Kaz interview on Eurogamer - Standards are here to stay! Poll added

[sircarltonlotus]

I've yet to see you explain why it's important to keep them rather than your emotional attachment to it like Linus to his blanket (Charlie Brown Reference).

Could you please give a more in depth understanding? Or is that really all you have to say on it, because if so then that's fine too nothing I can say against that.

I can't explain it any better than that sorry. Personally if this is the reality we face, then I would wish to continue to have the standards in game. I use standards without even giving it a second thought, I love some of the standards and that's it. Graphics aren't the be all and end all. If you see an F1 simulator from the last few years, the graphics are not great but I still yearn to have a go in one someday. We know they can't/won't remodel all standards, so they won't look as good, I still want to drive them tho. That's it really

 

[NixxxoN]

A large number of the standard cars are either dupes or insignificant cars from the 80s and 90s. Do you use all 800 standard cars? I doubt it. I don't want to lose every model currently represented as a standard car, I would like to see the most popular and most used re-done as premium. Maybe 100/200, I haven't checked. There certainly is no need for all 800 to be copied across.

WTF... seriously... speak for yourself, there are a lot of very interesting standard cars even if they are from the 80's and the 90's (the duplicates I agree though)


Its VERY GOOD decision that no car is left out from GT7 because as Kaz correctly said, lots of people are fans of many standard cars even if they have lower model quality but they are still cool and fun to drive!

In fact, to me lots of times older cars are better than newer cars in the way that they are much lighter and simpler. The new cars are sometimes very heavy very equiped and with lots of electronics... Sometimes I dont like them so much.

 

[sircarltonlotus]

What I fail to understand is this. You have GT6 (you probably have GT5 too?) So those standard cars are already available to you, in an environment where, whilst still out of place, are more fitting. You will still be able to drive them for as long as you want, when you no longer want to drive them disconnect your PS3, and sell the console & the game.

I loved GT1, to GT4, and so I was still playing them until 2 years ago (long after I bought the PS3). The only reason to hang on to such outdated assets is for marketing. If the actual cars are really that important from an historical point of view then they deserve to be rendered at PS4 quality.

Yeah I've got gt5. However once gtacademy at Silverstone was introduced with the new physics I couldn't go back to it. I played it for 2 1/2 years and then couldn't play it anymore. Gt7 will have better physics again. The same thing will happen.

 

[1241Penguin]

WTF... seriously... speak for yourself, there are a lot of very interesting standard cars even if they are from the 80's and the 90's.

Did you even read his post? He clearly said that he wanted "the most popular and most used re-done as premium."

And on that note, we don't want to lose the cars themselves, we want to lose the standard models of the cars. Of course we would like to see a Supra or an E46 M3 in GT7, but not as standard models.

It still a mystery why PD doesn't just copy and paste the models. They could easily add another 100-200 cars to the game by this process.

 

[jimipitbull]

I've probably role played more than most people and perhaps you in the past 10 years. If it be stories/turn based, or mmo rpg the list goes on. The point is one shouldn't have to imagine a car looking like it should look because some people don't want to say negative things about it. You for example.

Also GT and others like it aren't a rpg so it makes no sense to have the mind set of it being one or treat it like one because saying a realistic critique isn't in your nature when talking about GT/PD.

Brain development between ages 3 and 7 are the key point here, crucial in regards to creative thinking and imagination, for decades to come. So unless you are currently 13 -17 years old, I don't think the mmo rpgs are quite the same as 4 year olds dressing up, playing doctors and nurses vs ninjas and pirates.

 

[Morphisor]

Something which should ease the graphical pain of standard quality models on the PS4 game, is the fact that the PS4 should provide MUCH higher quality visual effects and shader technology. Effective use of such tech makes it possible to make even simple flat, edgy textures look realistic, so at least externally standard cars should look pretty decent.

 

[NixxxoN]

Did you even read his post? He clearly said that he wanted "the most popular and most used re-done as premium."

And on that note, we don't want to lose the cars themselves, we want to lose the standard models of the cars. Of course we would like to see a Supra or an E46 M3 in GT7, but not as standard models.

It still a mystery why PD doesn't just copy and paste the models. They could easily add another 200-300 cars to the game by this process.

Yea of course, Kaz said some of them would be "premium'ed", didnt he? And some of them quality improved for sure. But that doesnt mean the others must be removed. I'd remove the blatantly duplicated ones only.



Anyway I find incredible how much of a graphics hoes are some people. I'd rather have quanitity than stupid pointless ultra high quality and no quantity. Games are to be played not to be graphically analized.

 

[NixxxoN]

(double post, deleted)

 

[Johnnypenso]

Its VERY GOOD decision that no car is left out from GT7 because as Kaz correctly said, lots of people are fans of many standard cars even if they have lower model quality but they are still cool and fun to drive!

In fact, to me lots of times older cars are better than newer cars in the way that they are much lighter and simpler. The new cars are sometimes very heavy very equiped and with lots of electronics... Sometimes I dont like them so much.

If you took a poll of GTP members, arguably the most fanatic GTP fanbase around, how many do you think would be "happy" with standards in GT7? In your opinion, how what % of GTP'ers would have to be happy with standards in order for Kaz to include them, assuming it was our decision to make? Try to put your personal feelings aside and think like a developer. I'd like to get a handle on "lots of people".

Where are all these heavily equipped modern cars and all their electronics? All I see in the game is a generic list of driving aids availalble for everything from a Kubelwagen to the latest Nissan.

 

[gpjeff]

Booooo..... I don't drive standard cars and feel that if I have to dish out the cash for a PS4 and GT7 then they can put the time and money into making all cars in the game Premium cars!

 

[NixxxoN]

If you took a poll of GTP members, arguably the most fanatic GTP fanbase around, how many do you think would be "happy" with standards in GT7? In your opinion, how what % of GTP'ers would have to be happy with standards in order for Kaz to include them? I'd like to get a handle on "lots of people".

Where are all these heavily equipped modern cars and all their electronics? All I see in the game is a generic list of driving aids availalble for everything from a Kubelwagen to the latest Nissan.

You know, actually some people dont really care about perfect graphics, they only want a good variety of cars to use and tracks to run in.

And the car electronics of newer cars are not "visible" obviously, but the physics are created with them.

 

[mr_serious]

I've probably role played more than most people and perhaps you in the past 10 years. If it be stories/turn based, or mmo rpg the list goes on. The point is one shouldn't have to imagine a car looking like it should look because some people don't want to say negative things about it. You for example.

Also GT and others like it aren't a rpg so it makes no sense to have the mind set of it being one or treat it like one because saying a realistic critique isn't in your nature when talking about GT/PD.

I'm placed between the two of you here...

Most of my favourite games are from an era when the graphics were pretty poor, certainly not realistic (anyone remember spy vs spy? )

However most of those games had great gameplay, the Geoff Crammond f1 games for example were graphically bereft, but that didn't matter because the actual gameplay was realistic even if the graphics weren't.

Sadly GT's gameplay is completely disconnected from reality and is nothing like real world racing. The AI is terrible, the events are terrible. GT has been relying on it's graphics for years & the introduction of standards to GT5 and since, has utterly diminished their one main advantage over the competition.

 

[Johnnypenso]

You know, actually some people dont really care about perfect graphics, they only want a good variety of cars to use and tracks to run in.

You didn't answer any of my questions. Shall I repost them or are you afraid to answer direct questions with direct answers?

 

[SCER]

If you took a poll of GTP members, arguably the most fanatic GTP fanbase around, how many do you think would be "happy" with standards in GT7?

Did you not just make that poll, albeit a heavily biased version of it? And was the most popular response not that they were happy to buy the game regardless?

 

[NixxxoN]

You didn't answer any of my questions. Shall I repost them or are you afraid to answer direct questions with direct answers?

Oh yes I'm so afraid, lol.

I dont have a clue about exact numbers and you don't either, and we will never know. Pointless question to ask.

 

[Neural73]

To me, it all comes down to a very simple conclusion: Basically, they acknowledge that the competition is dangerously becoming so ahead in all aspects (Project C.A.R.S, A.C, etc), not only in the sound department - although in this case the gap, even with the latest relative improvements, is at least some half decade to GT disadvantage - that they cannot cope with a direct confrontation.

So their approach is a brute force one, knowing that those competitiors have a number of cars hovering around the < 100 mark, PD responds with some 500 premium cars, and 800 more legacy imports crafted with more than 10 year old technology, reaching in excess of one order of magnitude regarding sheer numbers difference.

This is a pure marketing strategy, desperate in my opinion, as the sound is a huge part of the immersion factor in a simulation or "wannabe" simulation.

So in the end we will be left with 500 well modeled cars with sub par sounds, even taking into account the expected huge step forward in GT7 - which I cannot stop imaging it as being huge only at a deeply relative measure, taking into consideration the abysmal lag to the current (not even future or near future) sound engines of other simulators.

To add to all this, the sound isn't the only catastrophic failure needing remedy, the AI is absolutely of Nintendo 8 bit standard.

They keep running forward from the problems, towards the inevitable concrete wall of failure, I'm afraid, hoping to be wrong... English is not my native language, so forgive me for the occasional spelling or grammar slippage...

 

[Johnnypenso]

Oh yes I'm so afraid, lol.

I dont have a clue about exact numbers and you don't either, and we will never know. Pointless question to ask.

Why can't you just answer the question? I didn't ask you for exact numbers did I? I asked for your opinions, not facts. You didn't seem to be afraid before to give an opinion about the game, why are you so afraid now? It's ok to be afraid by the way, it's good for the soul to confess stuff like that.

Did you not just make that poll, albeit a heavily biased version of it? And was the most popular response not that they were happy to buy the game regardless?

Different question. What is heavily biased about the poll?

 

[gt3killer]

For me it's bit disappointing that standards are likely to return, but it won't bother me so long as they add more premium cars. They're plenty of premium cars in GT6 that make me forget standard cars are even in the game. What I wish they would rather do is ditch the standards altogether and slowly bring them back as premiums.

 

[NixxxoN]

Why can't you just answer the question? I didn't ask you for exact numbers did I? I asked for your opinions, not facts. You didn't seem to be afraid before to give an opinion about the game, why are you so afraid now? It's ok to be afraid by the way, it's good for the soul to confess stuff like that.

Well, that was my opinion, a lot of people use standards in GT6 because I play everyday and I see it. How many % ? We will never know... But what I see is that people more often than not use the best CARS TO DRIVE in online races (or the ones they like the most), regardless of them being standard or not.

 

[Ddrizle]

For me to even consider a GT7 purchase, as I passed on purchasing GT6:

(Just a few of many things I'd list)

- Hire more people.
- Drop all the standards. ALL OF THEM! (Just making sure this point here is clear.)
- Dramatic improvement to sounds across the board.
- Release GT7 in a state that I'd be happy to purchase, with features claimed ready on release and on the disc. (These Day 1 patches are getting ridiculous to me.) - Unfortunately with the state of how games are released nowadays I'm sure this won't happen.
- Keep focus on the core game.

I'm sure many won't agree with my list or my opinion, but that's okay, we're human after all. 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well, that was my opinion, a lot of people use standards in GT6 because I play everyday and I see it. How many % ? We will never know... But what I see is that people more often than not use the best CARS TO DRIVE in online races (or the ones they like the most), regardless of them being standard or not.

I see you don't want to answer. No problem. It's much easier to make general statements, than actually answer direct questions.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Brain development between ages 3 and 7 are the key point here, crucial in regards to creative thinking and imagination, for decades to come. So unless you are currently 13 -17 years old, I don't think the mmo rpgs are quite the same as 4 year olds dressing up, playing doctors and nurses vs ninjas and pirates.

Considering I've done it for ten years I was 13 when I started RPG and most people did those things when they were little kids. Once again the point is that has nothing to do with expected consistency many want to see from PD toward the development and recreation of vehicles in their game. We shouldn't have to imagine and if this is once again just another way of not only moving the goal post but also telling us they've done no wrong, this is a piss poor explanation.

I'm placed between the two of you here...
Most of my favourite games are from an era when the graphics were pretty poor, certainly not realistic (anyone remember spy vs spy? )

However most of those games had great gameplay, the Geoff Crammond f1 games for example were graphically bereft, but that didn't matter because the actual gameplay was realistic even if the graphics weren't.

Sadly GT's gameplay is completely disconnected from reality and is nothing like real world racing. The AI is terrible, the events are terrible. GT has been relying on it's graphics for years & the introduction of standards to GT5 and since, has utterly diminished their one main advantage over the competition.

I too play many games still that didn't have the greatest graphics but were fun due to story line and so on when I was younger. However, I played GT because the cars for the time of the first were well rendered the system of working your way up was well thought out and so on, this is obviously going to be continuous. Before GT5 they had no problem rendering assets on equal terms and in large quantities. Now they've changed that since GT5 and are planning on doing it for a third game and people don't care because it's their precious family like member that can't do no wrong, instead of being a gaming group that even if attached to as a buyer or player since 98 shouldn't bar them of criticism. If you screw up you get called on it, why PD are some double standard to some people here is beyond me.

Note: Not saying you're doing this directly I'm talking in general really.

 

[starspd11]

Just speculating here, but if people don't care about graphics that much, why would you buy the next Gran Turismo which may have the same standard cars and quality from the previous installments? New tracks and cars are nice, but it doesn't justify spending full price on a game that has the same recycled content, which is likely going to be the vast majority of it. I would rather they start over from scratch and build it right so we can get a quality game, which isn't going to happen. Graphics are a big deal (coupled with proper engine sounds) for some of us because it's as close to driving the cars of our dreams and it immerse us in our driving experience.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I can't explain it any better than that sorry. Personally if this is the reality we face, then I would wish to continue to have the standards in game. I use standards without even giving it a second thought, I love some of the standards and that's it. Graphics aren't the be all and end all. If you see an F1 simulator from the last few years, the graphics are not great but I still yearn to have a go in one someday. We know they can't/won't remodel all standards, so they won't look as good, I still want to drive them tho. That's it really

No one says it's the end all, but sadly this is 2014 not 2004 the growth of visuals, sounds, physics and other things that have been improved immensely between then and now is to be expected. So when a group says "we're going to keep taking this step back because we have too many assets (due to marketing but we can't say that)." It's quite the issue.

As for F1 graphics it depends on what team you look at because they're not all the same and bigger teams like Ferrari have Assetto like graphics while Sauber or Lotus have something much less rFactor the first or maybe the second. Either way none of us are in the market for an F1 sim and the importance of those are simulating more on a hardware understanding, while giving graphics that are decent.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Yeah, I don't understand why people would complain if the standards were gone. I bet PD will remodel a lot of the ones we would miss eventually anyway and you can still drive them in GT4/5/6. It just seems silly to me at this point since PD also said they'll focus on creating more premiums anyway (GT7 could have up to 600 cars), they're really not necessary.

 

[Welsh-Fury]

Graphics = Gameplay?

Sorry GTP, but I'm hoping for the game physics to be more refined, more tracks and cars (Standard or not) as opposed to how pretty it can be.

 

[NixxxoN]

I see you don't want to answer. No problem. It's much easier to make general statements, than actually answer direct questions.

I CAN'T answer it.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I CAN'T answer it.

*Chuckles*

 

[iRevelationz]

I CAN'T answer it.

Yes you can. He's not asking for an exact number; he's asking for your estimated guess. Unless you have no conception of what numbers and percentages are, you can answer it.

You won't answer it.

 

[NixxxoN]

Just speculating here, but if people don't care about graphics that much, why would you buy the next Gran Turismo which may have the same standard cars and quality from the previous installments? New tracks and cars are nice, but it doesn't justify spending full price on a game that has the same recycled content, which is likely going to be the vast majority of it. I would rather they start over from scratch and build it right so we can get a quality game, which isn't going to happen. Graphics are a big deal (coupled with proper engine sounds) for some of us because it's as close to driving the cars of our dreams and it immerse us in our driving experience.

Same stuff as always... If you dont like standards, dont buy them, problem solved. Game will be improved in every area, supposedly, because of a much powerful system. Standards being there doesnt equal to "same recycled content", they will be probably improved/fixed a bit. Anyway regardless of the standards we will see a much better graphics quality and surely a big sound improvement aswell.