Racism - Ignored?

[JacktheHat]

Isn't cracker a reference to drug-users?

 

[FoolKiller]

The Cosby show is not a good example. The characters in the show where not representative of average black americans and did little to break-down preconceived prejudices. It was more about 'fitting in' than acceptance.

I think that was the point, considering that is what Bill Cosby has been practically ranting about lately. If you want to be accepted by society you need to play by the rules and fit into society. His issue is that too many minorities are yelling that society needs to change and hand them what they want. He thinks the individual needs to change their attitude and behavior and do what society says you need to do in order to fit in and succeed.

Isn't cracker a reference to drug-users?

I have never heard it used that way. I have always heard it used as a derogatory term toward white people. Are you thinking of crack head or crack whore? Those are terms for drug users.

Cracker is also a delicious snack that goes well with salads, cheese, processed meats, peanut butter, and soups.

 

[JacktheHat]

I think that was the point, considering that is what Bill Cosby has been practically ranting about lately. If you want to be accepted by society you need to play by the rules and fit into society. His issue is that too many minorities are yelling that society needs to change and hand them what they want. He thinks the individual needs to change their attitude and behavior and do what society says you need to do in order to fit in and succeed.

Well, that's Bill Cosby all over and even more reason why he isn't a suitable role-model/spokesperson.

I have never heard it used that way. I have always heard it used as a derogatory term toward white people. Are you thinking of crack head or crack whore? Those are terms for drug users.

In the UK, a cracker is a crack-head. I know it's different in the US but we don't have the same slave/poor-labourer related colloquealisms (sp?)

 

[FoolKiller]

Well, that's Bill Cosby all over and even more reason why he isn't a suitable role-model/spokesperson.

How is playing by society's rules and avoiding drugs, crime, whining a bad role model? How does telling someone to learn proper English, study hard in school, and dress appropriately make someone a bad role model? How does telling a person that sitting around and complainnig make a person a bad role model?

So is any black person who studied hard, went to college, got a degree, wears a suit to work, and now makes lots of money a bad role model? What is a good role model? Diddy? Kanye West? 50 Cent? Kobe Bryant? Shaq? Terrel Owens?

While musicians and sports stars also got rich without playing by the rules of society they got rich on talent and not everyone has musical or physical talent (or the image the record company wants to sell). Who is a role model for your average, everyday guy growing up in a predominantly poor and black neighborhood?

 

[JacktheHat]

How is playing by society's rules and avoiding drugs, crime, whining a bad role model?

It depends on the society. If you believe America is a multi-cultural utopia with no racial problems then fine. If not, you need to stand up and make sure your voice is heard.

So is any black person who studied hard, went to college, got a degree, wears a suit to work, and now makes lots of money a bad role model?

Getting rich may be an aspiration for most people but that's not how you improve society. Regardless of ethnicity, I would not consider anyone who just cared about their own well-being a positive role-model.

While musicians and sports stars also got rich without playing by the rules of society they got rich on talent and not everyone has musical or physical talent (or the image the record company wants to sell). Who is a role model for your average, everyday guy growing up in a predominantly poor and black neighborhood?

The people in their communities who are standing up for them.

 

[FoolKiller]

It depends on the society. If you believe America is a multi-cultural utopia with no racial problems then fine. If not, you need to stand up and make sure your voice is heard.



Getting rich may be an aspiration for most people but that's not how you improve society. Regardless of ethnicity, I would not consider anyone who just cared about their own well-being a positive role-model.



The people in their communities who are standing up for them.

Have you seen the people in their communities who are standing up for them? They complain about how society is hodling them down and there needs to be changes. They make false or misinformed claims about taxes, say that taxpayers should build them all houses, and accuse all the police (even the black ones) of being racist. When a drug dealer gets shot by a cop it is unjust, despite the fact that the drug dealer was firing an automatic weapon at the cop.

These same people never once speak out against the "black on black crimes" The city I work in is having a record murder rate this year, most of which is gang related, but these community "role models" aren't telling them to put down their guns and go to school, get a job, or go home to their families.

These people help to increase the reverse racism that Danoff has been talking about. They stand up next to gangsta rappers and talk about the man holding them down and how no one ever gives them a chance. They tell the rest of society to give to them but never tell the community to work with society.

Unless you think whining your way to another welfare check is a proper way to live these people are not good role models, at least not in America.

People like Bill Cosby who tell people to get up, go to school, get a job, talk proper, dress proper, and learn to respect themselves and each other are, in my opinion, good role models for people of all races. They talk about taking personal responsibility for your life and quit trying to blame others. That will get you much farther than trying to blame someone else.

 

[JacktheHat]

Have you seen the people in their communities who are standing up for them? They complain about how society is hodling them down and there needs to be changes. They make false or misinformed claims about taxes, say that taxpayers should build them all houses, and accuse all the police (even the black ones) of being racist. When a drug dealer gets shot by a cop it is unjust, despite the fact that the drug dealer was firing an automatic weapon at the cop.

These same people never once speak out against the "black on black crimes" The city I work in is having a record murder rate this year, most of which is gang related, but these community "role models" aren't telling them to put down their guns and go to school, get a job, or go home to their families.

These people help to increase the reverse racism that Danoff has been talking about. They stand up next to gangsta rappers and talk about the man holding them down and how no one ever gives them a chance. They tell the rest of society to give to them but never tell the community to work with society.

I don't know who you are talking about but they are obviously not role-models. I'm referring to people who stand up in their communities, get involved with councils, youth-clubs etc.

Unless you think whining your way to another welfare check is a proper way to live these people are not good role models, at least not in America.

People like Bill Cosby who tell people to get up, go to school, get a job, talk proper, dress proper, and learn to respect themselves and each other are, in my opinion, good role models for people of all races. They talk about taking personal responsibility for your life and quit trying to blame others. That will get you much farther than trying to blame someone else.

I'm sure people said similar things before the abolishment of slavery, they certainly did in pre-1939 Germany...

 

[///M-Spec]

I'm sure people said similar things before the abolishment of slavery, they certainly did in pre-1939 Germany...

Right. Because a discussion on what consitutes a positive role model has everything to do with slavery and the Holcaust...?

After all, anyone who says you should work hard and become well educated must do so because he secretly wants to gas some Jews.

Umm. Earth to Jack.. hello?


M

 

[Duke]

People like Bill Cosby who tell people to get up, go to school, get a job, talk proper, dress proper, and learn to respect themselves and each other are, in my opinion, good role models for people of all races. They talk about taking personal responsibility for your life and quit trying to blame others. That will get you much farther than trying to blame someone else.

Hear, hear.

Society is the conglomerate average of all people in it. If you want to fit in to society, you have to change yourself to fit that picture. If you want to rebel, fine - I'm all for individualism in every way. But you can't rebel against society and then complain that society is not giving you what you want.

Bill Cosby is black - so why does that make him a bad role model for blacks, or people of any race? Is he somehow not black enough?! What would make him "black enough"? And what would make him "black enough" without reinforcing racial stereotypes? Everybody agrees that racial stereotyping is bad - so when there is a black man that doesn't fit the stereotype, why is he getting criticized for not being black enough?

Answer that.

Look at GTPlanet as a microcosm - time after time, the well-known users voted "most repsected" are the ones who are articulate, intelligent, and mostly polite. They've made a place for themsleves by fitting in to this little society. Others get attention for rebellion, but it's usually bad attention, and outside of a few close friends (if any) they rarely have much support.

I'm not saying we should crush individualism - I'm a Libertarian, in case anybody on this board didn't know that yet. But if you're trying to get along with the maximum number of people, you need to make yourself acceptable to the maximum number of people. That's not oppression, nor is it rocket science.

I'm sure people said similar things before the abolishment of slavery, they certainly did in pre-1939 Germany...

That's the biggest crock of crap I've heard in quite some time. Possibly since your last post.

How can you possibly relate Bill Cosby telling people they need to improve themselves and take repsonsibility for themselves to the Nazis saying that everything bad is the fault of Jews and homosexuals and Romanies?

 

[JacktheHat]

Right. Because a discussion on what consitutes a positive role model has everything to do with slavery and the Holcaust...?

After all, anyone who says you should work hard and become well educated must do so because he secretly wants to gas some Jews.

Earth to Jack.. hello?


M

I think the word your vocabulary is missing is 'conformity'.

 

[JacktheHat]

Hear, hear.

Society is the conglomerate average of all people in it. If you want to fit in to society, you have to change yourself to fit that picture. If you want to rebel, fine - I'm all for individualism in every way. But you can't rebel against society and then complain that society is not giving you what you want.

Bill Cosby is black - so why does that make him a bad role model for blacks, or people of any race? Is he somehow not black enough?! What would make him "black enough"? And what would make him "black enough" without reinforcing racial stereotypes? Everybody agrees that racial stereotyping is bad - so when there is a black man that doesn't fit the stereotype, why is he getting criticized for not being black enough?

Answer that.

Look at GTPlanet as a microcosm - time after time, the well-known users voted "most repsected" are the ones who are articulate, intelligent, and mostly polite. They've made a place for themsleves by fitting in to this little society. Others get attention for rebellion, but it's usually bad attention, and outside of a few close friends (if any) they rarely have much support.

I'm not saying we should crush individualism - I'm a Libertarian, in case anybody on this board didn't know that yet. But if you're trying to get along with the maximum number of people, you need to make yourself acceptable to the maximum number of people. That's not oppression, nor is it rocket science.

I'm saying Bill Cosby is not a good role-model, irregardless of ethnicity.

 

[///M-Spec]

I think the word your vocabulary is missing is 'conformity'.

I think the concept missing in your brain is 'relation'.


M

 

[Famine]

In the UK, a cracker is a crack-head. I know it's different in the US but we don't have the same slave/poor-labourer related colloquealisms (sp?)

Which part of the UK? I've never heard it used that way.

Cracker is either adopted US derogatory slang for a white person, or someone/thing who is really good/attractive (Frank Carson - "It's a cracker!").

 

[Duke]

I'm saying Bill Cosby is not a good role-model, irregardless of ethnicity.

Well, then we have nothing more to say to each other.

 

[JacktheHat]

I think the concept missing in your brain is 'relation'.


M

Ok, I'll just get my spoon so I can feed you.


-In pre-WWII Germany there were people who didn't like the way their country was being run, they didn't agree with anti-semitism, fascism etc.

-Before the abolition of slavery there were people who didn't agree with the concept.

-At both of these times there were also people saying things like 'don't rock the boat', 'you need to fit in' etc.

 

[JacktheHat]

Which part of the UK? I've never heard it used that way.

Cracker is either adopted US derogatory slang for a white person, or someone/thing who is really good/attractive (Frank Carson - "It's a cracker!").

London.

 

[Swift]

I'm saying Bill Cosby is not a good role-model, irregardless of ethnicity.

Can you name a good role model? of any race?

 

[///M-Spec]

Ok, I'll just get my spoon so I can feed you.

No wait. You mean 'let me get my spoon so I can conform you to my thinking', right? And what if I disagree? Are you going to round me up and send me to a gulag?

Yes, let's take a simple message and take it to the most ridiculous extreme possible so we can make a straw man out of it. Straw men are easy to attack and require little more than a knee jerk firing of a single synapse.

Let me help you with your next post. Take another cheap shot at how dense I must be because my mind is unwilling to make the connection that Bill Cosby is secretly a Nazi.

But whatever you do, don't actually engage the main argument. If you ignore it, it will go away. See the sticky at the top of the forum.

This is Classic 👍


M

 

[JacktheHat]

No wait. You mean 'let me get my spoon so I can conform you to my thinking', right? And what if I disagree? Are you going to round me up and send me to a gulag?

Yes, let's take a simple message and take it to the most ridiculous extreme possible so we can make a straw man out of it. Straw men are easy to attack and require little more than a knee jerk firing of a single synapse.

Let me help you with your next post. Take another cheap shot at how dense I must be because my mind is unwilling to make the connection that Bill Cosby is secretly a Nazi.

But whatever you do, don't actually engage the main argument. If you ignore it, it will go away. See the sticky at the top of the forum.

This is Classic 👍


M

Okay, breaking it down into easy to swallow parts - just for you...


Bill Cosby is saying you need to fit in society, in other words 'conform'.

Just as in the examples I was stating.

 

[FoolKiller]

Ok, I'll just get my spoon so I can feed you.


-In pre-WWII Germany there were people who didn't like the way their country was being run, they didn't agree with anti-semitism, fascism etc.

Make that WWI and you have why half my family is in America.

-Before the abolition of slavery there were people who didn't agree with the concept.

-At both of these times there were also people saying things like 'don't rock the boat', 'you need to fit in' etc.

So how is saying get a job and go to school anything remotely like saying kill and enslave people? How is saying to support yourself instead of whining that no one has given it to you the same as saying you should gas a few million peopel and be happy with it.

Conformity can be good or bad depending on the situation. As a person considered a nerd and a geek in high school I can tell you that studying hard and trying hard in school is not conforming at that time. Running around being promiscuous, using drugs, and drinking would have been fitting in. I chose to be made fun of and risk threats of violence from bullies so that I could get into college and get a job with good pay and benefits instead of choosing to be one of the cool kids.

By not conforming as a kid I have now conformed as an adult. I see the cool kids from high school every now and then. The worst of the bunch have three kids and are a cashier at a grocery store.

Was it good to conform in school? No. Is it good to conform now? Yes. If teh Us started slavery back up or began committing genocide would it be good to conform then? No.

Comparing high school to Hitler Youth is a bad comparison seeing as how they have nothing to do with each other. The only non-conformists that can expect to do well in today's society are entrepreneurs, and only a few of them can succesfully pull it off.

People like Bill Cosby are telling them how to get what they want from society, not to join in genocide. The difference is blatantly obvious.

 

[JacktheHat]

Can you name a good role model? of any race?

Mother Theresa of Calcutta is one...

 

[kragbees]

In South Africa you would be called a 'White Ass'...

Or a dutchman ... and yes the k word in Afrikaans is certainly the killer of all insults ...

 

[Swift]

Mother Theresa of Calcutta is one...

A woman that never married had no family and was totally impoverished. Yes, she had a heart of Gold. But if all our ladies were like her, the human race would end because they wouldn't have sexual relations. To take it to the same extreme as Bill Cosby being an conformist.

Do you have another?

 

[JacktheHat]

A woman that never married had no family and was totally impoverished. Yes, she had a heart of Gold. But if all our ladies were like her, the human race would end because they wouldn't have sexual relations. To take it to the same extreme as Bill Cosby being an conformist.

Do you have another?

What are you going on about?

Mother Theresa was a good role model because of what she did for other people. If proliferation of the human race was the sign of being a good role model then the UK is full of 'em...

 

[Danoff]

What are you going on about?

Mother Theresa was a good role model because of what she did for other people. If proliferation of the human race was the sign of being a good role model then the UK is full of 'em...

Mother Theresa did way less for other people than Bill Gates, Donald Trump, or Steve Forbes.

 

[JacktheHat]

Mother Theresa did way less for other people than Bill Gates, Donald Trump, or Steve Forbes.

Not in relation to what she, personally, got out of it.

 

[Swift]

Mother Theresa did way less for other people than Bill Gates, Donald Trump, or Steve Forbes.

Thank you!

So, how is Bill Cosby saying, "Don't depend on the Government for your well being" A bad role model. He got a doctorate in childhood education. The man is educated. He practiced what he preached with his children. That's the kind of person America needs for a role model. You may see it as selfish and maybe it is. But taking care of your family and making sure they go down the right path is selfish then you'd better call the majority of fathers selfish conformists.

 

[sicbeing]

Bill Cosby is great, you are not, just go away with the Nazi Germany crap. How did you possibly realize "OH my God, he said that Bill Cosby wants everyone to 'fit' into society! Well what about when people wanted you to fit in and DIE because you weren't born of blonde hair and blue eyes?!"

 

[Danoff]

Not in relation to what she, personally, got out of it.

Not in relation to... what? Look those guys donated an increadible amount of money to charities. Enough to fully fund several charities for years and touch the lives of 10's if not 100's of thousands of people. That's not to mention the fact that they push the economy forward, fund innovation, and provide a business role model for countless others.

Any one of those guys has helped way more people than Mother Theresa.

 

[JacktheHat]

Thank you!

So, how is Bill Cosby saying, "Don't depend on the Government for your well being" A bad role model. He got a doctorate in childhood education. The man is educated. He practiced what he preached with his children. That's the kind of person America needs for a role model. You may see it as selfish and maybe it is. But taking care of your family and making sure they go down the right path is selfish then you'd better call the majority of fathers selfish conformists.

What are you going on about, Swift?

If you really want to do something good for your, and everybody elses, children then what's wrong with breaking down barriers and prejudices?