The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

[Northstar]

At Bahrain 2010 they were 10 seconds of the pace. Today it was less than 5.

Last year at Brazil they were only 3 at the end of Q1 and 5 at the end of qualifying...

 

[CarBastard]

But so are Caterham and Marussia.

Like Ardius alluded to, if we simply delete the bottom team at the end of the year ala the TOCA shootout, we'll end up with a very thin field and highly unexciting racing.

They are even slower than Caterham and Marussia! Their best result has been a 17th, while Marussia has got up to 12th.

It's not about deleting bottom teams because, as it has been said already, there will always be bottom teams. It's about selecting only the best privateers for F1 and making sure they're are doing an effort good enough to bring results. Williams is the living proof that privateers can even get to the point where they beat the works teams, and recently Force India has proved that you can get to the middle of the pack in a couple of years. I'm not talking about winning, but come on...they're always struggling to meet the 107%.

As I said, my thing with HRT is the lack of progress. And what makes my dislike even stronger is the whole HRT/Epsilon Euskadi business that was plain political corruption in favour of HRT.

 

[nealcropper]

But so are Caterham and Marussia.

Like Ardius alluded to, if we simply delete the bottom team at the end of the year ala the TOCA shootout, we'll end up with a very thin field and highly unexciting racing.

We would end up with no teams after 24 years.

 

[Dunkinator]

HRT are the slowest team on the grid, yes you could say they have shown progression etc etc but i hardly see them being competitive in years to come, if HRT do go i don't see Marussia or Cateram leaving too. Even the commentators say that HRT are slow and find it hard to reach that 107% or what ever. Even a GP2 car would be quicker than them.

 

[Liquid]

Being at the back of the grid or being uncompetitive is not grounds for withdrawal from the championship. Today's world of bulletproof reliability probably costs the backmarkers of scoring the odd point, and lucrative constructor's championship money.

Would Minardi have scored points, and accumulated its fanbase, had they started in this day and age?

 

[Bulletproofjay]

Vettel or Alonso ??? Rain or not rain ?? Somehow Alonso might do it ?????

 

[Liquid]

Vettel or Alonso ??? Rain or not rain ?? Somehow Alonso might do it ?????

2012 Brazilian GP

Welcome to GTP.

Please search more thoroughly in future.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Auto Motor und Sport are reporting that Bottas has signed a contract with Williams; it timsply hasn't been announced yet:

www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/williams-fahrer-2013-bottas-ersetzt-senna-6180552.html

Omnicorse suggesting that Vitaly Petrov has found some sponsors and could sign a new contract with Caterham as early as today:

www.omnicorse.it/magazine/23514/for...-lo-sponsor-e-tratta-di-nuovo-con-la-caterham

AMuS' Tobias Grüner reckons that Bruno Senna is offering any team $10 million and Luiz Razia is offering $34 million, but no-one is interested in either of them:

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/272356699782918146

 

[Liquid]

Who would partner Petrov at Caterham, if Kovelainen is supposedly on his way out?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Charles Pic has already joined the team:

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/11/23/caterham-sign-charles-pic-2013/

He's one of the richest pay drivers on the grid.

 

[Liquid]

Ah, memory blank, thanks for that.

Eh, he's done a steady job this year. Kept it on the straight and narrow. Worth a push to the next team I suppose, even if it is primarily on the basis of finance.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Kamui Kobayashi thinks he can race in 2013. He says he's talking to a team - no word on who, of course - and he admits it is going to be difficult, but if he gets some money in, then he thinks he might be in with a chance.

I think the only feasible move for Kobayashi is to go to Lotus. Force India have an opening, but they’ve made it know they are lokoing for someone with sponsors. If Kobayashi couldn’t get sponsors together in time for Sauber, then I doubt he could get them together for Force India. Most of the other teams with vacancies are also looking for sponsors (Caterham), are believed to already have drivers lined up (Williams), or face an uncertain future (HRT).

But Lotus as only confirmed Kimi Raikkonen for 2013. Despite constantly talking about how they’re going to offer Grosjean a seat, the team haven’t announced him yet, and if they really wanted to keep him, they would have done so by now. I think they’re seriously considering other alternatives, given his accident-prone nature. This, in particular, might be a concern for Coca-Cola, who want to compete with Red Bull – and they can’t do that if one of the team’s drivers is constantly in the wars. Even when Grosjean is not the cause, like in the pile-up at La Source, he has a knack for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, like in Abu Dhabi. He’s certainly quick, but he’s wild, and with the Burn sponsorship said to be worth some $30-odd million, there will probably have been some serious discussion about driver line-ups because having someone who is a bit of a crasher could do a lot of damage to a brand. Worse, Grosjean has over-compensated in addressing his crashing problems, and the result has been someone who is too cautious for his own good, which other drivers have been more than happy to take advantage of. I think his eagerness to stay out of trouble has blunted his killer instinct, and that’s not easy to get back.

If Coca-Cola are leaning on Lotus to drop Grosjean, then Kamui Kobayashi is probably the next-best alternative. He hasn’t lived up to fan expectations, and he’s had some disappointing moments, but he is popular, and a popular driver will get a team (and therefore a sponsor) more coverage. Which is why I find it odd that Kobayashi is having so much difficulty finding a sponsor; of all the free agents on the grid, he’s probably one of the most marketable. But he’s also a risk: Grosjean is the superior driver, and Kobayashi is not without his flaws. Lotus will be very wary that Sauber cut him loose, particularly if they think it was on performance grounds. Although Esteban Gutierrez took the seat Kobayashi is holding, Gutierrez is really replacing Sergio Perez to guarantee an influx of sponsor dollars. Nico Hulkenberg is really the driver who replaced Kobayashi, and he doesn’t have much (if any) sponsorship to his name.

That said, I just can’t see it happening. I think getting that Lotus seat will require Kobayashi to push an elephant up the stairs, and even if he somehow manages it, I can’t see him working well with Raikkonen (though to be fair, I don’t think Raikkonen works well with anyone).

 

[peter_vod69]

Point 1: Grosjean not responsible for the Spa Crash? He squeezed Hamilton right out of room, in a blatant display of either ignorance, incompetence, or blatant aggression.

Point 2: Does it really matter who Raikkonen has as his team mate? He doesn't really HAVE to work with anyone, and it's not as if Kobayashi (or any potential number 2) will really worry him for pace.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Sorry, meant to say "is the cause". I copied it over from another forum where I posted it, but forgot to delete the "not" because me connection dropped out.

 

[Peasantslayer]

This would be nice for Lewis, a couple of years at Merc then a move to Red Bull if things aren't going well.

 

[Ardius]

Kobayashi used to drive for DAMS too, so Eric Boullier will already know him and presumably have contact with him.

 

[LongbowX]

Would be an interesting combination. If he doesn't get picked up, I do hope he gets picked up for Toyota's WEC effort, even if he dodged the question in that interview.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

Which is why I find it odd that Kobayashi is having so much difficulty finding a sponsor; of all the free agents on the grid, he’s probably one of the most marketable.

Flat economy in Japan with declining public interest in motoring, never mind racing, explains a lot there. Plus his English isn't good enough for him to be a commercial asset in the UK and the US. That said, you'd think Toyota could nonetheless throw some dollars/Euros into the kitty.

The guy I'd single out as being right for Lotus is Hulkenberg, who if Grosjean gets sacked may wind up rueing his relatively early decision to sign with Sauber. For Lotus, retaining Grosjean is clearly a risk for all the reasons PM laid out. But I'm not sure any of the people still looking for drives are less of a risk.

Edit: I could see the Maldonado-to-Lotus scenario PM laid out earlier in the week playing out. Maldonado post-break does seem to have taken on board the need for improvement, and he can match or better Grosjean for one-lap qualifying pace, so from a Lotus perspective he and the money might be worth a punt.

Another edit: Given that Nissan's firming up its relationship with Red Bull, there's all the more reason for Toyota to help Kobayashi. Not to say they will, mind you, just that there's a reason to want to.

 

[Ardius]

Nevermind Lotus, McLaren should have waited and picked up Hulkenburg. While I'm happy to see Perez go there, Hulk would have been my number 1 choice even before this season.

If I was running all of the teams:

Red Bull - Vettel/Webber
McLaren - Button/Hulkenburg
Ferrari -Alonso/Perez
Lotus - Raikkonen/Kobayashi
Mercedes - Hamilton/Rosberg
Sauber - Glock/Calado
Williams - Maldonado/Bottas
Force India - Di Resta/Alguesauri
Toro Rosso - Ricciardo/Vergne
Caterham - Kovalainen/Pic
Marussia - Petrov/Chilton
HRT - De La Rosa/Clos

 

[nealcropper]

Nevermind Lotus, McLaren should have waited and picked up Hulkenburg. While I'm happy to see Perez go there, Hulk would have been my number 1 choice even before this season.

If I was running all of the teams:

Red Bull - Vettel/Webber
McLaren - Button/Hulkenburg
Ferrari -Alonso/Perez
Lotus - Raikkonen/Kobayashi
Mercedes - Hamilton/Rosberg
Sauber - Glock/Calado
Williams - Maldonado/Bottas
Force India - Di Resta/Alguesauri
Toro Rosso - Ricciardo/Vergne
Caterham - Kovalainen/Pic
Marussia - Petrov/Chilton
HRT - De La Rosa/Clos

You would see Massa without a drive?

 

[Ardius]

Yeah, why not? He's been better recently but he's been dreadful the past 3 seasons.
Time to give some new blood a chance who maybe can be more consistent in being at the front.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

Nevermind Lotus, McLaren should have waited and picked up Hulkenburg.

True, but once McLaren made their choice, Hulk made his and by doing so eliminated himself from any chance of taking Grosjean's seat. Like many I'm puzzled he opted for a lateral move but he must figure Sauber and Kaltenborn are steadier hands than Mallya.

I think Perez will be fine at McLaren. 2013 will be a learning year for him but he'll bring home some results. He should win a race or two.

 

[Wardez]

Nevermind Lotus, McLaren should have waited and picked up Hulkenburg. While I'm happy to see Perez go there, Hulk would have been my number 1 choice even before this season.

If I was running all of the teams:

Red Bull - Vettel/Webber
McLaren - Button/Hulkenburg
Ferrari -Alonso/Perez
Lotus - Raikkonen/Kobayashi
Mercedes - Hamilton/Rosberg
Sauber - Glock/Calado
Williams - Maldonado/Bottas
Force India - Di Resta/Alguesauri
Toro Rosso - Ricciardo/Vergne
Caterham - Kovalainen/Pic
Marussia - Petrov/Chilton
HRT - De La Rosa/Clos

Great list, I'd just switch Perez with the Hulk and put Di Resta in Sauber along with Esteban.

And I'd put Calado in place of Chilton.

 

[Tom]

It appears Barrichello may be in talks with Caterham.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/186428/1/reports_link_barrichello_to_caterham_talks.html

 

[Peasantslayer]

Yeah, why not? He's been better recently but he's been dreadful the past 3 seasons.
Time to give some new blood a chance who maybe can be more consistent in being at the front.

I understand what you are saying but prior to his head injury in 2009 he was regarded as one of the best on the grid, he looks like he has returned to his best. He has had some good results recently which would be even better without being forced to be Alonso's assistant, in Korea, India, Austin and Brazil he has looked as good as if not better than Alonso.

 

[Centura]

After the last race, I feel like Grosjean won't get a contract with Lotus. However, I have no idea who would be a suitable replacement. Possibly Heikki?

It appears Barrichello may be in talks with Caterham.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/186428/1/reports_link_barrichello_to_caterham_talks.html

Honestly, I don't understand why Caterham would want him.

 

[Wardez]

I think Kamui could do very well there at Lotus. With their new sponsor money coming in they won't exactly need money and Kamui would be a more solid pick with his experience and popularity and be a better overall team mate to Kimi. I think having those two together on one team would instantly make it the most popular. I also feel that Kamui and Kimi would get along well, they seem sort of similar when I hear them and how they are outside of racing.

 

[hawkeye122]

I think Perez would have been a decent fit for Lotus. But hey, thats just me.


Probably not Sutil....

 

[prisonermonkeys]

After the last race, I feel like Grosjean won't get a contract with Lotus.

I've been wondering this for a while now. At in the last few races of 2011, Eric Boullier was heaping praise and reassurance on Vitaly Petrov (and to a lesser extent, Bruno Senna), telling him that they'd pick up the option on his contract. But they never did. They signed Raikkonen and Grosjean, and cut Petrov and Senna loose in one fell swoop. Boullier has been doing something similar to Grosjean, contantly telling him (and the media) that the team is very happy with him. If they really were that happy, they would have offered him a contract already. So I would nto be at all surprised if the team is looking at other drivers to replace him, all the while stroking his ego in case they don't get someone else.

However, I have no idea who would be a suitable replacement. Possibly Heikki?

Kovalainen isn't up to it. He's a nice guy, but he's not what you'd call fast. Vitaly Petrov has out-qualified and out-raced him quite a lot this season - particualrly during the secnod half of the year - and certainly moreso than Jarno Trulli ever did. Petrov isn't highly rated, so that suggests Kovalainen has punching above his weight, but if he's met his match in Petrov, Lotus won't take him given that they let Petrov go.

Honestly, I don't understand why Caterham would want him.

Nienteen years of experience would probably count for a lot.

 

[Ardius]

I understand what you are saying but prior to his head injury in 2009 he was regarded as one of the best on the grid, he looks like he has returned to his best. He has had some good results recently which would be even better without being forced to be Alonso's assistant, in Korea, India, Austin and Brazil he has looked as good as if not better than Alonso.

Even before 2009 Massa has never really been a convincing top driver to me. I don't think he has much more to show or give and I'd rather see some fresh talent in the top seats.