Formula 1 Pirelli Gran Premio d'Italia 2022Formula 1

[andrea]

The interviewer is 110% Italian

 

[MagpieRacer]

Leclerc-Russell front row and all Mclaren row 2 I believe? De Vries goes from 8th.

 

[Famine]

And now the long wait to find out who actually starts where...

all Mclaren row 2

Worth flagging that McLaren managed the only team 1-2 of the entire 2021 season at this race last year

 

[NICKname]

Leclerc-Russell front row and all Mclaren row 2 I believe? De Vries goes from 8th.

 

[andrea]

With the high downforce setup Red Bull has, if Max gets within DRS, it’s over.

 

[TumeK5]

Easy win for Leclerc tomorrow.

Verstappen doesn't start THAT far back

Unless... 🐎🤡

This will most likely happen too.

Refer to my avatar.

 

[PeterJB]

Here are the updated qualifying averages:

Leclerc +0.089
Verstappen +0.201
Sainz +0.273
Perez +0.603
Russell +0.926
Norris +1.075
Hamilton +1.089
Alonso +1.316
Ocon +1.405
Gasly +1.630
Bottas +1.676
Ricciardo +1.708
Tsunoda +1.784
Magnussen +1.849
Schumacher +2.077
Zhou +2.087
Vettel +2.134
Albon +2.212
Stroll +2.254
Latifi +2.942

 

[Liquid]

Refer to my avatar.

Mine is eternally relevant.

 

[TumeK5]

Mine is eternally relevant.

Ferrari's team is eternally in a state of fission.

 

[Samus]

EDIT: Nevermind, I've goofed it all up.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Sky is showing the same.
edit2: Now they're saying Verstappen will start 7th.

edit:

Leclrec

 

[Samus]

OK, so I'm now 99% sure the penalties are applied in order of severity, and if anyone has the same, THEN it's on quali order. So the order of the penalties to be applied are:

VER + 5
OCO + 5
PER + 10
BOT + 15
MAG + 15
MSC + 15
SAI - Back
HAM - Back
TSU - Back

Which means this should be the correct procedure. Well, it's my final shot at it anyway.

1​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​
2​	VER​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	RUS​
3​	SAI​	SAI​	SAI​	SAI​	SAI​	SAI​	​	​	​	​	NOR​
4​	PER​	PER​	PER​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	VER​
5​	HAM​	HAM​	HAM​	HAM​	HAM​	HAM​	HAM​	HAM​	​	​	RIC​
6​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	GAS​
7​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	ALO​
8​	RIC​	VER​	VER​	VER​	VER​	VER​	VER​	VER​	VER​	VER​	DEV​
9​	GAS​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	ZHO​
10​	ALO​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	PER​
11​	OCO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	LAT​
12​	BOT​	OCO​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	OCO​
13​	DEV​	BOT​	BOT​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	VET​
14​	ZHO​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	STR​
15​	TSU​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	BOT​
16​	LAT​	TSU​	TSU​	PER​	PER​	PER​	PER​	PER​	PER​	PER​	MAG​
17​	VET​	LAT​	LAT​	TSU​	TSU​	TSU​	TSU​	TSU​	TSU​	​	MSC​
18​	STR​	VET​	OCO​	LAT​	LAT​	LAT​	LAT​	LAT​	LAT​	LAT​	SAI​
19​	MAG​	STR​	VET​	OCO​	OCO​	OCO​	OCO​	OCO​	OCO​	OCO​	HAM​
20​	MSC​	MAG​	STR​	VET​	VET​	VET​	VET​	VET​	VET​	VET​	TSU​
​	​	MSC​	MAG​	STR​	STR​	STR​	STR​	STR​	STR​	STR​	​
​	​	​	MSC​	MAG​	MAG​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	MSC​	MSC​	MSC​	​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​	BOT​	BOT​	BOT​	BOT​	BOT​	BOT​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	MAG​	MAG​	MAG​	MAG​	MAG​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	MSC​	MSC​	MSC​	MSC​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	SAI​	SAI​	SAI​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	HAM​	HAM​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	TSU​	​

1 LEC
2 RUS
3 NOR
4 VER
5 RIC
6 GAS
7 ALO
8 DEV
9 ZHO
10 PER
11 LAT
12 OCO
13 VET
14 STR
15 BOT
16 MAG
17 MSC
18 SAI
19 HAM
20 TSU

 

[NICKname]

OK, so I'm now 99% sure the penalties are applied in order of severity, and if anyone has the same, THEN it's on quali order. So the order of the penalties to be applied are:

VER + 5
OCO + 5
PER + 10
BOT + 15
MAG + 15
MSC + 15
SAI - Back
HAM - Back
TSU - Back

Which means this should be the correct procedure. Well, it's my final shot at it anyway.

1​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​	LEC​
2​	VER​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	RUS​
3​	SAI​	SAI​	SAI​	SAI​	SAI​	SAI​	​	​	​	​	NOR​
4​	PER​	PER​	PER​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	VER​
5​	HAM​	HAM​	HAM​	HAM​	HAM​	HAM​	HAM​	HAM​	​	​	RIC​
6​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	RUS​	GAS​
7​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	NOR​	ALO​
8​	RIC​	VER​	VER​	VER​	VER​	VER​	VER​	VER​	VER​	VER​	DEV​
9​	GAS​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	RIC​	ZHO​
10​	ALO​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	GAS​	PER​
11​	OCO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	ALO​	LAT​
12​	BOT​	OCO​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	OCO​
13​	DEV​	BOT​	BOT​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	VET​
14​	ZHO​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	DEV​	STR​
15​	TSU​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	ZHO​	BOT​
16​	LAT​	TSU​	TSU​	PER​	PER​	PER​	PER​	PER​	PER​	PER​	MAG​
17​	VET​	LAT​	LAT​	TSU​	TSU​	TSU​	TSU​	TSU​	TSU​	​	MSC​
18​	STR​	VET​	OCO​	LAT​	LAT​	LAT​	LAT​	LAT​	LAT​	LAT​	SAI​
19​	MAG​	STR​	VET​	OCO​	OCO​	OCO​	OCO​	OCO​	OCO​	OCO​	HAM​
20​	MSC​	MAG​	STR​	VET​	VET​	VET​	VET​	VET​	VET​	VET​	TSU​
​	​	MSC​	MAG​	STR​	STR​	STR​	STR​	STR​	STR​	STR​	​
​	​	​	MSC​	MAG​	MAG​	​	​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	MSC​	MSC​	MSC​	​	​	​	​	​
​	​	​	​	​	BOT​	BOT​	BOT​	BOT​	BOT​	BOT​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	MAG​	MAG​	MAG​	MAG​	MAG​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	MSC​	MSC​	MSC​	MSC​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	SAI​	SAI​	SAI​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	HAM​	HAM​	​
​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​	TSU​	​

1 LEC
2 RUS
3 NOR
4 VER
5 RIC
6 GAS
7 ALO
8 DEV
9 ZHO
10 PER
11 LAT
12 OCO
13 VET
14 STR
15 BOT
16 MAG
17 MSC
18 SAI
19 HAM
20 TSU

I don't know if they're applied based on severity, but I think your method of leaving the original positions of penalised drivers open until the end is correct. At the 2016 Austrian GP, Rosberg and Vettel both got 5 place grid penalties. Rosberg qualified second, but started sixth, because Vettel qualified fourth (and ended up starting in ninth). So in this situation Verstappen will start 4th since Sainz, Perez and Hamilton are right behind him and also getting penalties.

 

[GingerBredMan]

Hopefully this is the beginning of the end for Latifi

 

[TumeK5]

Hopefully this is the beginning of the end for Latifi

He's been a reserve driver for far too long

 

[Famine]

 

[AshenGraey]

Did not watch the qualifiers live and just now saw the highlights.... I've always believed that Latifi sucked as a driver but this is downright embarrassing. The classy thing for him to do is leave F1 before the team kick him out

 

[Famine]

OK, so I'm now 99% sure the penalties are applied in order of severity, and if anyone has the same, THEN it's on quali order.

According to the Sporting Regulations, not quite:

c) Once the grid has been established in accordance with Article 42.3a), Article
42.3b), and Article 42.3c), grid position penalties will be applied to the drivers in
question.
i) The driver with the higher classification from the qualifying practice session
will have precedence.
d) Once the grid has been established in accordance with Article 42.3a), 42.3b) and
42.3c), grid penalties for any driver required to start the race from the back of the
grid after incurring a penalty under Article 28.3 will be applied.
i) If more than one (1) driver is required to start the race from the back of the
grid they will be arranged in qualifying order.
e) Any driver who incurs a penalty in accordance with Article 28.3 or Article 29 will
take precedence over any driver whose qualifying practice times have been
deleted for any reason.

Grid position penalties are applied in qualifying order, and the grid reestablished. Then "start from the back" penalties for excess engine component/restricted component use are applied in qualifying order.

I've quickly compiled a qualifying order and there's only one transposition (Latifi/Ocon) compared to yours which might be because I was doing it quickly. However the BBC's grid is wildly different (Verstappen in 7th? Perez in 13th?) and F1 hasn't confirmed the grid yet.

 

[Samus]

According to the Sporting Regulations, not quite:

Grid position penalties are applied in qualifying order, and the grid reestablished. Then "start from the back" penalties for excess engine component/restricted component use are applied in qualifying order.

I've quickly compiled a qualifying order and there's only one transposition (Latifi/Ocon) compared to yours which might be because I was doing it quickly. However the BBC's grid is wildly different (Verstappen in 7th? Perez in 13th?) and F1 hasn't confirmed the grid yet.

Some are saying Masi introduced a directive in 2020 that penalties have to be served in full no matter what but I have no idea how that would still be valid now, especially since it wasn't applied in Spa.

I'm just waiting for the official result now, which will be probably be corrected twice and then changed again on Sunday morning because of another penalty.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Official Starting Grid

Italian GP starting grid

1 Leclerc
2 Russell
3 Norris
4 Ricciardo
5 Gasly
6 Alonso
7 Verstappen
8 de Vries
9 Zhou
10 Latifi
11 Vettel
12 Stroll
13 Perez
14 Ocon
15 Bottas
16 Magnussen
17 Schumacher
18 Sainz
19 Hamilton
20 Tsunoda

 

[Samus]

Ok I take back what I said yesterday. I have no idea how it works and it is not simple.

 

[Famine]

Absolutely incomprehensible.

 

[TumeK5]

You know it's confusing when even experts struggle to decipher it.

 

[MagpieRacer]

If ever there was a sequence of races that should force a change into how the penalties work, this and Spa are it. Qualifying was basically pointless at both races.

I agree with what they were saying on the Sky broadcast. Dock the teams constructors points, I've always found it senseless to penalise the driver for what essentially amounts to unreliability. You could argue they may play a part in it with their driving styles or whatever but it damages the spectacle.

 

[PaMu1337]

I expect the grid to be protested by at least one of the teams (probably at least RB) before the race, as this does not seem to be in accordence to the actual rules

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Sky did mention Verstappen being 7th, so there must be something to it. I didn't catch the reasoning.

 

[timekiller001]

Without reading through the rules, I find it pretty easy to figure out.
All penalties are applied first, then the grid is filled up.

 

[PaMu1337]

Without reading through the rules, I find it pretty easy to figure out.
All penalties are applied first, then the grid is filled up.
View attachment 1191880

That's definitely not how it got done previously though

 

[Famine]

That's definitely not how it got done previously though

Not only that, it's not what the rules say. If following the rules results in a different answer than the real one arrived at through:

Without reading through the rules

Then there's something ****y.

It also works if you apply the penalties in the order they were taken - with the exception of the "back of the grid" penalties which, despite a further 10-place penalty for Perez, are immutably in qualification order:

 

[TumeK5]