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- Earth, SS, MW
Kaz interview on Eurogamer - Standards are here to stay! Poll added
- Thread starter Johnnypenso
- 1,699 comments
- 81,415 views
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- 2,428
- England
- Lewis_Hamilton_
No, it really isn't. No matter how you try and sugarcoat it all, keeping such low quality models will drag down the quality of the rest of the game with it while you are playing it, and will break your immersion when out on the track or in photomode. It already does this somewhat in GT5 and 6, they will only stick out like a sore thumb even more in GT7, it's going to amplify the problem much further.
Would other companies get away with the same thing just to fluff their character count?
ONLY on GTplanet do I see people saying that keeping assests from 2 generations ago is acceptable, anywhere or anyone else and the company would be getting publically slaughtered. Too many people try and tell PD that it's ok and repeatedly, game after game we end up with the same crap and problems. If you keep accepting it, you will keep getting the same flaws. And the same ridiculous argument "do not drive them" currently doesn't work when you cannot complete the game without them.
Delay the game for Pete's sake and sort it out.
- 159
- birmingham
- claudiocaniggia8
Sorry about that. I'm just going on what I see posted by some people on here. Very up one day, very down the next. I'm glad people like yourself stick to your views.
- 1,443
- Conquerer13
You're comparing a special mode/feature to the regular part of the game. For a real comparison, take MGSV on PS4. Snake is a PS4 model, very good quality, Ocelot is an old PS2 model from MGS2 but with slightly upgraded textures to update his appearance, and Huey is Hal's PS2 model taken straight from MGS2 without any touch ups. And you play the game interacting with all these people, seeing them in the cutscenes, etc. PS2 characters in PS4 quality environments. That's exactly what's happening with standards in GT7.
And for those who always bring up the old fallacy argument of "well don't use them then!" -- it's not as simple as that. I'm sick of racing with my high quality premium cars and seeing terrible, blocky PS2 quality cars all around me on the track. It completely kills the atmosphere. Also when I want to buy a new car I need to swipe through 5 pages of garbage quality PS2 dupes before I can see the premium cars I want. And sometimes it might be confusing for a few seconds from the small menu as to which model is premium and which is standard as PD loves to keep useless standards when identical premium models also exist. Furthermore, the game is designed around all the cars so in some races with specific regulations the leading cars might be specific standard models that are difficult to beat in the available premium cars, so you might need to use a standard model to give yourself a chance.
It's just simply unacceptable to reuse these models again. Absolutely disgusting.
- 28,300
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
This will never be a valid rebuttal to anything, especially this. If your perception of an "all-time low" is that of people being rightly displeased with the apparent decision to carry over 10+ year old assets to an entirely new generation, then I have to say: you mustn't have high standards to begin with, and that's not to be an insult. It's simply the way your comment is coming across.
The parallels being drawn to Ground Zeroes have absolutely no grounds either - you're actively comparing a throwback to something where legacy assets are actively being used in a large portion of the game; legacy assets that are going to be even more painfully obvious and out of place than they are now.
- 276
- Belo Horizonte
If PD started remodeling those standards from the moment they started developing GT5: Prologue, at least 70% of them would be complete by now. How many years since then, 7, 6? The standards were a design choice that shouldn't have ever been, and now they cannot go back on their choice.
- 2,993
- Brisbane
- jimipitbull
- 2,428
- England
- Lewis_Hamilton_
Do people think GT3 would have been better if they had ported over the cars and tracks from GT1/2? Would people look back on the game and still regard it as being highly polished?
- 470
- United Kingdom
- PIP_36
Of all the things that GT7 needs to be or should be, the decision to include standard cars should be the least of our worries...
Sounds. (Yeah, I read the same as you did, Kaz said it will be improved, he said the same before gt6 was released and I can't take this mans word for it)
Single player mode/career...needs a complete revision.
Online mode/career/stability..also needs serious revision.
User interface needs a complete revision...ie the childlike sounds and animations.
All of the above is only my opinion, no offence meant to some who will take the above opinion/criticism personally.
Sounds. (Yeah, I read the same as you did, Kaz said it will be improved, he said the same before gt6 was released and I can't take this mans word for it)
Single player mode/career...needs a complete revision.
Online mode/career/stability..also needs serious revision.
User interface needs a complete revision...ie the childlike sounds and animations.
All of the above is only my opinion, no offence meant to some who will take the above opinion/criticism personally.
- 276
- Belo Horizonte
No reason to take personally what you've wrote above. I disagree, keeping or ditching Standards are a major decision for GT7, specially since this is a next-gen title. It should be right up next to the upgraded sounds and offline content, but the sounds are already being sorted out, so there is no disagreements over here in the forum about that, after all, it's a common complaint.
- 456
- 'Murica
- spencer7x7
The gap from PS2 to PS3 ain't as big as PS1 to PS2. Also the gap from PS3 to 4 is virtually nonexistent in stills.
- 159
- birmingham
- claudiocaniggia8
I'll take it from this you have been given absolute assurances that pd intends to include all standard models from gt6 exactly as they appear now some 18 months or so before gt7 appears on ps4.
- 932
- Peoria, AZ, USA
- MattZR1_81
The standards were the only design choice they had back in the PS2 era if I am not mistaken. Porting them over to GT5 is where they made the wrong choice, although I think if they had been working on them since the beginning of announcing GT5: Prologue, that would have been better than where we are now.
- 2,012
I hope Sony steps up and talks to Kaz about the matter. PS2 quality assets don't sell consoles on 2016 (guessing GT7's release date).
This truly is the only AAA franchise that keeps assets from the past millennium, re-releasing them for quantity comparisons. PD really needs to understand Gran Turismo is not a MUGEN game, but a console seller financed by Sony for that and for which graphics are of the essence.
Also consider subpar models is just one part of what a 'standard' car is. Those 'standard' cars also suffer from PS2 and PS1 quality in all aspects, such as sounds, driving characteristics, attention to detail, textures, having interiors, etc.
Finally, this move will make GT7 be trashed at reviews and in overall reputation. GT5 and GT6 didn't receive positive reviews for being an AAA title and its reputation didn't improve exactly, but if the decision is kept GT7 will be destroyed. This matters nowadays because the console competition will have a better critically acclaimed game, Forza (Horizon too), so it will change console purchase decisions for some people, maybe a million on the long run.
That's not true. Just compare any 3D game PS3 and PS4 ports. Come to think of it, that difference is pretty much the same as comparing GT6 with GT6's trailers, the latter that look much better because of using a higher resolution, filter, effects and whatnot.
However, the biggest difference so far is not in graphics, but in sound. Those PS4 ports sound much, much better than their PS3's counterparts. This is also a part of the reason why 'standards' should not be in a PS4 console, as they will sound way worse than the "uber-premium" cars (those made for GT7).
edit: Also you are not considering that right now on the PS3 the gap is massive between a standard car and a premium one. Compare the Alto Works with a Senna car. That difference will increase on the PS4.
This truly is the only AAA franchise that keeps assets from the past millennium, re-releasing them for quantity comparisons. PD really needs to understand Gran Turismo is not a MUGEN game, but a console seller financed by Sony for that and for which graphics are of the essence.
Also consider subpar models is just one part of what a 'standard' car is. Those 'standard' cars also suffer from PS2 and PS1 quality in all aspects, such as sounds, driving characteristics, attention to detail, textures, having interiors, etc.
Finally, this move will make GT7 be trashed at reviews and in overall reputation. GT5 and GT6 didn't receive positive reviews for being an AAA title and its reputation didn't improve exactly, but if the decision is kept GT7 will be destroyed. This matters nowadays because the console competition will have a better critically acclaimed game, Forza (Horizon too), so it will change console purchase decisions for some people, maybe a million on the long run.
That's not true. Just compare any 3D game PS3 and PS4 ports. Come to think of it, that difference is pretty much the same as comparing GT6 with GT6's trailers, the latter that look much better because of using a higher resolution, filter, effects and whatnot.
However, the biggest difference so far is not in graphics, but in sound. Those PS4 ports sound much, much better than their PS3's counterparts. This is also a part of the reason why 'standards' should not be in a PS4 console, as they will sound way worse than the "uber-premium" cars (those made for GT7).
edit: Also you are not considering that right now on the PS3 the gap is massive between a standard car and a premium one. Compare the Alto Works with a Senna car. That difference will increase on the PS4.
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- 2,428
- England
- Lewis_Hamilton_
Are you sure about that? PS4 graphics seem much better to me (especially regarding the Uncharted teaser) than PS3, and we are only 7 months into the new generation. Compare 7 month old games on the PS3 rather than the 2013/2014 games for a better comparison. The leap from each generation in GT seems just as big as each other as well. Which is why it's a shame they are keeping the standard cars in my opinion, a crying shame infact.
- 28,300
- Brooklyn, NY
- KR_Viper
- I Renown I
If they're not remodeled from scratch and are using the same meshes that are woefully outdated than it doesn't matter how much they're gussied up - they're going to look out of place.
- 276
- Belo Horizonte
That's what I said. Porting them to GT5 was a wrong decision, and now they cannot go back and change their decision, thus they'll use them also on GT7. I wonder if Forza 6 is gonna launch with at least 600 cars, if that's the case, and with the customization options it offers, I'll have to seriously consider getting myself a XBONE instead of a PS4.
- 306
- Alberta
- Rustyhole_PSN
GTPlanet tends to be a lot knee-jerk about this game.
Stopped at page 8... like most forums, most posts deserve to be in the whining thread as someone earlier stated.
Just people going off on their particular pet peeve as they now have a dedicated forum topic.
- 456
- 'Murica
- spencer7x7
PS4 will obviously look better, but the car models from GT4 and GT5 and 6 for me personally are not as bad as the PS1 models. Also textures lightning and other affect the look. Standards or not I'll buy GT7 eventually, but it would be awesome if my favorites were premium. And I won't accept Project Cars or Grid as substitutes for GT, High Speed Ring all the way for me.
- 5,551
- Controls set for heart of sun
- GTP_RogerTheHors
Graphics graphics graphics. How much do they actually affect gameplay? Well, other than draw distance, barely at all. I say keep the standards. I'd rather be able to drive around in obscure old Kei cars than not.
- 2,993
- Brisbane
- jimipitbull
- 276
- Belo Horizonte
Compare movies to games? Your post cannot even be taken seriously.
- 17,835
- Florida
- GranTurismo0517
- RandomCarGuy17
What's funny about this example is that Capcom actually did something like this with RE6.
- 159
- birmingham
- claudiocaniggia8
Yes I understand this, but you are telling people they're going to look more out of place. I think, and my
sight is fine, the standards were much better looking in gt5 than gt4 (vast majority). The standards in gt6 look better than gt5 (vast majority). I see no reason the standards won't look better again on ps4. I can't see why they'd look "more" out of place.
- 692
- Brighton/UK
- GTP_janimal
I would agree completely if there was any decent (off-line) gameplay in GT5 & GT6, the fact that they are keeping the standards, makes me think they'll also minimally tweak the AI, and keep the same terrible A-spac like they did from GT5 -> GT6
[edit] extraneous quote removed!
- 2,993
- Brisbane
- jimipitbull
It was a direct response to Lewis' question about companies fluffing their character count.
- 276
- Belo Horizonte
The special effects in movies don't have anything with fluffing their character count.
- 17,835
- Florida
- GranTurismo0517
- RandomCarGuy17
I'm just completely baffled that PD is actually thinking of doing this, putting PS2 models in a game that's 2 generations ahead. It's just plain crazy and I'm now worried about the series, I really don't want GT to die and this decision can risk the franchise. I mean, I personally am fine with the standards; it wouldn't effect me in any way if PD keeps them or gets rid of them, but I at the same time care about how GT looks to the public. I care because I don't want to see their image screwed up any further.
- 2,993
- Brisbane
- jimipitbull
- 2,428
- England
- Lewis_Hamilton_
If you wanted to make your movie comparison have any relevance at all, you would have said that Jurrasic Park could have had The Lost World's models and animation (from 1925) and apparently been just as memorable and immersive. Srangely enough, in the past, real people still looked like real people though
There's only so much you can polish a turd before having to give up and accept that it is indeed, still a turd. I'm not sure how much longer people expect standards to be acceptable for, when we are on the PS6 or PS7, will they still be ok then?
The problem is, is we're going to have a game that looks incredibly photo realistic throughout, and then there will be half a dozen PS2 cars driving around in there next to other jaw droppingly good looking cars. It will pull you right out of any immersion.
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