GTRA | RSeat WSGTC S3 | Round 4 | Nürburgring GP/F | German GT

  • Thread starter Litchi
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Just to clarify... I do not feel it is Litchi's, CSL's, iForce's, Twisted's, William's, or any other staff members fault that some people don't feel the need to race with any sportsmanship. Unfortunately this series has turned into a lot of work for these poor guys because there are certain people that think running people off course, cheating the specs, and cutting the course is ok.
I would think it embarassing for these people and their behavior. But I guess its just an internet alias so it doesn't matter to them. Complaining that other cheaters didn't get punished as much is clearly a sign to the problem. The rules are not a gray area. If intentionally broken, DQ and possibly further action should always be expected.
It's unfortunate we can't all act gentlemanly and race with pride. The rules keep having to get more strict like we are running a daycare service. The intent of the rules are so obvious, yet certain people feel the need to try and bend or flat out cheat them.
I said I didn't think the penalties had been applied for GT500 PAL at Nurb, because I truly think they hadn't. I was pleeing that the penalties when finalized should be harsh to halt these shenanigans.
As for certain things.. Tony running wide on his qualifying at Industry on turn 12. Honestly, I was never aware in any series or WRS event that this wasn't allowed. It was on the first page, but I didn't notice it until his penalty. I didn't break that rule simply because I don't think it is faster to run that wide. In a normal situation I think we could have given Tony the benefit of the doubt there. After racing with him in many series, I know he is clean and wouldn't cheat the rules on purpose. But unfortunately with multiple people purposely cheating the rules, he had to be penalized for conformity.
In summation, yes the rules are getting a bit out of control.. but this is because of those that are driving in an unsportsmanlike manner, not because the admins enjoy adding rules. I have to give Litchi and many of the others a huge thumbs up for their efforts and perseverance. Sometimes no matter your efforts, things go a bit astray.
I also want to clear up that I really enjoy racing with almost all of you. I saw a huge display of sportsmanship from both Stretchy and FAK at the Indy race. Unfortunately I hit the tires at T1 at Indy, stopping my car right in front of FAK. This heavily damaged FAK, and basically ruined his main race. Did he bitch and moan, did he rage quit, did he hit me back later in the race, did he cut corners to catch back up to the field? No to all of these things. What he did do, is finish the race, heard me apologize, and said he understood, and no hard feelings. In fact he even sent me a pm later telling me not to feel bad about it. 👍 to your class, mate.
With Stretchy, he and I were having a tight, clean battle on the final lap at Indy. He ran a little wide on exit of a turn and we made slight impact which knocked me a bit wide. Not that big of a deal in close fair racing.. but he slowed to let me by as he felt that was the fair thing to do. Could he have kept going.. sure. Would he of been penalized, I can't imagine as it was just a racing incident and clearly not on purpose. But it is a great show of sportsmanship.
Thanks FAK and Stretchy for your acts, and I will always want to run with you guys again. There are a lot of people here that are great, clean, fair drivers.. 👍 to you (you know who you are. For others of you, clean up your act. Please stop, wasting the admins time with needing to babysit. You will get far more respect from the others here for racing with sportsmanship, than winning a race by bumping, cutting, cheating specs, etc.
 
The problem here Paginas is that I did report it but nothing was done about it. I put the incident as black and white as I could and it was still ignored.

Also could be D/Q'd for breaking a rule which is none existent.

The complaint handling does indeed leave something to be desired, which we are discussing right now how to do better.

But I am looking at the complaints now, I see you have filed exactly two reports earlier. One was ByGGy's lag problems in one race, he exited and that was punishment enough in itself. The other was a race incident. So what are you really talking about?

I think this is just smokescreen BS to divert attention away from your own cheating attempts. Why don't you tell us exactly what you were doing in the garage between the races?
 
Fuji was not a racing incident at all..., the damage caused to my car was clear cut.
Byggy carried on in the race and didn't leave...
I went in the garage to check PP only. I offered twist the opportunity to check my car after the race was completed but he said it wasn't necessary. There was no rule saying I couldn't do that as it isn't classified as settings. I said on the chat I was only checking the PP so everyone could see it, not my fault you turned a blind eye on it.

I hardly cause this BS, I call this being 100% honest.
 
To be fair it wasn't my call as I wasn't racing. My ps3 was on to catch the replay and I noticed the garage symbol appear, so I said I had seen it, I know you were only in the garage for a few seconds, but surely you can see why it shouldn't be allowed. As it doesn't say it in the rules, there will be no penalty, I don't think you cheated.
 
Of course I wouldn't cheat, if I had changed cars I would of been so much quicker than everyone else it would of stuck out like a sore thumb. I was actually under the pp limit for myself due to lower downforce at the rear at 527pp, my other car was 536pp. I was in an out in three seconds, it would of taken 5-6 seconds to change cars and get back out again
 
Fuji was not a racing incident at all..., the damage caused to my car was clear cut.
Byggy carried on in the race and didn't leave...
I went in the garage to check PP only. I offered twist the opportunity to check my car after the race was completed but he said it wasn't necessary. There was no rule saying I couldn't do that as it isn't classified as settings. I said on the chat I was only checking the PP so everyone could see it, not my fault you turned a blind eye on it.

I hardly cause this BS, I call this being 100% honest.

I may have forgotten which race what happened in. And I did not see everything going on between or after the races.

But the bottom line is, you can not check PP between races, and even if you could, there is nothing you could do about it. So why would you? And how on earth could you be in doubt about those things, at this point in the season?
 
look I made a mistake letting people in the screen, so the fault is on me and its over now, no one can change it.
However next time I won't be so friendly and it will be an instant DQ (won't be able to race in the sprint race)
 
What you said, now please leave it and have it written you are not allowed to enter the garage along with settings in the future so this can be avoided.
 
This is what I am talking about with having to make extra rules. The reason you can't go into settings is because you can adjust your PP. In garage you can just swap for a non-spec car. So obviously it is a complete breach of the spirit of the rules. This is where the ridiculousness of babysitting is occurring. C-Fal, you say we should know you wouldn't have cheated in that menu. I see the cuts you had at Nurb, so this is clearly not your only incident of needing special care.

I have raced with you in plenty of series. I know you are in no ways new to online racing. You know how sporstmanlike most of us are. So I am not sure why there are any issues. But to have to specify every little thing is getting to be a bit much.

This isn't rocket science, and is supposed to be fun. Please guys, stop making so much extra work for the admins. Let them have a chance to enjoy this series too. One person spent who knows how long, counting up all the off track driving. A question to you guys who ran the track that way... Do you think that is appropriate driving? Do you think it is fair for an admin to have to spend an inordinate amount of time counting them all up? It is lucky for you guys that Litchi is a nice guy, because if it was solely my choice, you guys would be instantly removed from the series for 20+ cuts in one race. Ridiculous.
 
All I asked is something simple and a loophole that needed closing.
I cannot understand why I need extra care, I was good at Indy with Nurburgring my bad race, Fuji debatable but the penalties turned out to be unjust as I got my points back and Laguna I was a victim of lag.

I feel that every time I bring something up I am being made an example of.
 
I feel that every time I bring something up I am being made an example of.

Then take it on yourself not to be someone who can be put in that situation. If there was nothing done wrong, there would be nothing to talk about... except good race results, fun things that happened on course, etc. It would be nice to talk more about good experiences in the series rather than rule changes and rule breakers.
 
Well winning on the road for the first time at Indy and 2nd at Spa with fastest lap that was clean, after leading for the majority of it was a start this season. Also being in the top 5 last season in GT500 was a real boost for me, just ruined it at the Nurburgring.
I do like racing in the series as it is competitive and a real buzz from doing well.
The difficultly for me is that I do try and bring these points up with good intentions but it just becomes difficult that it doesn't happen.
 
That wasn't clear Byggy was meant to say Laguna. You're quite right you weren't at Fuji, should of separated the two incidents.
 
Oh yeah, Laguna Seca...my best qualification..and my laggy car ruined the race for everyone at the first turn... :yuck:
 
Who said I want to win all the time? Can you please point out where I said that? I haven't won most of the series I was on but I finished them. So your point isnt valid. I breached car regulations as it was a mistake in my part, not because I wanted to get away with it. I admitted it afterwards, so I don't know what you are on about. From what I read on the other threads, Im not the only one complaining.

As for the penalties, only track boundaries penalties were applied and my car regulation breaching penalty. Where are the contact penalties? Im not gonna mention the particular incidents I saw as I don't want to cause more problems. For a series that claim themselves to be "big" and "great" it needs a lot to be desired.
My point can be summed up this way: It no longer seems possible for you to make a post about WSGTC without trying to insult it. ^ Case in point.

It's like you have 2 personalities, one for some series, another for this, and I really don't have a clue why.
As for asking me about penalties, until someone uploads NTSC copies of PAL races, I can't do a damn thing for anybody there. Not that I would have time always, but certainly sometimes.

I'll be going over NTSC Nurb GP/F tomorrow, hopefully any penalties needed can be finished up tomorrow then or Tuesday.

As for C-Falcon's incident at Fuji, I didn't watch it, but through the feedback and discussion we had, and people who did watch the replay, it was determined a racing incident, which pretty much means either nobody did any wrong, or they were both wrong.
IIRC, it was determined they were both being quite aggressive, and was determined a racing incident.
 
My point can be summed up this way: It no longer seems possible for you to make a post about WSGTC without trying to insult it. ^ Case in point.

It's like you have 2 personalities, one for some series, another for this, and I really don't have a clue why.
As for asking me about penalties, until someone uploads NTSC copies of PAL races, I can't do a damn thing for anybody there. Not that I would have time always, but certainly sometimes.

I'll be going over NTSC Nurb GP/F tomorrow, hopefully any penalties needed can be finished up tomorrow then or Tuesday.

As for C-Falcon's incident at Fuji, I didn't watch it, but through the feedback and discussion we had, and people who did watch the replay, it was determined a racing incident, which pretty much means either nobody did any wrong, or they were both wrong.
IIRC, it was determined they were both being quite aggressive, and was determined a racing incident.

I wouldn't "insult it" if things were done the right way. From all the series I participated, this one has had the most problems. We had to do what? 4 Pre season races? And people still didn't get things right. The problem here is that Masi tried to expand the WSGTC and in my opinion it didn't work. For example, PURE JGTS, from what I read provided amazing racing. Why? Invite only. People who know each other and could race among themselves. I don't have a "hate" side for WSGTC. Im just being honest and say what I think. I don't hide thoughts, I say what's in my mind straight up. Whether people like it or not, it's up to them.
 
It should be in the rules but come on, its not really rocket science to know not to go into the garage or settings...

Just let this thread die guys, its over and done with and lets get on with the racing.
 
NEPALII
I wouldn't "insult it" if things were done the right way. From all the series I participated, this one has had the most problems. We had to do what? 4 Pre season races? And people still didn't get things right. The problem here is that Masi tried to expand the WSGTC and in my opinion it didn't work. For example, PURE JGTS, from what I read provided amazing racing. Why? Invite only. People who know each other and could race among themselves. I don't have a "hate" side for WSGTC. Im just being honest and say what I think. I don't hide thoughts, I say what's in my mind straight up. Whether people like it or not, it's up to them.

Wouldn't it be more productive to help the people who have tried to keep things going once masi decided to pull out? It's very easy to only criticise. Just remember, we didn't ask to become admins. I don't know about everyone else but it would be a lot easier to just drive. If you wish to be constructive, then would be a great help
 
NEPALII
I wouldn't "insult it" if things were done the right way. From all the series I participated, this one has had the most problems. We had to do what? 4 Pre season races? And people still didn't get things right. The problem here is that Masi tried to expand the WSGTC and in my opinion it didn't work. For example, PURE JGTS, from what I read provided amazing racing. Why? Invite only. People who know each other and could race among themselves. I don't have a "hate" side for WSGTC. Im just being honest and say what I think. I don't hide thoughts, I say what's in my mind straight up. Whether people like it or not, it's up to them.

Lol Nep. I like to read your posts wrote with a teenage mind... You just make me laugh.. Yea it's very easy to criticise when your only job is...driving. I'd like to see how you can manage and lead a series like WSGTC Nep. And call me back if it's a success, i'll offer you a snickers...
 
Wouldn't it be more productive to help the people who have tried to keep things going once masi decided to pull out? It's very easy to only criticise. Just remember, we didn't ask to become admins. I don't know about everyone else but it would be a lot easier to just drive. If you wish to be constructive, then would be a great help

I tried to be constructive about the garage as I felt it was a loop hole that could be exploited.

To be honest, I think the stewards need to think a bit more before decisions about penalties need to be made, as I managed to regain my lost Fuji points from the sprint race and managed a time penalty to be reduced at the Nurburgring from 25 to 10 seconds. Also I have a picture of the point of contact at Fuji for my incident.

I do like doing this championship but some of us do need to know things in more detail.
 
You are correct about the loophole using the garage between races. Wouldn't it if been better to say what you had figured out rather than use the garage between races?
As for the penalties, you may have had your penalties reduced, wouldn't it have been better to drive in a more appropriate manor?
If you notice any more loopholes please post about them in the thread for discussion rather than exploiting them in the next race. That would be constructive. 👍
 
Right, you do have a point there twist, I will try to, I did hold back during Indy when fighting with johnkiller to show that I could race cleanly. The garage incident was unintentional as I wasn't aware that it was illegal until you told me it was.
 
Lol Nep. I like to read your posts wrote with a teenage mind... You just make me laugh.. Yea it's very easy to criticise when your only job is...driving. I'd like to see how you can manage and lead a series like WSGTC Nep. And call me back if it's a success, i'll offer you a snickers...

Me with the teenage mind? That's a good one. Not sure if it is more pathetic me pointing out problems, to which I offered solutions at the beginning of the season, or you accusing me of driving on 2 accounts, mine and my father's. :lol: If the latter isn't childish, I wonder what is. :rolleyes: I would be willing to help if my opinion mattered.

But I'll restate them now. It might be too late, but better late than never:

1 - Reviewing incidents. Drivers use the form to report an incident. A driver that was not involved CAN report as well. This is the way it is now, but the problem is this: There should be a steward or 2 that are NOT racing in the series to decide the penalties awarded. Maybe 1 for PAL races and 1 NTSC. Maybe get Aderrrm or Wardez or RT. They are very clean and they know what sportmanship is about. This way reduces the possibility of bias decisions. In case a driver does not think the penalty awarded is fair, review incident again and allow the drivers to express their view on the incident. Upon the drivers' views, the decision may be changed or not. Basically using stewards from outside the series could help.

2 - Consequences. No offense to anyone here, but there are drivers in here who no matter how many penalties you give them they still won't drive clean and follow the rules. In this case, I think they should receive a suspension. Banning is too harsh. Suspension means they aren't allowed to race for 1 race or 2. Maybe that could make them realize that they aren't driving properly. This could help with the issues at Nurburgring where many people ran wide, multiple times. Or not having your car up to the specs like me last week :(. Hey, I will accept penalties if they are fair. I accepted the DQ because I made a mistake. I just get pissed off when it isn't fair. Having multiple opinions on an incident is better than one or two opinions.

3 - This is just a personal view, but I think that ballast should have a higher limit but whenever you stay off the top 4 instead of dropping 20KG, maybe drop 40KG or 50KG. Higher limit and higher drop might make people think more about managing their ballast.

I also had thought about having changes of specs mid season based on the drivers' thoughts on the cars. It sounds a cool idea but seems too complicated. It would be cool though. :D

To finish, if the stewards/hosts/organizers feel that they have too much work, I am willing to help. Here is my email: jcvmnb@hotmail.com I can help. 👍
 
some good constructive points there nep.

however point number 1 - everyone knows that the "Pure" organization helps us out with watching reviews and now we have a new idea which will be even better but I'm sure someone like litch or twisted will have a big statement later.

point number 2 - we take incidents and cheating very seriously and will DQ or even give a suspension for it, however it was someone's first offence then we will give them a chance to improve if they carry on then yes we will get harder on them.

Point 3 - great idea but cannot change half way through season would just be unfair so its a good idea for next season. Please save or remember the idea and when we talk about it you can bring it up
 
I would like to see the PURE organization write out their thoughts on each incident on the thread. I want to know, I don't think the decisions should be kept private to the stewards but open to all drivers involved. They decide without letting us know their process. Let us know how they reached that conclusion.

Again, if any help is needed i'll provide it guys. 👍
 
via PM I think so you can say your side of the story, I don't think everyone else should read someone else's penalty but themselfs
 
I would like to see the PURE organization write out their thoughts on each incident on the thread. I want to know, I don't think the decisions should be kept private to the stewards but open to all drivers involved. They decide without letting us know their process. Let us know how they reached that conclusion.

Again, if any help is needed i'll provide it guys. 👍
Some of these are nice ideas, but they're largely impractical.
Writing up a full review on an incident, what happened, and how what conclusion was made? There's already been 60 reports, so that's quite a bit of typing.

We also do have stewards outside the series involved, if only one. You give us a list of willing people that are known to be trustworthy and have the free time and will to do this, (that don't even take part in the series) and I highly doubt we'll turn them away.
 
via PM I think so you can say your side of the story, I don't think everyone else should read someone else's penalty but themselfs

Complaint processing and discussion may not belong in public, but the result does, imho.
 
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