Forza Motorsport 5 |OT| Where dreams are Realised

[RPM Bibblefish]

Just out of interest, how do you think the P1 handles in real life? None of us will ever likely get behind the wheel of one and I've not looked into how it handles in any kind of depth but going off the top gear show where clarkson test drove it around spa i'd say it's not an easy car to handle when you're flooring it. Granted it was wet but even at low speed it looked very twitchy

As for the tyre model, if you've plated forza 1,2,3 and 4 i don't see how you could think the tyre model in 5 is anything short of excellent. They've taken what they did with Forza 4 and made it better, period.

The only thing this game is lacking is content, which at least seems to be getting addressed albeit slowly.

 

[Crispy]

^Everything I've heard points to the car being fairly easy to drive. Clarkson makes it look crazy for show value.

 

[YakieS1]

^Everything I've heard points to the car being fairly easy to drive. Clarkson makes it look crazy for show value.

One thing that I doubt T10 will ever have is access to the proprietary vehicle attitude management software for these heavily computerized cars like the P1. Or the hybrid management software. They have to make their best guess, so to me it's not a surprise if the real thing is easier to drive than the game version.

 

[King1982]

@Saidur_Ali and Wolfe. Do us all a favour and crawl back to Gtplanet where you belong. You guys dont even play the game.

Just out of interest, how do you think the P1 handles in real life? None of us will ever likely get behind the wheel of one and I've not looked into how it handles in any kind of depth but going off the top gear show where clarkson test drove it around spa i'd say it's not an easy car to handle when you're flooring it. Granted it was wet but even at low speed it looked very twitchy

Well he was driving it on a very wet track in the winter...

 

[Crispy]

One thing that I doubt T10 will ever have is access to the proprietary vehicle attitude management software for these heavily computerized cars like the P1. Or the hybrid management software. They have to make their best guess, so to me it's not a surprise if the real thing is easier to drive than the game version.

Pretty much. So many of these cars are computerized that T10 (Or any other developer) has to make a generic profile. There's almost no possible way to have each car handle the specific way unless you had a small car count like Assetto Corsa.

 

[Brend]

@Saidur_Ali and Wolfe. Do us all a favour and crawl back to Gtplanet where you belong. You guys dont even play the game.

I don't play the game but I like hearing what you guys say about it, does that mean I'm not entitled to be here either?

There's plenty of people who visit forums and threads who don't play the games.

And if it's about opinion sharing on a game not really played, well welcome to the internet. It's not like the GT6 section is exempt from this behavior either. Everyone can form an opinion based on a multi-tude of factors now.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I don't play the game but I like hearing what you guys say about it, does that mean I'm not entitled to be here either?

There's plenty of people who visit forums and threads who don't play the games.

And if it's about opinion sharing on a game not really played, well welcome to the internet. It's not like the GT6 section is exempt from this behavior either. Everyone can form an opinion based on a multi-tude of factors now.

Fanboys will be fanboys. Keep it classy.

 

[Terronium-12]

@Saidur_Ali and Wolfe. Do us all a favour and crawl back to Gtplanet where you belong. You guys dont even play the game.

Do me a favor and don't tell people where they can and cannot post.

I promise you won't be told again.

 

[Tornado]

Now even Wolfe, who (in)famously left the GT series in pursuit of the competitors more inspired offerings even before GT4 came out, is one of the "them"?



It's simply delightful how far off the deep end this entire subforum has gone since last year. Reminds me of the months immediately following GT5's release.

 

[Wolfe]

Like @Classic, I'm keeping tabs on this game. I have all of the Forza titles for 360 (to underscore @Tornado's point I don't have GT5, GT6, or even a PS3), and I await the opportunity to try FM5 and eventually see how Horizon 2 turns out. If @Saidur_Ali wants to discuss the tire model, I want to know what he thinks without others attacking him for having anything less than positive to say.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Regarding Calspan from Dan at Turn 10:

“I was asking Pirelli, ‘These tyre curves you have, this data… how are you isolating camber from wear from pressure and so on?’” he says. “Pirelli’s take was, ‘We don’t and [you can’t]’. So we found a new partner for Forza 5: Calspan. Calspan is not a name that anybody knows, unless you’re an engineer. The testing that Pirelli was doing on their tyres is called Calspan testing; that’s what all the tyre manufacturers use. [Calspan’s] take was different to Pirelli. It said, ‘We’ll need palettes of tyres,’ so we bought palettes of tyres and sent them to Calspan and [it] did two weeks of testing – morning, noon and night – isolating these variables. We now know things about Pirelli tyres that Pirelli doesn’t know about Pirelli tyres. We know things about Toyo and Yokohama that are going to help write the textbooks in two or three years.”

http://www.edge-online.com/features...s-are-impossible-on-last-generation-hardware/

Calspan, founded in 1943 by the Curtiss-Wright Airplane Division, does testing for aerospace and transportation research. If the Department of Defense has a physics problem with missile testing, they go to Calspan. If the Department of Transportation wants to do some crash testing, they also go to Calspan. If you need a 1,000-mph wind tunnel for no particular reason, you go to Calspan. Yet, Calspan didn't understand how tires truly performed either. So they're continuing to help "Forza" with tire testing and simulation: getting into the cutting edge of tire data -- not just for a mere video game, but for the world's benefit.



"We want to get people interested in cars, and simulation does that," said Greenawalt. "But beyond that, I'm just dorky like that. I like physics. I want to push boundaries."



Read more: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130613/carnews/130619931#ixzz2vZVEHAHz
Follow us: @AutoweekUSA on Twitter | AutoweekUSA on Facebook

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130613/CARNEWS/130619931

PUTTING IT DOWN The Xbox One's eight-core CPU allowed Microsoft to develop what might be the most sophisticated tire simulation ever attempted in gaming. Pallets of tires were sent to Calspan, an automotive-industry research facility in Buffalo, New York, where researchers collected data on how heat, friction, and pressure affect rubber performance and wear at track speeds. "Tires are incredibly complex," says Dan Greenawalt, creative director for Turn 10 Studios, the company behind Forza. "We need to simulate every little thing that goes on, from the pressure in the atmosphere to the humidity on the track."

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/car-culture/behind-the-screen-virtualosity-65-4-roa1113

 

[HAL20XX]

Isn't the P1 a car meant to be driven with all or most of the nanny devices enabled? Also, I thought this quote from Jeremy Clarkson was very telling...

The P1 is a very easy car to drive, but a very hard car to drive to the limit. You have to learn it, figure it out. It is not point and pray, more delicate than that.

Games like Forza and GT don't have the liberty of having the complex control systems such as the P1, or even, for example, Cadillac's Magnetic Ride Control.

 

[FordGTGuy]

I don't know about the P1 but the MP4-12C has been heavily criticized for being too easy to drive to the point where the car "drives itself". I would expect the P1 to be very similar with it utilizing even better solutions to keep traction and stability under control.

Regarding car movement in replays, it looks similar to how it is at full framerate. I don't see other games I play looking so strange in gameplay or replays, or if I record real cars racing at 30FPS, it does not look strange to me.

As someone who records on monitors side by side the difference between 30 and 60 is nuts.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Just out of interest, how do you think the P1 handles in real life? None of us will ever likely get behind the wheel of one and I've not looked into how it handles in any kind of depth but going off the top gear show where clarkson test drove it around spa i'd say it's not an easy car to handle when you're flooring it. Granted it was wet but even at low speed it looked very twitchy

As for the tyre model, if you've plated forza 1,2,3 and 4 i don't see how you could think the tyre model in 5 is anything short of excellent. They've taken what they did with Forza 4 and made it better, period.

The only thing this game is lacking is content, which at least seems to be getting addressed albeit slowly.

This is a good video to watch regarding handling and he even takes off traction control:

@Saidur_Ali and Wolfe. Do us all a favour and crawl back to Gtplanet where you belong. You guys dont even play the game.

Only started playing the game and also this is GTPlanet .

Now even Wolfe, who (in)famously left the GT series in pursuit of the competitors more inspired offerings even before GT4 came out, is one of the "them"?



It's simply delightful how far off the deep end this entire subforum has gone since last year. Reminds me of the months immediately following GT5's release.

So are you counting me as one of the "them", considering I probably have played a lot more variety of racing games than most on here I presume?

Seems generally quite on topic to me.

As someone who records on monitors side by side the difference between 30 and 60 is nuts.

So do you notice it only in Forza 5 then this big difference regarding car movement?


Back to my recent game experiences, found out how to view replays and noticed on top times, ones that use clutch button, it seems strange decision by Turn 10 that method of shifting is rewarded and auto clutch is handicapped. It makes for some strange sounding replays at the top with the engine sounding IIRC bouncing of the rev limiter on any upshifts. Seems even more ridiculous this is fastest way with an F1 car in the game.

Still haven't improved much since first day I played game, moved to doing rivals on a shorter track, more chance of getting a lucky lap. Still can't get a decent lap together though but haven't spent much time on it yet, feels frustrating not having a wheel and having this steering system that feels like I need to get lucky with it to get it to do what I want it to do when I want to turn into corner.

Here is a video of one lap I did, proof that I got game as well:

 

[HAL20XX]

^^^^ Snap the game DVR to the side of your screen, tell it to start recording, and you'll get up to 5 minutes of data capture. Much easier than sitting their with your phone recording the whole thing!

 

[espeed623]

@Saidur_Ali and @Wolfe. Do us all a favour and crawl back to Gtplanet where you belong...

Look at your address bar. Now look at your post. Back to your address bar. Now back to your post!
Sadly, ForzaPlanet is not its own site anymore. But you can still type in ForzaPlanet.net to quickly get to the Forza sub-forum of GTPlanet.

I'm on a horse.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

^^^^ Snap the game DVR to the side of your screen, tell it to start recording, and you'll get up to 5 minutes of data capture. Much easier than sitting their with your phone recording the whole thing!

Hopefully they allow local recording for free in an update but only way now requires Xbox Live Gold.

I'm amazed how few replays it lets you save in game, they need to really up that limit.

 

[Tornado]

So are you counting me as one of the "them", considering I probably have played a lot more variety of racing games than most on here I presume?

Seems generally quite on topic to me.

I actually would, but that wasn't even near being the point of that post so it's rather odd that that was the only thing you gleamed from it.

 

[HAL20XX]

Hopefully they allow local recording for free in an update but only way now requires Xbox Live Gold.

I'm amazed how few replays it lets you save in game, they need to really up that limit.

Ah, I didn't even think of needing XBL for that. Bummer...

 

[RPM Bibblefish]

This is a good video to watch regarding handling and he even takes off traction control:



Nice video, thanks for sharing but i still don't see how you can come to this conclusion:

'When I drive something like the P1 which is a cover car for the game, it does not seem to drive anything like how one would expect the real thing to drive.'

How could you possibly know unless you've driven one, that's like saying the red bull X2011 prototype from GT5 handles exactly like it would do in real life.

Unless it turns left when you ask it to turn right or goes backwards when you ask it to go forwards you cannot possibly claim it handles nothing like it should do in real life.

In the game i agree it's a twitchy bugger but that's because you're not exactly worried about crashing the thing and going up in a ball of flames, drive it around a corner off full throttle and it's entirely manageable.

 

[HAL20XX]

So I'm weak and I couldn't resist getting the steering wheel. Ended up costing me $255 after the 15% discount, a $50 gift card, and $55 in reward zone points (plus that $2.99 game haha). I'm expecting my first born to arrive any day now so I probably won't be able to use it until FM6.

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

@hal, where is it available for the 15% discount - Best Buy I presume? Which game at $2.99 qualifies? I may take the leap myself!

 

[HAL20XX]

@hal, where is it available for the 15% discount - Best Buy I presume? Which game at $2.99 qualifies? I may take the leap myself!

Yep, Best Buy. Start here: Thrustmaster TX and then click the 15% off link under "Special Offers". You'll get a pop up that gives you details on the deal. I just selected Xbox 360 and sorted the list from low - high price and selected the cheapest game there (Power Gig: Rise of the SixString). Go back to the wheel, add it to your cart, and then view your cart. It'll show the wheel price as $339.

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

Yep, Best Buy. Start here: Thrustmaster TX and then click the 15% off link under "Special Offers". You'll get a pop up that gives you details on the deal. I just selected Xbox 360 and sorted the list from low - high price and selected the cheapest game there (Power Gig: Rise of the SixString). Go back to the wheel, add it to your cart, and then view your cart. It'll show the wheel price as $339.

Thanks, my TX should be here Tuesday

 

[Speedster911]

Regarding Calspan from Dan at Turn 10:



http://www.edge-online.com/features...s-are-impossible-on-last-generation-hardware/



http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130613/CARNEWS/130619931



http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/car-culture/behind-the-screen-virtualosity-65-4-roa1113

Made for a great read, thanks for posting!

Really hoping I can get my hands on FM5 sometime this year or next.

 

[HAL20XX]

Thanks, my TX should be here Tuesday

Mine too! To make it even better, I finally wrapped up my taxes and TurboTax will let you put some of your return on an Amazon gift card. Amazon will give you an extra 10% on whatever you put on the card. So, after the wife's permission, I'll be getting this thing:

It will be sitting next to the walker I got my daughter (hey, just because she's a girl doesn't mean she's not going to like racing!):

 

[Speedster911]

^^ Good stuff. That looks like a great wheel+chair+pedals combo.

Why no clutch on such a great peripheral though? You think devs pull off that kind of crap on purpose?!

 

[HAL20XX]

^^ Good stuff. That looks like a great wheel+chair+pedals combo.

Why no clutch on such a great peripheral though? You think devs pull off that kind of crap on purpose?!

I'm thinking they did it partially because the 458 itself doesn't have one - not a good reason, but I get it. The other reason being it's a modular system and you can upgrade the wheel, pedals (w/clutch) and add a gated shifter. It would have been nice to be able to buy just the base itself and then purchase the wheel and pedals separately.

On a side note, I'm working from home today and I keep looking out the window every 5 minutes waiting for the UPS truck

 

[Speedster911]

Hey I can imagine the feeling!

Enjoy your wheel. Are you going for the clutch and gated shifter upgrade? If I were you I'D DO IT! *Jason Mewes voice*

 

[HAL20XX]

Yeah, I'll definitely be picking up the shifter and clutch (though there's not much available yet, except T500RS pedals which aren't sold separately).

I just put in my first lap on the wheel and my initial thought is, "Wow, I'm going to have to completely retrain myself." It's completely different than a controller and a much bigger difference that what I saw going from the DS3 controller to the DFGT in Gran Turismo. I have a feeling that's due to a combination of the TX being a much better wheel and Forza having a much more complicated tire system than GT.

The eye-opening thing I noticed right off the bat is the differing levels of traction for different types of pavement. I took my Hyundai Genesis Coupe out on Prague and I was absolutely floored with just how much more attention I had to give, and particularly when it came to the different pavement types. There are some spots where grip is just low, but it's completely masked by the controller. If you're not careful, you will get sideways - which I did way too many times. The other beauty is now I can truly feel the loss of grip on these hills. Something not felt in a controller. Both of these make me feel confident that anyone saying there's a lack of grip in FM5 is saying so because yes, there is a lack of grip - in some areas, for a completely accurate reason.

TL;DR - Having a wheel completely uncovers the complexities of the tire model and physics model that you simply cannot detect on the controller.