FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)
- Thread starter Scaff
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This is something that I see a bit on the forums..
You do seem to be systematically arguing yourself into a smaller and smaller set of criteria by which you are defining 'simulation'..
I thought I better point out that lap times as a prime example of proof of 'simulation' is meaningless..
You have to accept that compared to the real world there are a massive amount of things any game just doesn't model, there are many more 'bumps' and track surface inconsistencies in real life, coupled with the very demonstrable limited simulation set of the tyres/suspension/chassis that all games suffer from, and you can see that comparing lap times in-game to real life is totally futile.
If anything, it's more probable that the closer a game gets to real life lap times when it has obvious deficiences, the less accurate it probably is.
You would expect that all laptimes should be fairly quicker then real life based on 2 items
1. Consequence of getting it wrong aren't a concern of the driver
2. The relative smoothness and consistency of the track/tyres/suspension modelling
Scaff
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Really, which model of Skyline, what modifications and what track.
Oh - it is only fair to point out that I used to work for Renault/Nissan so have a bit of experience in this area.
I would also be interested in knowing which of the two physics 'versions' (on or off line) you will be using and also your explanation as to why the two exist, along with why RWD cars don't act as they should under full throttle launches, differing cars having the same lateral-g figures of the same tyre compound and the differences we find in comparison to real world suspension tuning.
Scaff
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- HighSeasHoMastr
- HighSeasHoMastr
Skyline r33 , i think 450 hp and ln a spall track
But the problem Or the fact that you think that some cars have the same lateral-g is not true (proof once at home)
Cool car man, you got some pics? And what exactly is a Spall Track? I know English is probably not your first language, but I'm having some trouble working that one out.
However, with the thing about tires and lateral G forces, I have to say: The evidence presented in the thread that was linked is pretty conclusive, and has been pretty well vetted by a large group of people who, to be frank, have a lot more credibility than you do right now. Whatever "evidence" exists at your house that you've been promising to show for like a week will need to be very, very convincing and be beyond any reasonable doubt of being doctored for you to change the minds of anyone around here.
Looking forward to seeing both your car and this evidence though! The car sounds really cool!
- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
soheibV12
Have camera left at house?
Brend
Premium
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- ClassicBrend
You clearly see he is French and yet it tease him about his grammar. Bad, bad show there.
👎
Can get an xBox-360 for £100 with Forza 4 included, seriously considering it to keep me busy for a few months.When I had a 360 before RROD F3 kept me busy for about a month - which isn't bad at all! I just want another racing game to play and I would like to enjoy both at the end of the day. 👍
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- 10,403
- GTP_Spag69
- spagetti69
Aww love him.
- 1,732
- cuco33
Looking at soheibV12's post #7608, and all his other posts, I wonder if he just copied and pasted that here. The language barrier didn't seem to be a problem with 7608 like we see with all his other posts 
So getting back to my last post here, has anyone experienced the same types of differences between 'same' cars and a track like Laguna Seca?
So getting back to my last post here, has anyone experienced the same types of differences between 'same' cars and a track like Laguna Seca?
cuco33Looking at soheibV12's post #7608, and all his other posts, I wonder if he just copied and pasted that here. The language barrier didn't seem to be a problem with 7608 like we see with all his other posts
So getting back to my last post here, has anyone experienced the same types of differences between 'same' cars and a track like Laguna Seca?
It wasn't a copy - sorry
- 5,768
- Anoka, MN
He's right, it's not just a karting track.
http://www.motorsportcircuitguide.com/circuit-directory.php?id=65
http://www.motorsportcircuitguide.com/circuit-directory.php?id=65
Joey D
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- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
If you're talking about this track:
http://www.pole-mecanique.fr/portal/portal/polemeca/circuits/vitesse
Then the longest straight is only 335 meters, that's 1100 feet or less than a quart mile. Even if you came off that turn at 80mph, I have a feeling it would be really hard to get to 186mph before the braking point of the next turn.
I suppose you could hit it coming down the 700m backside of the track. However, that car better have some pretty solid rubber on it, along with good brakes and some downforce since there are still two sweeping turns. Not to mention a good deal of power and a trans with the right ratios.
Scaff
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Given that the longest straight at Ales is under 400m I find the 180 mph claim rather wild, 450 bhp is enough to get the car well past that speed but the distance required, including the need to slow down for the long sweeper at the end of the south straight is well off the mark.
The entire track is only 2.5 km in length.
http://www.pole-mecanique.fr/portal/portal/polemeca/circuits/vitesse
http://www.motorsportcircuitguide.com/circuit-directory.php?id=65
Scaff
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- HighSeasHoMastr
- HighSeasHoMastr
I just ran some pretty basic math on this, and the car would need to be constantly accelerating at more than 7.6m/s (more than 1.4 times the maximum recorded acceleration rate of the Ferrari Enzo) to even have a prayer of achieving that speed over that distance, and that's not counting the need to slow down before the corner at the end of it. Granted, that's assuming a standing start, but looking at the track map you should be able to hold 100-120kph onto the straight, so that probably about cancels out the need to slow down in my calculations...
This must be one serious Skyline. 450 horsepower must have been a serious lowball on the power figure
Anyways...
You had a great post that got overlooked a couple pages back mate. Your observations were really good. I have run similarly-upgraded cars on a few of the common tracks between the games and have had similar experiences to you. A large part of the wierdness in GT5 comes from the incredibly simplistic way that the game deals with tyres and cornering load. Since the tyres are simply grip-increasing constant modifiers, it leads to some cars being significantly too fast or too slow on a given compound.
These may be caused by the lack of proper side-to-side traction loss in GT5. This is somewhat indicated by the testing Scaff has done with the RWD launch, so it wouldn't surprise me to see that the game doesn't properly model lateral grip loss due to cresting a hill at less than a straight-on angle.
But this is better than FM's sticky grass right?
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- 10,957
- Canada
But this is better than FM's sticky grass right?
I can not believe everyone had for gotten all about that. So does that mean both GT5 and FM4 are tied now?Plus in GT5 how the cars wheels drag into the grass, it simulates how it affects the cars handing if it touches the slightest bit of it.
I never seen sticky grass before except mud or dirt being in it.
Scaff
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No one's forgotten about it, the subject gets discussed on a regular basis.
Really. I've put tyres on grass at tracks (in the real world) and very rarely does it result in spinny death, certainly not to the degree GT would have you believe.Plus in GT5 how the cars wheels drag into the grass, it simulates how it affects the cars handing if it touches the slightest bit of it.
And I've never seen icy grass on a sunny track with summer temperatures.I never seen sticky grass before except mud or dirt being in it.
Neither titles uses these effects realistically, they are both crude anti-cheat mechanisms and would be better done away with in my opinion.
Scaff
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Plus in GT5 how the cars wheels drag into the grass, it simulates how it affects the cars handing if it touches the slightest bit of it.
I never seen sticky grass before except mud or dirt being in it.
Watch any form of touring car racing and you will see lots of occasions when cars take to dry grass without any problem apart from a bit of lost time. Sticky grass is purely a feature to try and combat those that cheat, not ideal but necessary.
- 10,957
- Canada
I know it's to stop cheaters. But how about a rainy day at the track? Will the grass be slippery then? I know the road will. How about snow? That's more slippery.
Hey Scaff, you should try this on a rainy day aswell.
Hey Scaff, you should try this on a rainy day aswell.
- 2,756
- Brisbane
- thelvynau
- Thelvynau
PzR Slim
I dont like the sticky grass. I cant remember which track it was ill have to check when im on forza again there is a part near a small chicane where one wheel lightly brushed the grass and my car almost stopped dead pretty annoying.
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