Racism - Ignored?

[MrktMkr1986]

I have experienced it. My sister especially has been a major victim of racism. She wanted to go to a certain publicly funded college as long as I can remember. But when it came time to get in, she was essentially turned away because of the color of her skin. Of course they had other "official" reasons, but that was basically the reason.

It's very frustrating to deal with racism, especially from an institution that you paid taxes to. I'd bet I've experienced more racism than you have.

I'm sorry to hear about the circumstances, and I agree with the fact that because everyone paid the taxes for it, everyone should have the opportunity to attend, but you're still doing it. Affirmative action is not racist. My first year in high school was spent in a [de facto] segregated school (and that's just one example). The circumstances that led up to school segregation? The racist actions (or in this case inaction) of city legislators during the early 1980s. That is racism.

 

[sukerkin]

OK, now if you would've said hip hop music or some other form of current entertainment, I would've agreed with you. But in the case of a book/movie like Roots, it's simply wrong. That is a look into the saga of an American family. It's history and the way things were.

I really don't want to disagree with you, my friend, but there is quite a difference between 'family stories' and actual history. This is not to imply any deliberate 'dramatising' or invention in the received saga of the family. It's simply that it's anecdotal. In my own family, there are tales of previous generations which are perceived as truth but I wouldn't call them 'history' ... garrgh ... flaps hands helplessly ... I appear to have lost my ability to make a point ... I'll leave it .

If people get upset about it then that's great! The challenge is what do they do with that anger? Do they work harder to breakdown the stupidity of racism or do they just stay angry and blame everything on the man?

The reason I have a problem with what you said here is that you put history and hip hop on the same field and they don't even belong in the same zip code. I ALWAYS get extremely angry when I look at historic happenings like Roots, Malcolm X and other documentaries that go into the travesties that this country has committed. But it doesn't make me feel superior or inferior to anyone on basis of their skin tone.

.

I entirely agree.

Just to elaborate a touch on one small part of that; historical perspective and analysis is reliant upon mutually supportive and documented sources. As such, I'm a bit puzzled why you think I was making some sort of equation between history and racially divisive hip-hop when I made no mention at all of the latter? I've obviously dropped what we term 'a clanger' somewhere along the way (not having read all of this thread).

While it was true that some poor white people had it worse then slaves. But do you know why? Because the slaves had filled the majority of the jobs that the poor whites would have taken. So their extreme poverty was a product of the society directly.

I think I said as much, Swift - or at least that was part of what I was trying to say.

The challenge is that we are ALL free people. So we can't possibly understand what it's like to not have our freedoms. Hence, there is very little point at saying that being a slave with some food but NO chance of being free is better then starving and being free with SOME chance of bettering your condition.

Once again, I have to say that I agree.

As such, I'm a little dismayed to have the feeling that I've been hauled up before class and given a telling off.

 

[Swift]

I really don't want to disagree with you, my friend, but there is quite a difference between 'family stories' and actual history. This is not to imply any deliberate 'dramatising' or invention in the received saga of the family. It's simply that it's anecdotal. In my own family, there are tales of previous generations which are perceived as truth but I wouldn't call them 'history' ... garrgh ... flaps hands helplessly ... I appear to have lost my ability to make a point ... I'll leave it .

But the story of Alex haley's family is true. He had the paper to prove it(state side). So would that not constitute it as a historical account. Granted all dialogue and everything can't be word for word. But it is historical none the less.

I entirely agree.

Cool

Just to elaborate a touch on one small part of that; historical perspective and analysis is reliant upon mutually supportive and documented sources. As such, I'm a bit puzzled why you think I was making some sort of equation between history and racially divisive hip-hop when I made no mention at all of the latter? I've obviously dropped what we term 'a clanger' somewhere along the way (not having read all of this thread).

Well, you just said "media" and that includes a lot of different things. I was just trying to get more specific about the types and intentions of said media. Not throwing a direct shot at you.

I think I said as much, Swift - or at least that was part of what I was trying to say.

I think you did too, I just said it again.

Once again, I have to say that I agree.

As such, I'm a little dismayed to have the feeling that I've been hauled up before class and given a telling off.

Don't be dismayed, I'm not mad or anything. I just wanted to give what you said some focus. That's all.

 

[Young_Warrior]

I have experienced it. My sister especially has been a major victim of racism. She wanted to go to a certain publicly funded college as long as I can remember. But when it came time to get in, she was essentially turned away because of the color of her skin. Of course they had other "official" reasons, but that was basically the reason.

It's very frustrating to deal with racism, especially from an institution that you paid taxes to. I'd bet I've experienced more racism than you have.

To be honest Im not sure if Id see that as racism but more of discrimination. My taxes get spoent on a whole load of things that I dont benifit from such as free travel for everyone under 16. Or 16-18 years olds getting payed by the government to attend school or college depending on the amount their parents earn.

 

[ledhed]

I'm sorry to hear about the circumstances, and I agree with the fact that because everyone paid the taxes for it, everyone should have the opportunity to attend, but you're still doing it. Affirmative action is not racist. My first year in high school was spent in a [de facto] segregated school (and that's just one example). The circumstances that led up to school segregation? The racist actions (or in this case inaction) of city legislators during the early 1980s. That is racism.

Affirmative action is a plague on all our houses . Let it die , its had its moment .

 

[Danoff]

To be honest Im not sure if Id see that as racism but more of discrimination.

Dictionary.com definition #2 for racist
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

...

 

[Young_Warrior]

I have experienced it. My sister especially has been a major victim of racism. She wanted to go to a certain publicly funded college as long as I can remember. But when it came time to get in, she was essentially turned away because of the color of her skin. Of course they had other "official" reasons, but that was basically the reason.

It's very frustrating to deal with racism, especially from an institution that you paid taxes to. I'd bet I've experienced more racism than you have.

To be honest Im not sure if Id see that as racism but more of discrimination.

 

[Swift]

To be honest Im not sure if Id see that as racism but more of discrimination.

YW, what are you doing? Why would you post the exact same thing twice?

Dictionary.com definition #2 for racist
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

Danoff just posted the very definition of racism IS discrimination due to race. So your statement is moot.

 

[Young_Warrior]

So is discrimation then always racist?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

So is discrimation then always racist?

Absolutely not. Discrimination can be sexist as well -- which is why Affirmative Action is not "racist". It's arguably discriminatory, but it is certainly not racist. Affirmative action does not promote race over qualification.

 

[Danoff]

So is discrimation then always racist?

Yes, discrimination based on skin color is always racist.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Yes, discrimination based on skin color is always racist.

That's not what he asked.

 

[TsLeng]

To me racism has many causes.

-Religion: People of the same religion flock together. And when the said religion is interpreted wrongly(or the religion encourages the 'only my god is the real god, all others can F off) those devootess tend to look down on other religions and this is a kind of racism(not really 'racism' more of 'religionism?' )

-Race: The essence of racism. Same colour, same group. And because there are always stereotypes on different races, often bad, People of different races uses these to make themselves feel superior. eg A chinese says a malay is lazy in my country because a lot of malays are once lazy during the days when we are colonised.(or you could say contented and carefree) Even thought it may hold true, there are always exception and one should not apply stereotypes.

-Wealth: Rich people look down on poor people and the poor hates the rich. This oftens becomes racism if both sides are of different races. At least it happens quite often in my country.

-upbringing/education: It doesn't helps if the 1st word your parents teaches you is racist like, 'stupid indian boy' or 'fat malay pig'..... teachers play an important part too.


These are basically the main causes of racism in my country.

A little about racism in my country:
Racism has become increasingly problematic here becase of reigion(islamic extremist) and politicians using the race card for political mileage.

It also doesn't helps that we have a policy of subsidising a certain race which happen to be the MAJORITY race (think about it, minority supporting majority) in matters such as education, quotas in government tenders......
There is even a totally absurd law about only having the malays being able to open a company importing cars(to import cars, a company must have majority malay stake)
All these as a way to help the malays catch up economically to the substantially more wealthy chinse comunity.

But the racism comes into play in this issue is that there are still poor chinese and indians around in the country and the govenrment is only helphing the malays. So this is racism, and very bad at that.

In conclusion, racism suxxs big time, and coming next elections, when im able to vote, I know who to vote for

 

[Danoff]

That's not what he asked.

I know.

 

[Swift]

So is discrimation then always racist?

Is every Chevy a vette? Nope, but every vette IS a chevy. See the difference?

 

[Young_Warrior]

Another form of racism is looking out for your people and putting them before anyone else. Might not sound like racism in simple terms but when seen as a world picture its very different matter.

 

[Swift]

Another form of racism is looking out for your people and putting them before anyone else. Might not sound like racism in simple terms but when seen as a world picture its very different matter.

I assume when you say "your people" you mean people of the same color?

 

[Young_Warrior]

Well it used to be but now with the big intregation of ethniciticieseseses (SP) in a country its more of a country thing than a skin colour thing but some countries are still very much 99.99999% white/black/asian/eskimo and in those there will be more severe negative effects on personal racism as countries contend with each other.

I think that amuses me is that people say terrorists are not freedom fighters but religious fanatics well so is bush going by a article I have sitting here by me. Bush- "God told me to invade Iraq". Isnt that nice hes just as bad as bad as the terrosists who blow themselves up.

 

[Swift]

I think that amuses me is that people say terrorists are not freedom fighters but religious fanatics well so is bush going by a article I have sitting here by me. Bush- "God told me to invade Iraq". Isnt that nice hes just as bad as bad as the terrosists who blow themselves up.

The difference is that Bush didn't say "God told me to kill Iraqi's indescriminantly and myself with them." God doesn't give people instructions for suicide.

 

[FoolKiller]

I think that amuses me is that people say terrorists are not freedom fighters but religious fanatics well so is bush going by a article I have sitting here by me. Bush- "God told me to invade Iraq". Isnt that nice hes just as bad as bad as the terrosists who blow themselves up.

What article is that? I just read the BBC and Guardian articles. Originally teh statement came from palestinian press in transcripts from a meeting with Bush, but Palestinian leadership refused to confirm those statements. Now it is being quoted by an official in a British documentary. You forgot to mention that is a quote directly from Nabil Shaath, Palestinian Foreign Minister, or that the Palestinian Prime Minister said that Bush said, "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state." A completely different statement and the prime minister didn't mention the "God told me to Invade Iraq" comment.

By the way, that is a three week old story.



EDIT: What did that have to do with this thread?

 

[Swift]

EDIT: What did that have to do with this thread?

Excellent question.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Lapse of concentration im sorry guys. Hell I havent even read the article.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Seeing as the racism n N.O thread was closed I thought I would post this here. Im sure many of you will have already seen this but funnily enough I havent until now.

Id say that this just adds to the overwhelming evidence that there was plenty of racism in N.O
Click Here




And then theres this.

Abort all black babies and cut crime, says Republican

Dan Glaister in Los Angeles
Saturday October 1, 2005
The Guardian


George Bush has distanced himself from comments made by a leading Republican crusader on moral values who declared that one way to reduce the crime rate in the US would be to "abort black babies".
Speaking on his daily radio show, William Bennett, education secretary under Ronald Reagan and drugs czar under the first George Bush, said: "If you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose; you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down."

He went on to qualify his comments, which were made in response to a hypothesis that linked the falling crime rate to a rising abortion rate. Aborting black babies, he continued, would be "an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down".
The comments brought condemnation from all sides. The White House press secretary, Scott McClellan, said: "The president believes the comments were not appropriate."

Democrats called for Mr Bennett to withdraw his comments, and for his radio show to be dropped. "Republicans, Democrats and all Americans of goodwill should denounce this statement, should distance themselves from Mr Bennett," said Jesse Jackson. "And the private sector should not support Mr Bennett's radio show or his comments on the air."

Mr Bennett subsequently defended his words, saying that it should not be taboo to talk about race and crime. "There was a lot of discussion about race and crime in New Orleans," he told ABC news. "There was discussion - a lot of it wrong - but nevertheless, media jumping on stories about looting and shooting, and roving gangs and so on.

"There's no question this is on our minds," he added. "What I do on our show is talk about things that people are thinking ... we don't hesitate to talk about things that are touchy. I'm sorry if people are hurt, I really am. But we can't say this is an area of American life [and] public policy that we're not allowed to talk about - race and crime."

Mr Bennett served as chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities under Reagan from 1981-85, and as secretary of education from 1985-88. He became "drug czar" under the first President Bush in 1989.

Since leaving government in 1990, Mr Bennett has built a career as an author and public figure promoting conservative values. He has written or co-authored a string of highly successful books including five on virtues and faith for children and young people.

But his image was tainted by revelations two years ago that he had a multi-million dollar gambling habit, spending hours in casinos in Las Vegas. Reports at the time estimated that he had lost $8m (£4.5m) in 10 years. He responded that he had won more than he had lost.His most recent books include, The Death of Outrage: Bill Clinton and the Assault on American Ideals; and Why We Fight: Moral Clarity and the War on Terrorism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1582356,00.html

 

[Swift]

I remember that. But it was taken out of context. I remember HEARING it and it sounded like he was being sarcastic. But of course, if you say something like that, there's no chance that someone will not take it the wrong way.

 

[DJ-CiviC]

I should be in jail for being anti-racism... Everytime I heard somebody say something about black people I just run over him and starts to give a ****load and push him. Chances are, my friends are always there to stop me for doing anything worst than that...

Racism ??? Not ignored...

 

[FoolKiller]

Seeing as the racism n N.O thread was closed I thought I would post this here. Im sure many of you will have already seen this but funnily enough I havent until now.

Id say that this just adds to the overwhelming evidence that there was plenty of racism in N.O
Click Here




And then theres this.

Abort all black babies and cut crime, says Republican

Article

From the BBC article about the man being beaten:

Correspondents say that although the police spokesman denied race was an issue, the fact that Mr Davis was African-American and the officers were mostly white may result in accusations of racism.

What does that mean? I saw the video and if I recall they were all white. Was there a black officer?


And the Bill Bennett issue was taken out of context. He was trying to make a point in a debate and was obviously not being serious. Anyone who knows Bill Bennett's policies knows that he is against any kind of abortion.

 

[Swift]

And the Bill Bennett issue was taken out of context. He was trying to make a point in a debate and was obviously not being serious. Anyone who knows Bill Bennett's policies knows that he is against any kind of abortion.

And that is why I get so annoyed at the media. They just put a spin on things. They generally don't care which way they spin it. As long as it gets people to read/watch/listen.

I saw the tape of MR Davis' arrest. I think the officers did ok until they just left him lying there on the ground in his own blood. The should've at least been able to sit up or lay on his back AFTER the handcuffs were on.

 

[Kent]

Young Warrior,

Do you live down here in my state?
Do you know what it's like down here?
Have you ever been here?
Have you ever dealt with the racism down here?
Have you ever dealt with the racism from both sides when you were down here?
Have you ever listened to a white, union worker from Louisiana?... You know they aren't exactly the bright shining examples of democrates that you need for this sort of talk. In fact, they are the antithesis of your partisan accusations of racism.

Well,
I bet you come down here all the time just to fight the man.

Hell, I bet you even come down here for elections just to make sure those republicans don't get into office (which you had done a good job with until these last elections).

Then again, wait a second...

How could this be?

How is it possible that my state, this strong hold of the democratic party, could be as racist as it is?

I mean, I thought "dems" weren't racist but here I am living day to day watching white racist democrates and black racist democrates.

I thought republicans were the racist!
Well, I thought that until I moved to Louisiana.

Maybe it's the water?

 

[Young_Warrior]

Does it matter where racism exists?
Or would you prefer it if I post up some racist on goings from the UK?

 

[Danoff]

Why is it that when white police officers are rough in the arrest of a black man it's always racist? Those same white police officers were probably rough arresting some whtie trash dude - but that video doesn't get shot, or doesn't make the news.

If they had a history of racism, say they were members of the KKK or something. Then maybe the case would be open and shut.

As for the "abort black babies and reduce crime", the guy was explaining that that kind of reasoning was horrible. He was using that as a bad example of how to think and pointing to the absurdity of the statement.