GT producer - Damage still the same.

[JDMKING13]

Plenty of other racing title have a perfectly functional damage model (both on and off line) and it both encourages cleaner racing (GT5 on-line is still the most ram filled experience of almost any game I've played) and provides a more realistic environment in which to race.

Its an integral part of racing and as such PD should be modelling it as best they can.

Can't say the same again I just don't hop in random rooms unless its shuffle race this can be said by any game in my opinion.

 

[emula]

I hope the damage are restored as in the best buy demo, where they were much more fast to appear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17tehIM9_mo

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

emula when was the last time you tried?Someone posted earlier that the wrc cars takes long to damage.But last night I was going around k-trail and I crashed twice at low speeds and my hood was already bending up,front bumper hanging.I slid into a wall.. at a low speed and my back bumper was hanging off.Took no time at all and the damage looked just like that pic.

 

[Yauma9]

I don't care about graphical damage as long as there's improvements to physical damage.

Dmarc, I like your signature.

 

[HAL20XX]

If you're going to use, "The Real Driving Simulator" as a defense against damage, let's take it a couple steps further.

- Improve the AI. Nope, it's a driving simulator, not a racing simulator.
- Make all cars premium. Nope, it's a driving simulator, not a design program.
- Make the interface more user friendly. Nope, it's a driving simulator, not a "game".
- Add more cars on track. Nope, it's a driving simulator, still not a racing simulator.

If you're going to use this defense, then just admit that the game is an over-glorified hot-lap simulator.

 

[LVracerGT]

So you want a scripted damage model, which not only looks bad half the time, it also isn't realistic in any way. Also, you need to take into account that cars in GT6 will have a wide array of custom parts availible.

And since PCars isn't out yet, it's a bit early to say that they will succed in every department. I too think the game will be great, but In the back of my head, I still remember that the folks making it, are the same folks who made the Shift games... Not a great legacy. Also, they seem to lack the funding to get a proper grid of cars together. Which is a massive shame.

Every damage model is scripted. You saying it would look bad is an assumption. If PD actually put effort into creating one, I doubt it would look bad.

People also seem to forget the guys making project CARS are the guys that made GTR2. When they made shift they were under the direction of EA. That's why they went on their own to make another full on sim.

 

[Conquerer]

And what about other people hitting you? Or using your car as a portable crash barrier when braking?

Should they not face any consequences for this?

Now you may just use GT as a hot lap tool, but plenty of people use it to race and crashes happen during races.

You also seem to be forgetting that PD themselves are the ones who trumpeted the damage in GT5, as such it would be nice to see them deliver on it.

This.

All these people saying they don't play GT to crash... really? Is it seriously necessary to say stupid and redundant things like this? Do professional race drivers compete in professional racing events to crash their cars?

But does it happen? Yes. Crash damage is as much a part of racing as any another other aspect. Those of you who think otherwise, keep drinking that kool-aid and keep your "I'm so good I don't crash" comments to yourself, because all this is going straight over your head.

 

[Samus]

I will continue to do so as well due to how many here have yet to come grips with how business as a whole works.

All I'm saying is there are plenty of legitimate issues with the series and it seems you don't care if PD fix or upgrade them, it doesn't matter, 10 million buy the game and that's the bottom line. Yes it is the bottom line in a sense but that doesn't mean PD can't make the improvements and make the game even better.

As I said GTA IV sold over 20 million copies, you can be pretty sure GTA V could have been more of the same and sold just as well. But R* didn't do that, they listened to the issues coming from the minority and they made changes/improvements.

Your philosophy whenever a legitimate problem is brought up, such as damage right here, is that it doesn't need fixing, you're content with it and so are (supposedly, without you asking them) the 10 million people that bought GT5. PD don't need to fix it then.

10.5 million people have bought GT5, so PDI has to believe that only a minority will even care about this.

It shouldn't matter how many would care about it, I'm sure all 10.5 million would still enjoy the game more if it were better so PD should be striving to improve it, along with all the other areas that people suggest needs work, like standards. We can imagine all 10.5 million are also happy with those, does that mean PD should just leave them alone then? No, they should still try to replace them with premiums because everyone will like that even more and the game is better, even if not one single extra person buys it.

 

[maxpontiac]

It may be, or might have been. Strong GT5 sales don't indicate a strong franchise. Pre GT5 reputation may have had a lot to do with GT5 sales, and the impact of GT5 on the series might not show itself until much later.

I disagree with you for a couple of reasons, since we do not have access to the financial statements of PDI, the only fact we have to go off is the amount of sales as an indicator. Remember, our opinions of where this game title is doesn't matter when speaking of a franchises strength unless it is for the individual.

Even with GT5 being the lowest critically rated title of the series, it still managed to shift several millions of units after the launch blitz.

Possibly. The average player will pick up the game and play it for a while, or occasionally, and that's about it. The hardcore players are more likely to generate content about and in the game. Who will generate music videos, race series replays, videos and articles about physics or awesome game moments, etc. The hardcore fan might be exponentially more valuable than the average person in promoting the series. They can serve as free advertising or content generators. For example if GT6 has a livery editor, who is going to make the awesome designs for people who don't have the time/skill/drive to make their own? Probably a bunch of livery editor fanatics. The same can go for tuning.

Hey, believe me, I am all for things like livery editors. Not because I use it, but others will.

My main point is, and I keep saying it, it is impossible to understand the complete feelings toward GT5 due to how forums represent such a low amount of the user base. As far as casuals picking the game up, playing it and moving on, Sony and PDI will consider that mission accomplished being how a consumer spent 60 dollars on the game.

That would assume they're mutually exclusive. After all, 10 of 10 is better than 9 of 10. If you can reach it, it makes sense to go for it.

Yes, and experience has taught me and others around the world that "it's impossible to please everyone". I know based on two decades of experience (and doing my homework) that I need to come up with designs that have the widest appeal possible all the while staying within budgets and time constraints.

In case of GT selling 500'000-600'000 units less is smart? Although the 5% in general is a ludicrous assumption.

It's a tradeoff. Look at this way, Gran Turismo over the past 15 years has sold 9-10 million copies per every major edition they have released. Have they included everything under the sun? No. Have they continued to sell their product at levels no comes close too? Yes.

Not really. You're making the argument that the silent majority doesn't care about such things, be they a highly detailed damage engine or Standard cars or what have you; so they aren't much of a concern to fix when the people who care enough to voice opinions about it are so small in percentage as to be insignificant. It directly follows that the sentiment applies to innovation in general if/when the same majority aren't concerned with it except for companies that place innovation on a pedestal anyway.

Spagetti69 suggested that PDI has no pride. Anyone who has followed PDI and Kaz knows this not to be accurate. PDI is a business, and tradeoffs and compromises have to made daily in order to stay a profitable venture.

As I said before in an earlier post, PDI has obviously seen that their product sells quite well, so they have to believe that what they are doing is still acceptable to the fans. Right or wrong, it's going to stay that way until a GT title fails to reach the GT sales standards.

Innovation is fine and all, but in a stressed global economy, sometimes innovation takes a back seat to reality. Look around friend, economies all over the world are in serious trouble and we all know of Sony's recent financial woes. I could bore you with a massive change my company recently had to make in order to keep costs down and budgets where they need to be, but I won't.

No, I never said the silent majority doesn't care, I simply have argued that the loud majority doesn't represent all of us.

So GT thinks it's OK to have sensible damage and penalty in arcade mode but not the main mode of the game?

By all means, show me where any representative from PDI has stated this. I am pretty sure that Kaz would love to see damage (among other things) reach the full potential. The system itself, time, entities, and other resources may be standing in the way.

 

[TokoTurismo]

As I said before in an earlier post, PDI has obviously seen that their product sells quite well, so they have to believe that what they are doing is still acceptable to the fans. Right or wrong, it's going to stay that way until a GT title fails to reach the GT sales standards.

This reminds me of Mario, Halo and of course, COD. I hope PD never changes, but continue to improve in certain areas, but they shouldn't change of what they're good at IMO. 👍

 

[Tenacious D]

Wow... is it heated in here, or is it just me.

Every damage model is scripted. You saying it would look bad is an assumption. If PD actually put effort into creating one, I doubt it would look bad.

There is one big caveat to this though. Compared to other racing devs, Polyphony are newbs when it comes to damage modeling. There was a minor mechanical damage implementation in GT2, but they dropped all damage for two games. The one they originally had for GT5 was cut back sharply because it caused a lot of pretty weird looking deformations to the car body, rather like what's in Live For Speed or the minor damage in Toca. Even the mechanical damage is pretty basic.

While I would love to see simulation level damage in GT6, it sounds like PD just isn't ready for it yet, and the PS3 has been tasked with improving virtually everything without sacrificing anything - except damage, and what they have improved isn't "processor cheap." Something like what Forza 4 has would be incredible. In particular, the graphics are just amazing even though scripted. But I think it's going to require PS4 to give us everything we want, like an amazing damage implementation. We might have to be patient on that because an amazing damage build isn't easy, especially for a team that hasn't been refining it over the course of a series.

 

[Tornado]

You mean the damage in the Best Buy demo?

 

[Spagetti69]

Spagetti69 suggested that PDI has no pride.

None of us know the inner workings of the man but I honestly believe that Kaz isn't that proud of GT5. Ask him further down the line and he may even admit it was his lowest point. My own opinion here obviously.

Factor in release deadlines and portable spin offs and what ever else Sony throw at PD and its easy to get disillusioned with your vision. Wether its his own lofty goals being unobtainable or because of restrictions,its easy to fall into the "tick the box" mentality.

Keep the boss happy,keep shareholders happy, appease most fans check. Job done go home and forget about GT. The guy is probably fed up of his own success and would love to make a platformer lol.

It's easy to lose pride in a project spanning 15years.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Wow... is it heated in here, or is it just me.


There is one big caveat to this though. Compared to other racing devs, Polyphony are newbs when it comes to damage modeling. There was a minor mechanical damage implementation in GT2, but they dropped all damage for two games. The one they originally had for GT5 was cut back sharply because it caused a lot of pretty weird looking deformations to the car body, rather like what's in Live For Speed or the minor damage in Toca. Even the mechanical damage is pretty basic.

While I would love to see simulation level damage in GT6, it sounds like PD just isn't ready for it yet, and the PS3 has been tasked with improving virtually everything without sacrificing anything - except damage, and what they have improved isn't "processor cheap." Something like what Forza 4 has would be incredible. In particular, the graphics are just amazing even though scripted. But I think it's going to require PS4 to give us everything we want, like an amazing damage implementation. We might have to be patient on that because an amazing damage build isn't easy, especially for a team that hasn't been refining it over the course of a series.

Yes, excatly that. Others need to stop pushing PD to hard just because other racing games have D.A.M.A.G.E. It is PD's attempt at making a damage modelling of course and time will soon come for better damage on the PS4, so take it easy especially on the PS3!

 

[LVracerGT]

QUOTE="TokoTurismo"]

This reminds me of Mario, Halo and of course, COD. I hope PD never changes, but continue to improve in certain areas, but they shouldn't change of what they're good at IMO. 👍[/QUOTE]

Adding damage wouldn't be "changing" it would be evolving. Much in the same way COD evolved when they introduced kill streaks. It's an evolution to the series that adds to the experience.

Wow... is it heated in here, or is it just me.

There is one big caveat to this though. Compared to other racing devs, Polyphony are newbs when it comes to damage modeling. There was a minor mechanical damage implementation in GT2, but they dropped all damage for two games. The one they originally had for GT5 was cut back sharply because it caused a lot of pretty weird looking deformations to the car body, rather like what's in Live For Speed or the minor damage in Toca. Even the mechanical damage is pretty basic.

While I would love to see simulation level damage in GT6, it sounds like PD just isn't ready for it yet, and the PS3 has been tasked with improving virtually everything without sacrificing anything - except damage, and what they have improved isn't "processor cheap." Something like what Forza 4 has would be incredible. In particular, the graphics are just amazing even though scripted. But I think it's going to require PS4 to give us everything we want, like an amazing damage implementation. We might have to be patient on that because an amazing damage build isn't easy, especially for a team that hasn't been refining it over the course of a series.

While I see your point, I still have to stick with PD making poor choices in how they decided to build their game. They could have taken out the unnecessary content and put effort into building a damage model. I can't accept the excuse that PD's developers are "noobs" when they're supposed to be some of the best in the world. Especially with the budget and resources they have.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Adding damage wouldn't be "changing" it would be evolving. Much in the same way COD evolved when they introduced kill streaks. It's an evolution to the series that adds to the experience.

Well yeah excatly. I was just saying PD shouldn't change what they're good at when making GT, but have improvements and evolve in certain areas.

 

[Spagetti69]

I'm going to throw out some praise here for PD.
The Track editor and GPS project they are working on is innovative. Wether its up to scratch or not they do deserve credit for even attempting a daunting challenge. So props to them for that.

Lets works on the basics still tho Kaz please.
Get the foundations laid ,then experiment.

 

[amar212]

None of us know the inner workings of the man but I honestly believe that Kaz isn't that proud of GT5. Ask him further down the line and he may even admit it was his lowest point. My own opinion here obviously.

Well, not so far from truth. He even mentioned something down those lines at some point. He didn't use same words, but it was obvious he wasn't happy with the state GT5 was forced to release.

It was not his decision though and it came down to what it was. For one time in their history, PD had to obey Sony's deadlines. It ended as it ended. Thankfully, Sony learned what happens when they push Polyphony just because they are not ready to accept how great projects needs great time to be finished.

 

[Spagetti69]

Well, not so far from truth. He even mentioned something down those lines at some point. He didn't use same words, but it was obvious he wasn't happy with the state GT5 was forced to release.

It was not his decision though and it came down to what it was. For one time in their history, PD had to obey Sony's deadlines. It ended as it ended. Thankfully, Sony learned what happens when they push Polyphony just because they are not ready to accept how great projects needs great time to be finished.

Thanks for the insight Amar.

Maybe when he's old and grey and someone asks him his greatest achievement he might respond with putting Lucus, Jann etc onto the podium. No mean feat in itself.

A Sony spokesperson mentioned about a lot of upcoming DLC. I remember an interview with Kaz where he stated his dislike for such a buisiness model. I seem to remember him not being to happy having to produce GT for PSP. All these little things chip away at a fella and leave them disheartened.

The poor sod who has to knock the door and ask for a Vita version better run lol.

I feel a bit sorry for the guy. He's obviously very privileged but today's buisiness model does seem to gel with his character.

 

[occasionalracer]

Maybe when he's old and grey and someone asks him his greatest achievement he might respond with putting Lucus, Jann etc onto the podium. No mean feat in itself.

So the franchise he started and worked on for 15 years means nothing. All the good times during building the games with his team, all the business partnerships, all the things he's collected from advertising/ release of all the games, the pride of having 150 staff that are working for him currently... ect.... I think if he looked at his own pride he wouldn't see GT Academy as his greatest achievement. Much rather that he's achieved to be the most well known racing game in the world, and it looks like GT is only headed towards much greater acknowledgement.

I feel a bit sorry for the guy. He's obviously very privileged but today's buisiness model does seem to gel with his character.

He'll be fine, currently he's having fun weekend at the 24h Nürburgring.

 

[Spagetti69]

So the franchise he started and worked on for 15 years means nothing. All the good times during building the games with his team, all the business partnerships, all the things he's collected from advertising/ release of all the games, the pride of having 150 staff that are working for him currently... ect.... I think if he looked at his own pride he wouldn't see GT Academy as his greatest achievement. Much rather that he's achieved to be the most well known racing game in the world, and it looks like GT is only headed towards much greater acknowledgement.

You think seeing one of his protege's lifting an F1 trophy at Suzuka wouldn't be up there?
Like I said "Maybe". I don't know the inner workings of the man or what he is yet to achieve.
I was just rambling I suppose.

Back to damage..........

 

[occasionalracer]

You think seeing one of his protege's lifting an F1 trophy at Suzuka wouldn't be up there?
Like I said "Maybe". I don't know the inner workings of the man or what he is yet to achieve.
I was just rambling I suppose.

Back to damage..........

Ya I suppose.... I was just rambling too I guess, but can't stand how ridicules some of the posts in this thread are towards Kazanori just because damage will remain the same. Yes, it'd be great to see it, but only if done right... this is where it takes time (and processing power).

 

[Johnnypenso]

I have to admit I'm one of these guys that doent give a hoot about damage modelling. Would it be great to have? Sure, be a neat thing to watch once or twice. Would I want resources taken away from some other part of the game to do this? No. I can think of many other modelling projects I'd much rather be done before this. But that's just me.

 

[Earth]

Well, not so far from truth. He even mentioned something down those lines at some point. He didn't use same words, but it was obvious he wasn't happy with the state GT5 was forced to release.

It was not his decision though and it came down to what it was. For one time in their history, PD had to obey Sony's deadlines. It ended as it ended. Thankfully, Sony learned what happens when they push Polyphony just because they are not ready to accept how great projects needs great time to be finished.

 

[Nattefrost]

Well, not so far from truth. He even mentioned something down those lines at some point. He didn't use same words, but it was obvious he wasn't happy with the state GT5 was forced to release.

It was not his decision though and it came down to what it was. For one time in their history, PD had to obey Sony's deadlines. It ended as it ended. Thankfully, Sony learned what happens when they push Polyphony just because they are not ready to accept how great projects needs great time to be finished.

I don't think that's entirely fair. Great projects may need time but there's a point where you have to say "enough is enough". The development time had gotten way out of hand already. How much more time did Kaz want? A year? Two more years? Three? Such a long development cycle without a product to sell is a massive financial headache. The problem wasn't Sony's deadline, it was PD and their unrealistic ambitions and poor planning.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

Your argument makes zero sense, damage being on would only discourage people crashing into you. Because GT5 never did it well is irrelevant, GT6 should that's the point.

Ai is bad so don't need damage? The answer is to improve AI and A-spec. 2 wrongs do not make a right.

Discourage people in crashing me?

You seem to miss my point.

If you race with Pugs (= personally unknown group) at the Ring, people will hit you accidently because its such a hard and tight track. Especially if you race cars with different traits (a heavy/high hp Rwd car vs mid engined supercars). I used the C63 quite often and most of the time started as first, but other players, using cars as the 458, are much faster then me at the twisty sections and most people seem to think that overtaking is possible on every single corner on a race track. So crashes happen alot... It makes no fun driving back the whole ring into the pits when your front right wheel is badly damaged.

Most casuals in this game just don`t know how to race. Im not talking about their pace, but the way they behave in the race (Chopping other cars, making impossible overtakes which forces the defending car to either go wide or crash etc). If you race with friends or take part in league races, mechanical dmg is fine of course.
(Can I ask you how many online races with full mechanical damage you did in GT5?)

About offline, if the AI gets improved (which I doubt), no problem with mechanical damage. If it stays the same? Hell no. That FGT seasonal last week was insane. The AI drivers should get black flagged for all that stuff they do.

 

[dr_slump]

I don't think that's entirely fair. Great projects may need time but there's a point where you have to say "enough is enough". The development time had gotten way out of hand already. How much more time did Kaz want? A year? Two more years? Three? Such a long development cycle without a product to sell is a massive financial headache.

Agree, GT5 had to be published.

Sigh, again this arguemnt makes zero sense and has beenr efuted to be pointless, see scaff's post sums it up:

How can you refute someones personal opinion and likings?
That makes zero sense spleenie.

(Can I ask you how many online races with full mechanical damage you did in GT5?)

I could bet he almost never does.

 

[TokoTurismo]

How can you refute someones personal opinion and likings?
That makes zero sense spleenie.

Excatly. So he said I make zero sense... He's the one that makes zero sense, I was also sharing my personal opinion and that can't shared huh?

Alright than this is my other personal opinion. I say damage should be the last thing to even worry about. Kaz and PD has far more important stuff to worry about than damage, that should be the last priority.

 

[dr_slump]

Oh god what happened to your avatar...

 

[TokoTurismo]

Oh god what happened to your avatar...

Who? Mines. 0.0

Wanted to change it because I felt embarrassed and disappointed. Only when this place gets back to normal, that's when I bring in better avatars, especially when I'm happy (which I'm not at the moment sadly)...