Kaz interview on Eurogamer - Standards are here to stay! Poll added

[Johnnypenso]

You know, I've noticed over my time here on GTP that there are an awful lot of different ultimatums on here...

No standards or I'm done
better AI or I'm done
better sounds or I'm done
more customization or I'm done
ect. ect. ect.

sort of a lose lose for PD isn't it?

I suggest you look up a dictionary of phrases to see what lose/lose means.

 

[Terronium-12]

Yes I understand this, but you are telling people they're going to look more out of place. I think, and my
sight is fine, the standards were much better looking in gt5 than gt4 (vast majority). The standards in gt6 look better than gt5 (vast majority). I see no reason the standards won't look better again on ps4. I can't see why they'd look "more" out of place.

You understand it, yet you question what you apparently understand?

No worry, I'll be a bit more clear: the models in GT6 that were "touched up" more than likely had specific parts completely redrawn, which would eventually lead (one would think!) to the model at some point or another being redone from those new assets.

Let's diffuse it even further though: no amount of touching up or redrawing is going to account for carrying over old assets that will already be outdated the day GT7 hits the shelves. It's going to be a negative aspect of the game and will be pointed out by every single reviewer worth the weight in gold for the third consecutive in the game's history.

There is a point, especially in this age where texture maps are more immaculately detailed than ever and are now going to be mapped out to 4K, where whatever has been touched up will be even more of sore issue than it is now. If you're expecting more than 800 vehicles to reach that level I honestly don't know what to tell you.

 

[sircarltonlotus]

If you wanted to make your movie comparison have any relevance at all, you would have said that Jurrasic Park could have had The Lost World's models and animation (from 1925) and apparently been just as memorable and immersive. Srangely enough, in the past, real people
still looked like real people though



There's only so much you can polish a turd before having to give up and accept that it is indeed, still a turd. I'm not sure how much longer people expect standards to be acceptable for, when we are on the PS6 or PS7, will they still be ok then?

I'm gonna have to say at this point, everyone against this should petition pd hard on introducing this standard car filter. It'd unacceptable to you for them to be included it's unacceptable to me for them to all be removed.

 

[MasamuneDate]

I'm gonna have to say at this point, everyone against this should petition pd hard on introducing this standard car filter. It'd unacceptable to you for them to be included it's unacceptable to me for them to all be removed.

What if 50% of them is removed (remembering that a high percentage of those fifty percent are duplicates) and the other 50% are remodeled as premium until the release date. Would you be satisfied with that? It would please both parties. And among those 50% that were cut, the non-duplicates with time could be slowly remodeled and introduced as free DLC.

 

[tillbot8]

I think the main issue is not what we think, (we are the Die-Hards and Negative Nancy's so will have strong opinions on it one way or the other) but it is a valid argument to bring up the gaming media on this. Why? because the millions of buyers of the GT franchise are casuals and casuals are easily swayed. TokoTurismo was right earlier when he said that it would factor if the gaming press give a poor review (which they will if Kaz goes through with this).

I have never seen a generation that has put so much emphasis on Graphical assets, Resolution and Performance as this Generation. We all know the Media will run with 'GT7 continues the trend with PS2 Standards in game' regardless of how well polished and correctly the physics engine has been applied. Many of us will say so what? But it is the key demographic 'The Casual'theyll listen and will react with their wallet. And what will this mean? Yoshida and co over at Sony will be pissed that their prized pony has been degraded from a visual masterpiece a la GT4 to what is now. So funding and jobs may be cut and the creative freedom that Kaz has will never be seen again. It's not really an issue of 'if you don't like standards then don't drive them, its a matter of re-capturing that essence the Gran Turismo once gave and it was only in part car count. They did GT3 from scratch and it didnt seem to hurt it one bit being sub 200 cars! Continuity in a video game is a very important asset. You are only as strong as your weakest link so to speak. So as indifferent as I am to PD placing standard cars in the next iteration of Gran Turismo for PS4 I would strongly advise from strictly a business perspective that they re-consider it!

 

[sircarltonlotus]

You understand it, yet you question what you apparently understand?

No worry, I'll be a bit more clear: the models in GT6 that were "touched up" more than likely had specific parts completely redrawn, which would eventually lead (one would think!) to the model at some point or another being redone from those new assets.

Let's diffuse it even further though: no amount of touching up or redrawing is going to account for carrying over old assets that will already be outdated the day GT7 hits the shelves. It's going to be a negative aspect of the game and will be pointed out by every single reviewer worth the weight in gold for the third consecutive in the game's history.

There is a point, especially in this age where texture maps are more immaculately detailed than ever and are now going to be mapped out to 4K, where whatever has been touched up will be even more of sore issue than it is now. If you're expecting more than 800 vehicles to reach that level I honestly don't know what to tell you.

Yes I definitely understand. I want the choice, just because people don't want their poor eyes getting hurt by standards shouldn't mean I get 500 cars wiped out. I'm sure pd will do a good job on implementing them.

 

[SCER]

I suggest you look up a dictionary of phrases to see what lose/lose means.

Although he didn't convey it particularly well, I'd agree with him that this is a lose-lose situation for Polyphony Digital. Disgust those who want next-gen quality across the board or disgust those who love Gran Turismo for the variety and number of cars it has. Judging by the percentage responses they seem to have made the less damaging call, despite the poll's inherent bias.

What if 50% of them is removed (remembering that a high percentage of those fifty percent are duplicates) and the other 50% are remodeled as premium until the release date. Would you be satisfied with that? It would please both parties. And among those 50% that were cut, the non-duplicates with time could be slowly remodeled and introduced as free DLC.

How about remodelling 50% of them and keeping the other 50% in-game under a standard car filter?

 

[Terronium-12]

Yes I definitely understand. I want the choice, just because people don't want their poor eyes getting hurt by standards shouldn't mean I get 500 cars wiped out. I'm sure pd will do a good job on implementing them.

Choices would be great in this situation, but ultimately the plan should have been to simply start anew.

Holding onto them for nostalgia's sake? Absolutely not.

 

[PIP_36]

No reason to take personally what you've wrote above. I disagree, keeping or ditching Standards are a major decision for GT7, specially since this is a next-gen title. It should be right up next to the upgraded sounds and offline content, but the sounds are already being sorted out, so there is no disagreements over here in the forum about that, after all, it's a common complaint.

As a sim racing fan, my order of priorities for GT7 would be as follows;

Online: stability, matchmaking, organised events for racing teams etc.

Single player: a career. A proper licenced or not Motorsport career with championships of more than one season.

Sounds: sounds that sound like racing cars are being driven.

Graphics: can't explain properly, but for me the GT tracks just look too cartoony, sterile or pretty, I loved the way the tracks looked in Shift 2.

User interface: makes me feel like a grown man playing a kids game, I don't like it, the whole feel of the game seems just too 'cutesy' to me. The sounds and little jingles don't help either.

Standard cars: I can take them or leave them, there's plenty of premiums to keep me busy and I've probably never driven more than 50 different cars ever, not bothered if they go or stay.

 

[sircarltonlotus]

What if 50% of them is removed, remembering that a high percentage of those fifty percent are duplicates, and the other 50% are remodeled as premium until the release date. Would you be satisfied with that? It would please both parties. And among those 50% that were cut, the non-duplicates with time could be slowly remodeled and introduced as free DLC.

I've got no problem with some of the duplicates being removed. The problem here is pd are not going to prioritise remodelling 2/300 standards. They have said the effort is on new premium cars. So, if that's the case, it's a choice between keeping standards or adding no new premiums and remodelling standards or removing them. Pd can't do both it would appear. So I want standards to stay

 

[djslofstra]

I'm such a Gran Turismo fan, when GT7 comes out on the PS4 I would most definitely the PS4 and GT7 immediately.
If it would look like this on the PS4 I would still buy it.

VTEC just kicked in yo!

Though I also hate standard cars an I'm disappointed they will probably be in GT7.

 

[Panoz]

Two things that I personally like PD to do on GT7 is combining the various duplicate cars (Skylines, Miatas, etc) into trim packages that players can choose and updating a few standard cars to premium on game updates (similar to the M4 interior being put in on a later update).

 

[MasamuneDate]

How about remodelling 50% of them and keeping the other 50% in-game under a standard car filter?

Why? I have already said those 50% of standards that would be cut could be reintroduced as premiums with time.
And also, do you enjoy all of those duplicates?

 

[mr_serious]

...stuff I agree with....

And to add to your point. For years PD have been telling us how dedicated they are to realism, to perfection, to simulation.

Actions speak louder than marketing speak I say!

[edit]
Example: The marketing statement on the back of the box that says "..to redefine the racing genre" actually translates to "we can't actually make a racing game, so we'll invent something else"

 

[Johnnypenso]

The gap from PS2 to PS3 ain't as big as PS1 to PS2. Also the gap from PS3 to 4 is virtually nonexistent in stills.

Unfortunately I don't play the game in still pictures. I've played PS4 games and the difference on a 55" TV is very dramatic. Standards can get by on the PS3 because the rest of the game isn't nearly as good visually as it will look on the PS4. On the PS4, they'll stand out much more than on the PS3.

 

[jimipitbull]

I think the main issue is not what we think, (we are the Die-Hards and Negative Nancy's so will have strong opinions on it one way or the other) but it is a valid argument to bring up the gaming media on this. Why? because the millions of buyers of the GT franchise are casuals and casuals are easily swayed. TokoTurismo was right earlier when he said that it would factor if the gaming press give a poor review (which they will if Kaz goes through with this).

The issue is psychological. Many modern gamers are lacking a practical element of imagination. The part that can view a low res image and interpret it as high res. A voluntary response which becomes involuntary. It stems from a lack of role play activities between the ages of 3 and 7, which stimulates particular areas of both hemispheres of the brain (I was usually a pirate, sometimes a jedi)

On the flip side, those lacking in this skill are likely to have more dextrous thumbs, mainly due to the abundance of mobile and touch screen device related activity at around the same age (3 -7)

 

[MasamuneDate]

Unfortunately I don't play the game in still pictures. I've played PS4 games and the difference on a 55" TV is very dramatic. Standards can get by on the PS3 because the rest of the game isn't nearly as good visually as it will look on the PS4. On the PS4, they'll stand out much more than on the PS3.

Just an example of a recent PS4 launch. And Sniper Elite isn't even a game regarded for its beautiful graphics.

 

[SCER]

Why? I have already said those 50% of standards that would be cut could be reintroduced as premiums with time.
And also, do you enjoy all of those duplicates?

I think that the fact that such specific models of car exist in a game is cool, but I wouldn't be adverse to losing some of them. That said, I don't think that half of the standards are made up of duplicates. And why have Kaz take the time to make those standards premium when he could be using those resources to introduce brand new cars to the series?

 

[sems4arsenal]

So standards have been there since GT5's release in 2010 (4 years ago) yet to this day, how many of them have been converted to premium. They could have easily using GT5's player data seen which were the most popular and converted them over time, but no the solution is always just keep them there no one will complain. You'd think after low reviews for GT6 they'd learn their lesson. All I have to say is I fear for GT's future the direction the game is headed isn't filling me with confidence. Ball in your field CARS

 

[MasamuneDate]

I think that the fact that such specific models of car exist in a game is cool, but I wouldn't be adverse to losing some of them. That said, I don't think that half of the standards are made up of duplicates. And why have Kaz take the time to make those standards premium when he could be using those resources to introduce brand new cars to the series?

How many brand new cars have him brought to GT6 so far? VGTs doesn't count as they're prototypes. Where's LaFerrari, McLaren P1, Porsche 908, or even cars that have been asked time and time again such as the E30 M3? Just what is Kaz doing with his time?

 

[mr_serious]

Yes I definitely understand. I want the choice, just because people don't want their poor eyes getting hurt by standards shouldn't mean I get 500 cars wiped out. I'm sure pd will do a good job on implementing them.

You might want to manage your expectations given PD's record on providing options to the player :/

 

[SCER]

How many brand new cars have him brought to GT6 so far? VGTs doesn't count as they're prototypes. Where's LaFerrari, McLaren P1, Porsche 908, or even cars that have been asked time and time again such as the E30 M3? Just what is Kaz doing with his time?

A valid question, and one which supports my argument that his time would be better devoted to the introduction of new cars, as it seems to be such a precious commodity.

 

[Organ-Donor]

Am I high or did I really just read that PD might be carrying over PS2 cars to PS4? Cars from over 10 years ago from ancient hardware staying in the newest most powerful cutting edge console. I'm speechless. What an absolute joke. I love GT but a lot of their bad decisions, stubbornness, unfinished work despite taking eons to develop, and the failure to stay with current times makes me really wish Forza wasn't exclusive.

 

[sircarltonlotus]

You might want to manage your expectations given PD's record on providing options to the player :/

I meant implementing standards, not the filter. That's up to people who don't want standards to try and convince pd to introduce a filter. I couldn't care less if they put a filter in or not.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yes I definitely understand. I want the choice, just because people don't want their poor eyes getting hurt by standards shouldn't mean I get 500 cars wiped out. I'm sure pd will do a good job on implementing them.

I've yet to see you explain why it's important to keep them rather than your emotional attachment to it like Linus to his blanket (Charlie Brown Reference).

Could you please give a more in depth understanding? Or is that really all you have to say on it, because if so then that's fine too nothing I can say against that.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Would I rather have standard BMW E46 M3, M3 CSL, M3 GTR, 2002 Turbo or V12 LMR, Or NO BMW E46 M3, M3 CSL, M3 GTR, 2002 Turbo or V12 LMR?

 

[MasamuneDate]

A valid question, and one which supports my argument that his time would be better devoted to the introduction of new cars, as it seems to be such a precious commodity.

He along PD need a wake-up call, not praise or indiference, otherwise they'll just keep stagnated.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The issue is psychological. Many modern gamers are lacking a practical element of imagination. The part that can view a low res image and interpret it as high res. A voluntary response which becomes involuntary. It stems from a lack of role play activities between the ages of 3 and 7, which stimulates particular areas of both hemispheres of the brain (I was usually a pirate, sometimes a jedi)

I've probably role played more than most people and perhaps you in the past 10 years. If it be stories/turn based, or mmo rpg the list goes on. The point is one shouldn't have to imagine a car looking like it should look because some people don't want to say negative things about it. You for example.

Also GT and others like it aren't a rpg so it makes no sense to have the mind set of it being one or treat it like one because saying a realistic critique isn't in your nature when talking about GT/PD.

 

[mr_serious]

I meant implementing standards, not the filter. That's up to people who don't want standards to try and convince pd to introduce a filter. I couldn't care less if they put a filter in or not.

What I fail to understand is this. You have GT6 (you probably have GT5 too?) So those standard cars are already available to you, in an environment where, whilst still out of place, are more fitting. You will still be able to drive them for as long as you want, when you no longer want to drive them disconnect your PS3, and sell the console & the game.

I loved GT1, to GT4, and so I was still playing them until 2 years ago (long after I bought the PS3). The only reason to hang on to such outdated assets is for marketing. If the actual cars are really that important from an historical point of view then they deserve to be rendered at PS4 quality.

 

[Brend]

Oh dear, game over PD.