Racism - Ignored?

[Swift]

You sure like tussling and debating with you. Swift I need to put a face to your pots put up a pic in the pic thread.

I'll consider it, after you respond to my post.

 

[Young_Warrior]

I'm sorry, but that's junk. I grew up in a 98% white school and if I got in an argument and we started saying racial things we BOTH got in trouble. Because that's how it should be. By saying the pakistani kid is "justified" because everyone else is white is even more of a racist view then the white kid calling him "paki"

Yes obviously if both of you wage jihad agaisnt one another then both of you should get in trouble but in life not everything is black and white and we dont know the exact circumstances as to why the teacher responded like she did.

If someone kept calling you a ***** and you punched them would you say its fair for you to be excluded from school?

 

[Swift]

Yes obviously if both of you wage jihad agaisnt one another then both of you should get in trouble but in life not everything is black and white and we dont know the exact circumstances as to why the teacher responded like she did.

If someone kept calling you a ***** and you punched them would you say its fair for you to be excluded from school?

I would say it was BOTH of our faults. I could've walked away(did that a lot) or just taken it, let them laugh and went on. But if I CHOSE to break the rules then I deserve punisment. I think the guy using racial slurs should get equal punishment for instigation, but it's still a choice as to how one reacts.

 

[Young_Warrior]

I rate you if that was me the first few times I would work but if one person kept doing it id tear them a new hole to breath from.

 

[ledhed]

Here's a racism test for you. A reality check . Its prom time . You know meet the family take pictures and send them to relitives etc. Your daughter brings home her date . Your white her date is a fine black fella . How do you react ? How does your family react ? Do they all get a prom picture ? If your not old enough to get your head around it put yourself into the position of being the guy or the girl bringing home the date . For asians just be Japenese bringing home a korean or Chines bringing home Japenese or Korean etc. for more fun and games look at the difference between how a male and female are treated for the decision .

There's no right or wgong here ..unless your reaction is a masacre or something equaly stupid. Its a good indication of where your heads aty AND more importantly where the people you know are at .

 

[Swift]

Ledhed: To respond to that. I don't care one bit about what color or race my son/daughter would bring home. But if he's a bum...forget about it!

 

[Danoff]

Here's a racism test for you. A reality check . Its prom time . You know meet the family take pictures and send them to relitives etc. Your daughter brings home her date . Your white her date is a fine black fella . How do you react ? How does your family react ? Do they all get a prom picture ? If your not old enough to get your head around it put yourself into the position of being the guy or the girl bringing home the date . For asians just be Japenese bringing home a korean or Chines bringing home Japenese or Korean etc. for more fun and games look at the difference between how a male and female are treated for the decision .

There's no right or wgong here ..unless your reaction is a masacre or something equaly stupid. Its a good indication of where your heads aty AND more importantly where the people you know are at .

While I admit that the above example is instructive, it's not without its flaws. We all have that relative or two who "just wouldn't understand." Our parents and gradnparents grew up in a different time - and it might just be best to let it slide until things get serious.

But there are other considerations. Perhaps you don't approve of interracial relationships because you think their children are at risk of skin problems. Perhaps you're disturbed a bit because even though you think native Americans are fine people, you just don't find them attractive.

Some parent's seriously take into consideration what their children's spouses look like as an indication of whether their grandkids will be cute.


I know all of this is a bit out there, but it's stuff that some people really think about.

 

[Famine]

If it's my daughter, I'm predisposed to hate whoever her bloke is up until (and possibly beyond) they get married, regardless of any other issue. It's my responsibility as a father.

 

[ledhed]

The whole point is almost everyone will have a different response . Everyone will react in a different way from friends to relatives to the people you will pass on the street . How they react will be a direct response to what they see. They will not see two people in the majority of cases. They will see a white and a black etc. and base their response on THAT .
Is that not a form of racism ? Even if its an " enlightened " response you STILL didnt seperate race from the equation . Could it be that racism is a natural response as long as you are aware of it and can still treat people the way you yourself want to be treated ?

 

[Grand Prix]

Almost all jokes come from some form of truth. That doesn't make them good jokes. Now, I talk racial jokes with my friends all the time. But ONLY with friends, never with people that I'm just meeting or an aquintance with.

Right, some form of truth, but probably not the truth.

I've told several Americans that I'm from Canada, and when I do they usually ask me if I live in an igloo in a serious kind of voice. (Except for the kind folks at the Summer NWGT meeting 👍 ) Maybe I over-react when I roll my eyes at those statements, but it makes you wonder if people truly believe the xenophobic comments they make. Do some people actually believe that most Frenchmen are smelly and that southern states Americans inbreed and eat pork rinds?

 

[Danoff]

The whole point is almost everyone will have a different response . Everyone will react in a different way from friends to relatives to the people you will pass on the street . How they react will be a direct response to what they see. They will not see two people in the majority of cases. They will see a white and a black etc. and base their response on THAT .
Is that not a form of racism ? Even if its an " enlightened " response you STILL didnt seperate race from the equation . Could it be that racism is a natural response as long as you are aware of it and can still treat people the way you yourself want to be treated ?

I guess that by acknowledging that there are ANY genetic differences between races is racist to an extent (ie: it recognizes the existance of race). But I think it's not necessarily about skin color so much as genetics... let me try to explain.

If you have blonde hair and blue eyes, and you pick a wife that has blonde hair and blue eyes - you're likely to have children with those characteristics. On the other hand you know if you marry someone with dark hair, your children may have those characteristics. The same is true with skin color.

So in those examples we're really only looking at genetic characteristics - not necessarly race specifically.

The observation that red haired people burn more easily in the sun is comparable to observing that black people tend to be more athletic (due to ancestors having to run from lions no doubt). These aren't really racially motivated so much as they are genetically motivated.

So I think that it is fine to acknowledge differences in skin color so long as its from a genetic probability point of view - rather than something we really don't know about (like intelligence level, or predisposition to violence, or something fuzzier like that).

 

[Swift]

So I think that it is fine to acknowledge differences in skin color so long as its from a genetic probability point of view - rather than something we really don't know about (like intelligence level, or predisposition to violence, or something fuzzier like that).

That's about it right there. We all KNOW that white men can't jump and black people have think lips. So what? There are a few white people that CAN jump and not all black people eat Watermelon and chicken all day.

I don't know. I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you worry to much about not being racist, you end up being even more racist(Affermative Action, Jesse Jackson, etc..)

 

[ledhed]

Al Sharpton wins . remember the Brawley incedent ?

 

[Young_Warrior]

I think that we as African people hold our destiny in our own hands and that we cant depend on hand outs to come up within the economy, but anybody with consousness can trace our habits back to slavery. Now, I know right away people would say oh thats such an old excuse but really and truley its not an excuse its the reality of our situation. If you trace our history or his story the civil rights movement was only 30 years ago. The effects of black oppression are astronomical. On the other hand african kids shouldnt be taught to use that as a reason to not do for self and try to stop the viscous cycle. The crack epidemic was something that was forced upon us like 20 years ago it is a known fact that the cia brought crack into the ghettos because they new we would use it as a way out and they new they would profit off of it. You can tell me im wrong all day but the fact is what im saying is true. Think about it man have any other race been oppressed in america like the blacks 30 years ago you didnt see whites only bathrooms no asians allowed no it was a systematic plan to keep blacks down to establish a system of classes, thats the american way. Next time your in a library pick up a book on american black history and if the book is acurate you will be able to see how a visous cycle was started right from the begining of slavery. I know other races were enslaved also but come on open up your eyes and look. Eh mr Black Negroe let me give you the step by step, we were enslaved for 400 plus years thats what put us at the bottom of the economic pile, then we were set free only to be place in segragated ghettos were there was no employment, no sufficient education, nothing, then finally after the civil rights movement we were granted some right like they let us sit at the front of the bus and s**t in there toilets, they set constitutions granting us the right to work were ever we want, bogus, do you think shortly after the movement that whites had a sudden change of heart, no, you cant be tought to hate a race of pepole so much then turn around and employ them right away regardless of a bill being passed, so blacks were still being opppressed under covers even in the early 80's then comes crack into the hood, thats like given cheese to a starving rat, thus begins the cycle of drug selling, and, using. Then comes hip hop which was once a progressive positive movement tell me why b.e.t or radio station run by white folks dont balance out the rap music they disply by plying some of the more positive rappers ther are a lot out there, its because violence in America sells and knowone give a **** about what its doing to our youth, do you think this is a time to be feeding our kids so much violence. Looks to me like a systematic **** up and the destiny of African are at stake. Look at it for yourself you dont see much positive black role model on t.v for us because it will never make it to the t.v screen y $$$$. We are not victims, we are not animals, and we are not violence natured, we once ruled the earth in our beautiful home called africa and politically we were sophisticated, we are origanators of many things that we are not credidted for like algebra, geometry, astronomy, all the konwlege that the freemasons use (the government) is from Egypt. One last thing after all we have been through tel me do you think the system has done all the can to brake the mental slavery, no. Bob Marley said only ourself can free our mind that is true but its going to take some more time, but soon we will see a revolution and an uprising of African power, its already in progress. Oh and negroe man were not negroes anymore we have already established our selves as our trueselfs Aricans, so read a book and come back to us. And 50 cents mama was a crack head dope selling lesbian he's a product of his environment what the **** do yall excpect, and still the man found a way out. How come white people dont complain about steven segal movies or have of the violence in the movie industry. I suggest renting Bowling for Columbine and you'll see how the perpetuate violence and Black kids are in such a bad position to be taking that in, Open your eyes!



Posted in response by someone to a subject about 50 cents new game in which people were blaming him and people like him for african american people problems.

 

[sukerkin]

Crikey Young Warrior .

If what you typed above is half accurate in regard to what Black-Americans believe to be true, then no wonder they give out what is perceived as a 'bad attitude'. Anyone would.

However, the history of slavery and it's effects is just that ... history. If it's not released and is instead seized upon as an excuse for actions perpetrated now then the 'problems' will never diminish.

I don't know quite how to express this without seeming offensive, so please bear in mind that I'm trying to put across an objective point here and end by asking an honest question.

A history of slavery is not unique to people of original African genetic extraction whose descendants now live in America. All races at one time or another during all periods or history have had experience of slavery and oppression.

As an Englishman, for example, the ancestors of my 'people' were the possessions of the Romans, the Vikings and the Normans, to name just three 'oppressors'. The only difference between that and the current situation for Black Americans is that those enslavements were much longer ago.

Given that and accepting that the principles are still the same, would it be logical for me to hold responsible for that slavery the Italian, Nordic or French people who are alive today? I don't think that it would.

So why is it acceptable for Black Skinned Americans to lambast and treat with hostility the White Skinned Americans that share the continent with them?

Diverging away from the direct issue of slavery, I note from what you wrote above that it is seen that marginalisation and exclusion is happening still today. If that is true then, in a society that is supposedly free and equal, that is unacceptable - altho' as a non-American it's probably equally unacceptable for me to voice such an opinion i.e. it's not for me to judge as I'm not part of the society (LOL, see how twisted things get when you try to discuss 'racism').

I do find particularly insidious the idea that an organised 'campaign' is going on to present an image of Black Americans as violent, racist and criminal. That sort of 'soft' propoganda is very hard to combat and if it goes on long enough will fix in everyones minds that that is really how 'those people' are.

That's especially true if financially poor but intelligent examples of 'those people' seize the opportunities extended to them by the media and collude in the propogation of that image (by which I refer to the music industry primarily of course). I don't blame them in the slightest for trying to improve their 'lot' but it doesn't help the cause of eradicating racism one bit.

Neither does talk of 'an uprising of African power', I'm sad to say. American culture is a mix of pretty much every other major nation in the world and altho' individual Americans might cherish their Irish, Dutch, Polish etc roots, you are all American's now. To speak of a section of that commonality 'rising up' (thus weakening the whole) wasn't acceptable in the 1960's and it's even less palatable forty years later.

Ah well, I guess time will tell how that particular wrinkle will unfold.

I'll shut up anyhow as I've lost track of my original thought i.e. refusing to let the past stay in the past simply poisons the present and provides a wonderful growth medium for racists of any skin colour .

 

[FoolKiller]

...tell me why b.e.t or radio station run by white folks dont balance out the rap music they disply by plying some of the more positive rappers ther are a lot out there...

Fact check:

BET founded and run by Robert L Johnson, who is not a white folk.

Here is the BET Corporate page with contact information at the bottom. Let them know what you think.


As for 50 Cent, I wouldn't call him a role model but he isn't solely to blame for the problems in the ghettos. However, I do feel that he appears to glorify that lifestyle. It was definitely a poor PR maneuver on Paramount's part to place a bulletin board for his new movie next to a preschool.




I realize this was a rant, but could you please use paragraphs next time? It was hard on my eyes. Thanks.

 

[Young_Warrior]

I didnt write what I posted above. Someone else did and I wanted to hear some views on what he had to say.

 

[Young_Warrior]

The think about racism is that its such a broad subject that it is impossible to sum it up in one post or even a whole thread. I could spend a couple of years writing about the effects and why it happens and there are so many different small reasons aswell but when but together its a monster.

One thing I can however say sukerkin is that yes we british used to be slaves to the romans etc but when that all ended people could get on with their lives as their oppressers were long gone but with african americans they live inbetween the oppressors still. I actually feel that the subject of racism as gone backwars from the lates 80' and 90's to what it is now.

Also the after effects are still visible today in certain enviroments and are still being passed down to younger generations but slowly being watered away. One example is in Jamaica the people are extremly scared of dogs. 90 out of 100 people will rant and rave at you to keep a hold of your dog and coware away as back when there was slavery dogs played a big part in controlling the slaves and although most of the people will have never been bitten by a dog their parents and grand parents will put that fear in them by their own experiences and what their parents and gran parents told them.

To this day I will hear like a white kid talk about possibily fighting some other boy when I heard this "people are only scared of him and think he can fight because hes black" and I also belive cause of this its holding back young black men as they attempt to live up to that sterotype. the cool gangsta playa pimps.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Fact check:

BET founded and run by Robert L Johnson, who is not a white folk.

Here is the BET Corporate page with contact information at the bottom. Let them know what you think.


As for 50 Cent, I wouldn't call him a role model but he isn't solely to blame for the problems in the ghettos. However, I do feel that he appears to glorify that lifestyle. It was definitely a poor PR maneuver on Paramount's part to place a bulletin board for his new movie next to a preschool.




I realize this was a rant, but could you please use paragraphs next time? It was hard on my eyes. Thanks.

Actually I live in the UK so we dont get B.E.T or yet anyway but I didn hear something about B.E.T being sold to some white guy and even the comic strip the boondsticks or something like that even make couple of comic strips about it.

 

[FoolKiller]

I didnt write what I posted above. Someone else did and I wanted to hear some views on what he had to say.

I believe that he knows that black people need to raise themselves up, but I feel that he still blames white people for slavery and perpetuating gang violence as being at the heart of the problem.

I'm of the opinion that the slavery issue has become over used. My family wasn't even in America at that time, as is the case with many white people. Gang violence occurs when someone chooses to go down that path and lead that life.

 

[FoolKiller]

Actually I live in the UK so we dont get B.E.T or yet anyway but I didn hear something about B.E.T being sold to some white guy and even the comic strip the boondsticks or something like that even make couple of comic strips about it.

Viacom/MTV bought BET but he still runs it and is on the board.

 

[Young_Warrior]

I believe that he knows that black people need to raise themselves up, but I feel that he still blames white people for slavery and perpetuating gang violence as being at the heart of the problem.

I'm of the opinion that the slavery issue has become over used. My family wasn't even in America at that time, as is the case with many white people. Gang violence occurs when someone chooses to go down that path and lead that life.

Well one could argue that its alot easier for a non american white person to intergrate within society than a black person.

I think that also a big part of the blame should be placed on the black fathers who dont care for their children. Quite frankly a woman is not capable to control and keep a boy out of trouble when he reaches 14 years and older unless shes one of those one off extraordinarily strong females. I know for a fact that If I didnt live with both my parents I would have run amok, and before I used to think of it as another excuse but now that im near enough a man I can see that If I wanted to do all the things I wanted to but couldnt cause my dad was there to put me in line Id probably be on the wrong track of life.

I also belive over the next 50 years things will get better as slavery becomes less of a vocal point and scapegoat and more and more black fathers rise to the challenge of caring for their children.

 

[Swift]

I also belive over the next 50 years things will get better as slavery becomes less of a vocal point and scapegoat and more and more black fathers rise to the challenge of caring for their children.

Anyone still using slavery as a scapegoat is simply looking for a handout. Now there is certainly racism that goes on in America. But for people to use it as an excuse means that they are too lazy to do anything else about it.

I know that in some situationns it doesn't matter what your credentials are, someone is going to prejudge you because of your skin color. Get over it!

 

[sukerkin]

I'm actually quite impressed with some of your views here, Young_Warrior.

I realised that in your big post above that you were quoting someone else and possibly did not hold precisely the same viewset but I'm glad to see that you have a clear head on some of the core matters.

One minor additional point about the enslavement of the British - the oppressors didn't leave per se, it's just that proper integration occurred (for example, everyone in the country has about a third of their genetic heritage from the Normans). Even when the Romans withdrew as their empire contracted, they'd still become quite widely embedded in the regional gene-pool. Likewise the Vikings were more often settlers than raiders and set-up house amongst those they'd initially assailed.

Darn ... I have to go; my lift home from work has arrived. Hope to talk later 👍.

 

[Danoff]

Quite frankly a woman is not capable to control and keep a boy out of trouble when he reaches 14 years and older unless shes one of those one off extraordinarily strong females.

What the hell are you talking about? A woman is not capable to control a boy when he reaches 14? I'm losing you quickly.

 

[Duke]

I would simply like to point out the fact that, historically, the vast majority of African slaves who were sold into the European/American slave trade were originally captured and enslaved by other Africans. Tribal wars had been settled for centuries if not millenia by the victors enslaving the losers.

This is not meant to justify the 19th-century Southern American slave economy; just meant to point out something that is frequently overlooked in blaming everything on rich white Americans.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Anyone still using slavery as a scapegoat is simply looking for a handout.

Slavery still impacts our society today. It's not a scapegoat -- it's reality.

Now there is certainly racism that goes on in America. But for people to use it as an excuse means that they are too lazy to do anything else about it.

Racism has a significant impact on employment and housing. Sure there are lazy people out there looking for a handout, but it is not wise to ignore the impact that racism continues to have on our society.

I know that in some situationns it doesn't matter what your credentials are, someone is going to prejudge you because of your skin color. Get over it!

So because it's going to happen anyway, we should just get over it?

 

[///M-Spec]

I'll shut up anyhow as I've lost track of my original thought

Please don't. That was one of the best posts I've read all week on GTP. 👍


M

 

[Swift]

Slavery still impacts our society today. It's not a scapegoat -- it's reality.

It's history. Do we look at all germans as nazi's just becase they had a bad time once? I'm not saying we shouldn't learn from it, but dang. It was over 150 years ago. I'm not trying to trivalize it, but at the same time, we can't just claim, "Slavery messed up my life". It's a coppout.

Racism has a significant impact on employment and housing. Sure there are lazy people out there looking for a handout, but it is not wise to ignore the impact that racism continues to have on our society.

Uh...I didn't ignore it at all if you look at my post.

So because it's going to happen anyway, we should just get over it?

No, it's reality and it shouldn't be. But just saying, "The man has me down" and "I can get anything from whitey" doesn't help anyone do anything.

Of course there are ugly forms of racisim in America, but again. We can work against it, or we can just wuss out and let it happen to us. I'm going with choice A. I'm going to get over it and not hold each person that looks different from me responsible for what happened in my life.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

It's history. Do we look at all germans as nazi's just becase they had a bad time once?

No.

I'm not saying we shouldn't learn from it, but dang. It was over 150 years ago. I'm not trying to trivalize it, but at the same time, we can't just claim, "Slavery messed up my life". It's a coppout.

I'm not saying that slavery should be used as a scapegoat... but we cannot ignore its effect on society today. I agree, using the "slavery messed up my life" rap is a poor excuse, but that does not mean that we should ignore (or as you put it trivialize) it.

Uh...I didn't ignore it at all if you look at my post.

I read your post, but that particular comment was not directed towards you. It was a general statement -- sorry if I made it sound otherwise.

No, it's reality and it shouldn't be. But just saying, "The man has me down" and "I can get anything from whitey" doesn't help anyone do anything.

I agree.

Of course there are ugly forms of racisim in America, but again. We can work against it, or we can just wuss out and let it happen to us. I'm going with choice A. I'm going to get over it and not hold each person that looks different from me responsible for what happened in my life.

Working against it, and getting over it are two separate things in my opinion. Maybe that's why I misunderstood what you were saying... To me, "working against it" means acknowledging that it continues to have an effect on our society and fighting against it. "Getting over it" on the other hand (again, in my opinion) means that because slavery ended 150 years ago, so did any and all of its negative effects; because de jure segregation ended 50 years ago, so did any and all of its negative effects.