Israel - Palestine discussion thread

[mustafur]

Depends which palestinians your talking about, I would certainly say the Israelis are worse then the Palestinians living in aparthied in the West Bank whilst the Israelis keep stealing their land and putting settlements trying to out populate them.

But alot of that gets brushed away by what is happening in Gaza.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Ruh roh.

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman reportedly has a message for Palestinian leadership: “agree to come to the negotiations table or shut up and stop complaining.” The blunt comment from the next-in-line to the Saudi throne, made during a meeting with Jewish organizations in New York in March, comes as the Trump administration works to broker a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians. "In the last several decades the Palestinian leadership has missed one opportunity after the other and rejected all the peace proposals it was given,” the crown prince said, according to a Channel 10 News report citing Israeli and American sources briefed about the meeting. “It is about time the Palestinians take the proposals and agree to come to the negotiations table or shut up and stop complaining."

 

[Dennisch]

Imagine the madness if peace is achieved during Trump's reign.

 

[Dennisch]

Netanyahu claims to have proof that Iran is still working on nuclear weapons.

 

[VolkswagenX]

Netanyahu claims to have proof that Iran is still working on nuclear weapons.

"Original Iranian illustration"

 

[Rage Racer]

Netanyahu claims to have proof that Iran is still working on nuclear weapons.

"Original Iranian illustration"

That one was better:

 

[Joey D]

• Use MS Paint and MS Word to create diagram
• Present it as evidence
• ???
• Profit?

 

[NotThePrez]

Imagine the madness if peace is achieved during Trump's reign.

I imagine most these leaders look at him and go "You know what, we're perfectly capable of getting into trouble ourselves without help. Let's try to mitigate that"

 

[TenEightyOne]

Imagine the madness if peace is achieved during Trump's reign.

Ha, like he'd ever get elected.


Oh.

 

[Imari]

That one was better:

Is it show and tell day at kindergarten?

 

[SestoScudo]

I got a Proposal bring back the Ottoman Empire. Ottomans rule Palestine and Israel.

No Arabs or Jews fighting or ruling. Everybody wins and we acheive World Peace.

Everybody wins. This comment will no doubt trigger Sultan Erdogan hahahha

 

[HenrySwanson]

At least 41 dead in protests over Jerusalem embassy opening

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...they-are-risking-lives-in-us-embassy-protests

Edit: 52 now dead

 

[Johnnypenso]

At least 41 dead in protests over Jerusalem embassy opening

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...they-are-risking-lives-in-us-embassy-protests

Edit: 52 now dead

Horrible stuff. I just hope they don't storm the border en masse or it could be 10x worse.

 

[Joey D]

That seems like an excessive use of force. But since it's Isreal, they don't really have any idea of what appropriate force even is.

 

[Robin]

The protesters, pretty much armed with rocks and sticks, are hardly a serious threat to the border yet are being shot by snipers. The international TV crews filming there can vouch for it. Pretty much no one has actually even crossed the border, that really is excessive.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The protesters, pretty much armed with rocks and sticks, are hardly a serious threat to the border yet are being shot by snipers. The international TV crews filming there can vouch for it. Pretty much no one has actually even crossed the border, that really is excessive.

Other than the pipe bombs and fire bombs yeah, pretty much sticks and rocks. And the three terrorists apparently caught planting a bomb near the border fence. Oh and the Hamas post in Jabaliya that fired on an IDF patrol. Other than that yeah, sticks and rocks.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Other than the pipe bombs and fire bombs yeah, pretty much sticks and rocks. And the three terrorists apparently caught planting a bomb near the border fence. Oh and the Hamas post in Jabaliya that fired on an IDF patrol. Other than that yeah, sticks and rocks.

Come on... it's David and Goliath, to quote a local story. I agree with you that "sticks and rocks" doesn't define the peak of the arms that Palestine can bring to bear on Israel but as an illustration of their comparative strength it's a pretty good one.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Come on... it's David and Goliath, to quote a local story. I agree with you that "sticks and rocks" doesn't define the peak of the arms that Palestine can bring to bear on Israel but as an illustration of their comparative strength it's a pretty good one.

David and Goliath is probably not the analogy I'd use.

 

[Robin]

Other than the pipe bombs and fire bombs yeah, pretty much sticks and rocks. And the three terrorists apparently caught planting a bomb near the border fence. Oh and the Hamas post in Jabaliya that fired on an IDF patrol. Other than that yeah, sticks and rocks.

It was a phrase, thought that was pretty clear. Don't see any snipers and armored vehicles on the Gaza side.

Come on... it's David and Goliath, to quote a local story. I agree with you that "sticks and rocks" doesn't define the peak of the arms that Palestine can bring to bear on Israel but as an illustration of their comparative strength it's a pretty good one.

Exactly, I'm not doubting that they can't bring more to this situation but I'm just describing the balance as it currently stands.

 

[Johnnypenso]

It was a phrase, thought that was pretty clear. Don't see any snipers and armored vehicles on the Gaza side.

Exactly, I'm not doubting that they can't bring more to this situation but I'm just describing the balance as it currently stands.

Pretty convenient to leave out the IED, firebombs and pipebombs but whatever floats your boat I guess.

 

[Joey D]

I mean this dude has a tennis racket, so the Palestinians are a force to be reckoned with for sure

While there are undoubtedly some bad folks in the protest, I'm guessing a majority of them aren't armed with anything more than rocks, bottles, and other things people typically have in mobs. While I don't think violence from them is right, it seems like the IDF is using excessive force and just shooting anyone that moves.

I don't trust Isreal at all and I really hate that the US continues to support them. In the grand scheme of things, they really aren't any different than any other Middle Eastern country in terms of how they behave.

 

[Robin]

Pretty convenient to leave out the IED, firebombs and pipebombs but whatever floats your boat I guess.

Floats all the UK news channels boats as well, don't know how its being reported over where you are. For example, www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRUp_AUWn9w . They dismissed it all as over embellishment to legitimize the response. Oh no, there's a man throwing a bottle with a rag in it at a heavily fortified border with hundreds of soldiers on the other side, that's going to do some serious damage!

 

[Johnnypenso]

I mean this dude has a tennis racket, so the Palestinians are a force to be reckoned with for sure

While there are undoubtedly some bad folks in the protest, I'm guessing a majority of them aren't armed with anything more than rocks, bottles, and other things people typically have in mobs. While I don't think violence from them is right, it seems like the IDF is using excessive force and just shooting anyone that moves.

I don't trust Isreal at all and I really hate that the US continues to support them. In the grand scheme of things, they really aren't any different than any other Middle Eastern country in terms of how they behave.

One of the best trained military forces in the world is firing at anything that moves in a crowd of thousands and only 52 are dead? Sounds a little implausible. Agreed, they are about the same as any other middle eastern country in how they behave. Well except for being a democracy...and women's rights...and the booming economy...and taking a crap piece of land and turning it into something productive...and being about two millenia ahead with LGBT rights and having one of the most gay friendly cities in the world...and the near 100% literacy rate...and freedom of the press...and religion...and a few thousand other things. But yeah, other than that...in the grand scheme of things they are pretty much the same.

 

[Joey D]

One of the best trained military forces in the world is firing at anything that moves in a crowd of thousands and only 52 are dead? Sounds a little implausible. Agreed, they are about the same as any other middle eastern country in how they behave. Well except for being a democracy...and women's rights...and the booming economy...and taking a crap piece of land and turning it into something productive...and being about two millenia ahead with LGBT rights and having one of the most gay friendly cities in the world...and the near 100% literacy rate...and freedom of the press...and religion...and a few thousand other things. But yeah, other than that...in the grand scheme of things they are pretty much the same.

52 dead in a non-combat situation and what is, for the most part, are just protesters sounds a little trigger happy to me. Here in the US, if anyone police force or military branch killed 52 people during a protest, there would be substantial outrage. You'd think one of the "best trained military forces in the world" could control a situation without killing unarmed, or at most armed with non-superior weapons, people.

And with regards to Isreal being like other Middle Eastern countries, that's my fault, I should've been clearer. In terms of use of force, terrorizing civilians, thinking their religion is the right religion, and thinking they have a sense of entitlement to land is no different than other Middle Eastern countries.

Yes, the country has many things going for them and you know how they got that way? US tax dollars. This source says since the end of WWII, Isreal has received $134.7 billion in aid from the US, both through military and economic stimulus. That number should be $0 - which should be the same for every other country. If the government is essentially going to steal my money, the least they could do is invest it back in the US to boost our economy.

Also, I'm not sure how booming the Isreali economy is compared to some other Middle Eastern countries. Sure, it's not poor by any means, but it's also not stupid rich since it's not loaded with oil. Looking at a list of country's GDP, Isreal ranks below, Turkey, UAE, and Saudi Arabia. If you sort the list by PPP, it ranks below Saudi Arabia, Iran, and even Iraq. Granted this list is only current through April of this year.

 

[SestoScudo]

One of the best trained military forces in the world is firing at anything that moves in a crowd of thousands and only 52 are dead? Sounds a little implausible. Agreed, they are about the same as any other middle eastern country in how they behave. Well except for being a democracy...and women's rights...and the booming economy...and taking a crap piece of land and turning it into something productive...and being about two millenia ahead with LGBT rights and having one of the most gay friendly cities in the world...and the near 100% literacy rate...and freedom of the press...and religion...and a few thousand other things. But yeah, other than that...in the grand scheme of things they are pretty much the same.

What did you expect?? the Palestinians to resist with flowers?? resistance comes with violence it has always been like that. Israelis use violence so do the Palestinians. It is a conflict for goodness sake.

 

[mustafur]

And people thought south africa were bad in their aparthied, this clearly takes the cake.

 

[Matty28]

I read the whole first page of this thread and only realised it was from 6 years ago when I saw 2012 on the last post. I think that says a lot about this disgraceful mess.

 

[Imari]

That seems like an excessive use of force. But since it's Isreal, they don't really have any idea of what appropriate force even is.

It's remarkable what the US will condone when it's done by a close ally. It really demonstrates how it's not about what is done but who is doing it.

 

[Touring Mars]

Yesterday was a day of the most stark contrast, between a triumphant Israel and US, lavishing praise on President Trump for 'creating history', while thousands of Palestinian protesters are injured and more than 50 are killed on what is for the Palestinians a day of great sorrow and protest.

The Israeli response to the protesters at the Gaza-Israeli border was as robust as it gets - and, once again, the people of Palestine are caught between a very hard rock and a very hard place. Israel have a right to defend their border, but international law (and common decency) demands that they do so in an appropriate manner. On the face of it, killing protesters - some unarmed, some armed with slings and rocks - seems horribly heavy-handed (criminally so in fact). However, the wider context gives at least some support to the Israeli point of view - what is it that these protesters want? They want - rightly or wrongly - to reclaim the land that Israel is settled on; coupled with the fact that the Palestinians (and, more importantly, their Iranian backers) refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist, and you have a situation where Israel is faced with a stark choice - either let tens of thousands of people who wish to wipe Israel (and Israelis) off the map, or stop them. Sadly, while the vast majority of protesters are either unarmed or armed with nothing more than sticks and stones, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah and by extension Iran do not exactly have a good track record when it comes to how they propose Israel and its people ought to be dealt with - it is also clear that not all the people at the Gaza-Israel border are 'protesters'. The nature of the existential threat(s) and numerous previous attacks against Israel makes that all too clear - what looks like an unarmed person could easily turn out to be someone wearing a suicide belt, and hence Israel's policy is that it will not tolerate any attempt to illegally enter the country, lest an 'unarmed' person turns out to be a Hamas/Iranian-funded suicide bomber.

It is a horrible situation that both the Israeli and Palestinian people face. Israel have at least seemingly attempted to make it clear what the consequences are for trying to breach the border - while anti-Israeli forces are allegedly offering financial incentives to try. But why are Israel so heavy-handed when, it would appear, that the only ones benefiting from the huge numbers of casualties are the opponents of Israel? While it would appear that the majority of Palestinian people wish to (and have every right to) protest and call international attention to their plight, there is also a very large, well-funded, hard-line element for whom martyrdom is a price worth paying in order to achieve their ultimate aim - the destruction of Israel.

 

[Liquid]

I am sure that if Syria, Russia or Iran had shot 52 protesters dead there would be a greater and more forceful outcry from the international community. It shouldn't matter who shot whom but clearly in order to garner attention and sympathy but, sadly, it does.

Something piqued my interest the other week after some friends of mine went on holiday to Israel and Palestine before it all kicked off again this most recent time; as they were being interrogated upon landing at Tel-Aviv about what they plan to do and where they plan on going one of my friends, seemingly unaware of who 'owns' what, slipped up during his interrogation:

"Are you planning on travelling to Palestine during your stay?"
"No, just going to Bethlehem."

WOOP! WOOP! Big QI klaxon right there and they were delayed for even more time as they were given the third degree.

But it struck me as so bizarre that Israel claims all of its claimed territory, doesn't recognise Palestine but acknowledges that people travelling to places like Bethlehem for example, are leaving Israeli jurisdiction. You're going somewhere Israel claims but doesn't recognise the actual ruling jurisdiction even though the place isn't under your control, and you know that because you acknowledge that people travelling there are travelling somewhere 'different' and therefore need to be frisked and questioned, therefore you recognise that you, in fact, don't 'own' it...?

There was also the debacle where two of them were given paper entry visas without asking and my third friend who specifically asked for a paper entry visa before being given one found himself on the end of some sudden aggression by the border patrolwoman and was asked "Why do you want to visit one of those places which doesn't recognise Israel anyway?" The answer being, "Well, I have friends who live there and what business is it of yours?"

Anyway, just something I found very strange.

And in case it didn't get reported, there were Israelis outside the Prime Minister's house protesting the Gaza shootings:



It's Twitter but I'll take it as authentic.