good game 👍. How much the game sales is what I tend to look at more though.

Sales mean nothing, or else Cod would be the greatest game this gen.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Shift 2's versions of Suzuka and Catalunya were so off I almost didn't recognise the tracks at all. Seeing elevation changes at Sebring in Shift 2 actually made me start laughing. That game was such a mess.

I guess you didnt play Shift2 since you dont know Sebring wasnt in the game...not even a fantasy driven one.

I don't think you get my point.

Nobody does. For a couple reasons. You have never played Forza. You said yourself you dont plan on playing Forza. You have no point, because you have no credit. All you do is bash it, because you like GT5.

 

[ItsHim]

If GT5 is currently king, and better physics and accuracy would make FM4 king, how come games that do that already aren't king? That's all I'm saying.

Because they don't deliver the rest of the package like GT does. Simple as. Supercar Challenge has far superior FFB and modeling of weight transfer, braking is a true joy, but it's a niche product. FM isn't.

Wait a second. PSN was down for weeks, for every single PSN user there is. With credit card info of a whole darn lot of people being leaked as well. and you compare that to some people having issues with FM2's auction house? Are you that desperate to make a point?

You have obviously no idea just how important those rare liveries/cars were/are in the core FM community, otherwise you would understand the grave implications such a "glitch" had at the time back then. Yes, to many it was far worse than loosing their CC details.

The only desperate thing I can see is you trying to defend a point you made and failed to do so. You stated XBL wasn't hacked. Well, it at least was "glitched" in respect of the FM2 AH.

I more than once mentioned that XBL is far superior to PSN. But not without its own flaws. If you don't want to hear that, stick a finger in your ear.

Well, yeah, 5/10 game and 10/10 simulator would equal a 7.5/10 rating, not 8.5/10.

And if you want to have a mathematically correct end score, for GT5, it was:

Presentation: 7
Graphics: 9
Sound: 8
Gameplay: 9
Lasting Appeal: 9

Total: 42. Devided by 5 = 8.4.

And Forza 4:

Presentation: 9.5
Graphics: 9.5
Sound: 9.5
Gameplay: 9.5
Lasting Appeal: 10

Total: 48. Devided by 5 = 9.6.

Yeah, those averages are so far off, mathematically, it's barely believable! And if you don't like the averages, they rated FM4 higher in every single category individually, anyways.

I mean, I'm sure you'll come up with another reason as to why those scores are meaningless, even if both are coming from the site you yourself said wasn't clueless about what they were saying, but still...

You are right in that respect.

It is a mathematical error to add up marks and make an average because that's not how it works.

10 is better than 1, but there's no information how much better it is. It's on an ordinal scale. Thus you can't do averages because it's mathematically incorrect. Simple.

IGN gives, afair, a final score which is not an average. Fair enough, if they think FM3 was a better game, then I can see their points.

The one thing I'm stating on the last couple of hundred pages is that FM is not the better car game: that's still GT to me and unless T10 don't get that bit right (on many layers), it will stay so in my opinion.

 

[BusierDonkey]

They aren't THAT off. Catalunya has some inaccuracies here and there, same as Suzuka, but nothing very blatant, like Bathurst or Road America for example. And Sebring it's not on the game...

I have no idea why I wrote Sebring there. I was thinking of flat tracks and that popped into my head. I was talking about Laguna Seca (at least I was in the right country, just the wrong end of it) with the elevation changes, or at least I meant to be, lol. It's like they took the real location, then squashed it so all the elevation changes were reduced 50% and the end result is what was put into Shift 2. The Corkscrew was the worst part, it wasn't steep, it was just oddly banked to exagerate the twist and incline. I suppose the best way to describe it would be to watch an onboard driver cam Youtube video of a given track. The cameras are fisheyed, and they have the effect of diminishing elevation changes on the track. You could watch one of those videos and say that Laguna Seca is perfect in Shift 2.

My biggest gripe wasn't just the geometry of the tracks, but that the tracks no longer resembled thier real-world counterparts. Add banners, billboards, tents, stands, even entire buildings popped up all over the tracks. As if there isn't already enough advertising littering racetracks.

I can swap between GT, Forza and even PGR4 and the tracks are all very similar in layout and environment, some are prettier, some seem to be at different times of the year, etc. But they were all clearly modeled with the intent of replicating the real location. Important background elements are almost identical throughout the games including far off environment items. I actually found racing on Suzuka easier at night in Shift 2 because all the stuff that was added that doesn't belong was blacked out. It's almost as if SMS took the general track layout, sprinkled it with glitter, added a touch of pizzazz , then popped it in the easy-bake until they could smell the sparkle.

My other major gripe was that alot of the turns on alot of the tracks that have a banking in real life were pancake flat in Shift 2. It wouldn't have been an issue but those turns are banked in every game I've played forcing me to drop an extra gear or brake early and change my line. Whether done to add difficulty or force you into the marbles, I don't know.

To be fair I don't have a ton of time into Shift 2, maybe 20 hours. I bought it to kill time before FM4, but so far my time with it has been frustrating at best. I finished every GT up to GT4 100%, every Forza, Race Pro, Sega GTs, Grid, and each of the PGR titles and enjoyed them all from the start. I have never given up on a racing title, but this may be a first for me.

Sorry, bit of an off-topic rant.

 

[Luminis]

Because they don't deliver the rest of the package like GT does. Simple as. Supercar Challenge has far superior FFB and modeling of weight transfer, braking is a true joy, but it's a niche product. FM isn't.

Which is precisely why I said narrowing it down to just physics and track accuracy is just futile. Both games have a very broad focus that includes more than the pure simulation aspect, and yet, it was only that small part of simulation aspect that was singled out the two only important criteria that FM4 would have had to fulfill in order to be better.

You have obviously no idea just how important those rare liveries/cars were/are in the core FM community, otherwise you would understand the grave implications such a "glitch" had at the time back then. Yes, to many it was far worse than loosing their CC details.

The only desperate thing I can see is you trying to defend a point you made and failed to do so. You stated XBL wasn't hacked. Well, it at least was "glitched" in respect of the FM2 AH.

So, I said it wasn't hacked, and it wasn't hacked. A glitch in FM2's auction house, okay. How the hell am I wrong in saying that it wasn't hacked, though, when it indeed wasn't? A glitch is a glitch and a hack is a hack, period.

And, well, I know the Forza core community quite well, but I'd say that it's more of an issue if a lot of people are losing real money due to their credit card info being leaked than a few gamers (and the core communitty that cared that much about stuff like that wasn't that big, even back then) having issues with FM2's auction house.

Hell, that whole thing cause notable financial losses to Sony, even their stock quotation went down! Adn you're comparing that to a glitch in FM2's auction house... I mean, that's not even in the same league of an issue. Even mainstream media reported about that stuff, and I doubt you'll find news about FM2's autcion house being glitched on actual newspapers!

I more than once mentioned that XBL is far superior to PSN. But not without its own flaws. If you don't want to hear that, stick a finger in your ear.

Nobody's saying it's flawless. Well, I am not. However, I can't see how the glicth in FM2's auction house stacks up to PSN being hacked, at all.

But that's something I noticed about a few people here: If you say something's better than the other, they automatically assume you consider the product you're preffering to be flawless. I don't know why, but I guess I won't get that, anyways, so I won't bother trying to wrap my head around that.

You are right in that respect.

It is a mathematical error to add up marks and make an average because that's not how it works.

10 is better than 1, but there's no information how much better it is. It's on an ordinal scale. Thus you can't do averages because it's mathematically incorrect. Simple.

IGN gives, afair, a final score which is not an average. Fair enough, if they think FM3 was a better game, then I can see their points.

The one thing I'm stating on the last couple of hundred pages is that FM is not the better car game: that's still GT to me and unless T10 don't get that bit right (on many layers), it will stay so in my opinion.

So, what you're basically saying is, them rating the game for what it is, all of it, and not overlooking its shortcomings is why you won't consider ratings important, eh?

Sorry, but that's just an excuse, in my opinion. If they criticize the sound, the graphics and the single player career, does that not make it a worse car game? What you're saying is, you're ignoring a lot of stuff and then go on to consider their rating to not be representative.

Granted, it's fine to like whatever game because of personal preferences. I know there are some games that were rated low which I enjoyed quite a bit because they catered to my personal taste. However, my personal taste is just going to be far less representative than a rating based on the game's entirety.

So, in conclusion, I'd say that the average rating of a lot of reviews (like what can be seen at Metacritic) is largely representative for how good a game is. Not for how good a certain part of it is, but the game as a whole. And I don't see much reason to look at it otherwise.

But I liked how you went from "the averages are not mathematically correct" to "they don't represent the important stuff properly". What do you expect, find a little text at the end of the IGN review that says "the physics are super awesome for a console racer, so we just added 1.5 points on top of the review to make it a 10/10 game, because it's all about cars"?

And, last but not least, I always get the feeling that some people are tailoring their 'priorities' to GT's strenghts, but that's a different topic alltogehter.

 

[Spagetti69]

I personally don't care about scores and that great FM4 got great scores it is a good game 👍. How much the game sales is what I tend to look at more though.

Did you buy Duke nuke-em?

I wondered what type of character bought that.

Got absolutely slated in the gaming press.
Still sold well on release. Most returned game within a week.

Edit on a more related topic.

I've just booted up GT5 after months.

 

[Symtex]

Best analogy of the day award goes to.....

Thanks. Unfortunately it's simple logic/analogy does nothing for this thread which is filled with blinded opinions. It's almost inconceivable that someone could love both games.. What a radical point of view...

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

I personally don't care about scores and that great FM4 got great scores it is a good game 👍. How much the game sales is what I tend to look at more though.

Need For Speed is the greatest car game ever sold then....because that series has sold over 100 million copies(as of Oct.09), very well could be over 150 Million by now.


That's how much logic you make.

 

[JDMKING13]

Need For Speed is the greatest car game ever sold then....because that series has sold over 100 million copies(as of Oct.09), very well could be over 150 Million by now.


That's how much logic you make.

Come on big guy you don't think your taking it to another level? 1st of GT, and FM are the only two series I'm comparing because they are similar (FM Vs GT thread) I also never said anything about which series sold more I said I look at sales when judging a game which both games did well in different ways. If you guys wanna take what reviewers say about game and give them king of racers tittle that's cool with me, so just chill.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Need For Speed is the greatest car game ever sold then....because that series has sold over 100 million copies(as of Oct.09), very well could be over 150 Million by now.


That's how much logic you make.

Come on big guy you don't think your taking it to another level? 1st of GT, and FM are the only two series I'm comparing because they are similar (FM Vs GT thread) I also never said anything about which series sold more I said I look at sales when judging a game which both games did well in different ways. If you guys wanna take what reviewers say about game and give them king of racers tittle that's cool with me, so just chill.

So if FM outsells GT than its a better game and vice versa? Or you wont buy a game unless it sells well? Makes....perfect...sense...