::::: World Super GT Championship | Round 1 | Qualifying in Session! :::::

[Masi_23]

Btw, When testing the cars, i came to the conclution that the Yellowhat Supra can do enginr upgrade 3, and then it will reach 525hp, which mekes the supra pull similar laptimes as the other cars.

So I,d say that you should give that some tought.

But if you want to, I can post my tests later this week since I got a few more cars to try out.

Been thinking about the HP cap too. Since the Lexus' goes up to 538 with the S2 turbo, cap is still in 542 even after banning the Nismo Z. Without the S2 turbo, we can lower the cap to 522.

How much slower is the Lexus stock compared to the other cars?

But I honestly don't think that drivers will do their best if that's the case. Also, if you are slow in Monaco does not say that you are slow on other tracks..

Mentioned that on my last post too.

 

[Denilson]

I will not post all my results now, but I'll post enough for you to take a decition.

Yellowhat GT-R: stock, Suzuka, Racing Hard, my lounge: 1:58.932

Yellowhat Supra: stock, Suzuka, Racing Hard, my lounge: 1:59.665
Yellowhat Supra: engine 3, Suzuka, racing Hard, my lounge: 1:59.059

Petronas SC430: stock, Suzuka, Racing Hard, my lounge: 1:59.370
Petronas SC430: turbo2, Suzuka, racing Hard, my lounge: 1:58.196

All laps are done on the second lap, so fuel level and tyre wear is the same.

Note: The SC430 and the Supra is slower in the corners compared to the other cars, but gain with top speed. When calculating with slip stream the SC430 will not be that much faster as in my tests, plus laptimes will decrease in a faster way, cause it's poor in corners, so as long as the tyres wear down, the laptimes will decrease faster than for other cars.

 

[Masi_23]

How about adding the chassis reinforcements (for the Lexus)? Maybe it should help a tad.

Can't do any testing right now myself. Haven't even touched my PS3 since friday

 

[Denilson]

How about adding the chassis reinforcements (for the Lexus)? Maybe it should help a tad.

Can't do any testing right now myself. Haven't even touched my PS3 since friday

Call me insane.. But I actually did test that as well

Petronas SC430: ridgity improvement, Suzuka, Racing Hard, my lounge: 1:59.284

 

[Masi_23]

ehh... not that much faster either.

how bout getting averages instead of fast laps? Like a 5 lap stint

 

[Denilson]

ehh... not that much faster either.

how bout getting averages instead of fast laps? Like a 5 lap stint

It's not a 1 lap result, I did 8 laps in every car under the same surcumstances.. So I'd say that the tests are as accurate as can be.

I only counted my 2 nd lap in each stint. Each stint was 3 laps, so I did 24 laps in every car.. But only 8 of the laps was counted for. But in this way, I got a feel for the car when it had a full fueltank and had good tyres. That's why I think that the tests are as accurate as can be.

EDIT: I did not run on default settings. prior each test I did tune the car so it drove as nice as possible. But the "hardness" of the varoius setups was about the same.

 

[VINCE__]

Hey guys not meaning to butt in here while you're working. I had a couple of questions. I looked through the first 4 posts and may have overlooked it. But with the cars being Premium we do use the "cockpit view" correct? Also No "Automatic" Transmissions right?

 

[Denilson]

You are free to use whatever view suits you best. You can also drive with an automatic gearbox if you want to.

Don't think it's the most popular choice tho..

Note: Some GT300 cars are not premium.

 

[VINCE__]

Any testing on the Toms Supra? I had to buy one today due to not being able to untune some stuff. It is not the vette eating beast as the one I had prior.

 

[Imari]

Honestly, it's a bit pointless discussing this now when we know that the PP system is around the corner. PP is going to turn any balancing we do now on it's head.

For starters, PP *should* give us a more accurate comparison of the cars capabilities. Also, if PD is smart they will have included ballast (and hopefully air restrictors too) which will give us the opportunity to do success ballast or simply add weight to the cars to make them more even.

In GT500 there are multiples of the same car in different liveries, so it might be cool to make a list so that the people who want to drive GTRs can spread themselves over the available liveries.

 

[VINCE__]

You are free to use whatever view suits you best. You can also drive with an automatic gearbox if you want to.

Don't think it's the most popular choice tho..

Note: Some GT300 cars are not premium.

I understand. I am forced to use my old DFGT for the time being. My T500 went up in flames. Literally. Wont get it back for a few weeks. Now the Logitech feels like a child's toy.

 

[Denilson]

Honestly, it's a bit pointless discussing this now when we know that the PP system is around the corner. PP is going to turn any balancing we do now on it's head.

For starters, PP *should* give us a more accurate comparison of the cars capabilities. Also, if PD is smart they will have included ballast (and hopefully air restrictors too) which will give us the opportunity to do success ballast or simply add weight to the cars to make them more even.

In GT500 there are multiples of the same car in different liveries, so it might be cool to make a list so that the people who want to drive GTRs can spread themselves over the available liveries.

And if not, the discussion is not pointless.... PP system is not the best solution imo. Don't think it was that good in GT5P. At the moment (atleast regarding GT500's) the cars are as close as can be. Probably could include the Z again maybee with the PP system beeing good enough.

@ VINZE_: Tom's supra: stock, Suzuka, Racing Hard, my lounge: 1:58.620

 

[Masi_23]

And if not, the discussion is not pointless.... PP system is not the best solution imo. Don't think it was that good in GT5P.

@ VINZE_: Tom's supra: stock, Suzuka, Racing Hard, my lounge: 1:58.620

As far as i know, it only balanced the fixed specs. I don't think it recognizes the handling characteristics.

What we really need is a success ballast. Like Imari mentioned, putting weight inside faster cars (or a faster driver) like they do in real life.

 

[Denilson]

About the GT-R's. All are NOT the same, trust me

 

[Denilson]

As far as i know, it only balanced the fixed specs. I don't think it recognizes the handling characteristics.

What we really need is a success ballast. Like Imari mentioned, putting weight inside faster cars (or a faster driver) like they do in real life.

Yes, but who said anything about the possibility to add ballast should be included in the update...? Sounds like a wish to me..

 

[Imari]

About the GT-R's. All are NOT the same, trust me

I don't have them all, and I haven't tested the ones that I have extensively. What are the differences? Are they specced differently? Or is it just something that you notice when you're driving them?

The point of waiting for the PP update is that *hopefully* the PP system takes more aspects of the car into consideration when generating it's PP value. We can tune the cars now, but it's mostly a matter of trial and error. If we wait, we may find that the PP system gives us an accurate indication of the cars relative speeds, and it will be very easy to judge which upgrades to add. It doesn't change anything, it simply make the work easier if you wait a day or two.

Regarding ballast and air restrictors, it's totally a wish. Logic would dictate that they add it eventually and it seems like a good time, but then PD hasn't been prone to respond to logic so far.

 

[Masi_23]

Yes, but who said anything about the possibility to add ballast should be included in the update...? Sounds like a wish to me..

No one. Just a thought.

 

[Denilson]

The Clarion Advan is a completely different car than the others, and the others are not exactly the same either.

Clarion Advan is SUPER tail happy using the same tune as on the other GT-R's. To remove atleast a part of the loose tail, I need to change the setup A LOT.

But when looking at the cars in the dealership, they look almost the same.. The Autech Motul for exampla is shorter compared to the others. And also got 30 kilos extra..

 

[OwensRacing]

How about adding the chassis reinforcements (for the Lexus)? Maybe it should help a tad.

Can't do any testing right now myself. Haven't even touched my PS3 since friday

I personally think the EPSON NSX needs to be allowed this mod.

As well the Lexus makes exactly 522 0miles and stage 2. Not sure if that was oil changed. But it can make the 522.


Trick to prevent HP mods on NSX lower HP and have them enter raise HP have rest enter.

I also thought the Xanavi GT-R drove better then the Calsonic.

 

[Wardez]

I'm with Imari on not going too far til the updstes in.

You guys really would do well to discuss this in the Irc room, you're knocking off posts like every minute hah.

I'm weary of setting up a handi-cap system. We shoudld've tested ot before the season, not during the first.

This first season should go by a simply as possible so we an use it as a benchmark in further seasons/series.

 

[Denilson]

I'm with Imari on not going too far til the updstes in.

You guys really would do well to discuss this in the Irc room, you're knocking off posts like every minute hah.

I'm weary of setting up a handi-cap system. We shoudld've tested ot before the season, not during the first.

This first season should go by a simply as possible so we an use it as a benchmark in further seasons/series.

Well, my car tests are already done.. I can't see the trouble posting results and throw ideas out.

All information is good

Edit: And if we do net get what we want with this update, the discution is already on. Can't see any cons with it.. Exept for the actual time it takes to discus it.. But I think it's fun

 

[Masi_23]

Can't wait for Friday

Here's to hoping for a better replay system

 

[Wardez]

Yeah Mas, friday should be epic... Should be...

Anyhow, yes, discussion is good feom all angles. We have so much perspective in this series it's amazing.

I don't think setting up an all around qualifier will be worth while at all. People are faster at different tracks, situations, even times of the month. We need to find a gold standard to run that makes sure everyone is going to be equal.

After that's completely established we can go forward with a ballast system.

One radical approach (radical to some anyway) is to give every one the same car. Sounds wil right? But if everyone just used the xanavi GTr and Gariya, for example, it eliminates all hassle. But, it doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the series so..

 

[Imari]

Well, my car tests are already done.. I can't see the trouble posting results and throw ideas out.

All information is good

Edit: And if we do net get what we want with this update, the discution is already on. Can't see any cons with it.. Exept for the actual time it takes to discus it.. But I think it's fun

I agree with posting the information. But projecting solutions when we don't have all the facts is premature. Things may be the same come tomorrow, things may be very different. For all we know, they could have adjusted the physical values of some of the cars to fit in better with the performance points system, it's not like the values for race cars are set in stone.

The downside with starting the discussion early is that it's easy for people to start with preconceived ideas of what should happen, before we have all the information. At the moment, there's too many things that are unknown and unknowable for me to be comfortable making any statements about how we should balance the cars.

I'm merely warning against making premature judgements, there will be plenty of time for that AFTER the patch.

Also, I notice that you're doing this testing in your lounge. Was it not established that tyre physics were different in lounge to online? It's certainly been different for me the few times I tried it.

 

[nycrom1971]

About the GT-R's. All are NOT the same, trust me

Like all Lexus Sc430 are Not the same...the Petronas is more balanced than Eneos for example..

 

[Denilson]

Well ofcourse nothing will be set in stone 1 day before a major update... BUT if the update do not stand up to our (probably won't) expectations, this is a good thing.. And if it does, well I lost some time writing posts.. So?

I think that the cars (GT500's, since that's my "area") are equal enough. So adding ballast or whatever we are discussing here at the moment will not have the effect you guys obviously are hoping for, since the small differences between cars most likely depends on the driver. It's not like some are running 650 hp and some 550 hp...

On the other hand, adding ballast as a "penalty" for the winning car, is a great possibility, but will in no way make the discution about differences between eligable cars irrelevant.

And about my tests, yes, I do the testing in my lounge. But ALL tests are done in my lounge. It's not the actual laptimes that are relevant, it's the difference in laptime that is. So driving in my lounge does the job perfectly imo. It's not like the Clarion advan GT-R would fly past the others in an open lobby when it's 2 seconds slower than the others in my lounge... I'd say it's close enough. The search for 100% justice is a never ending serach, and that is actually a waste of time if you ask me.

But I totally agree that we should not make any decisions at the moment. 👍

 

[nycrom1971]

I don't have them all, and I haven't tested the ones that I have extensively. What are the differences? Are they specced differently? Or is it just something that you notice when you're driving them?

I never tested GTR but the Sc430 yes..and definetely with the same tuning the Eneos in Suzuka is much more nervus than Petronas...very difficult to drive...out the corner oversteering....I was surprise to see that..The Petronas is easy to drive maybe with a bit more to understeering..but faster in the totally lap time.

 

[nycrom1971]

Well ofcourse nothing will be set in stone 1 day before a major update... BUT if the update do not stand up to our (probably won't) expectations, this is a good thing.. And if it does, well I lost some time writing posts.. So?

I think that the cars (GT500's, since that's my "area") are equal enough. So adding ballast or whatever we are discussing here at the moment will not have the effect you guys obviously are hoping for, since the small differences between cars most likely depends on the driver. It's not like some are running 650 hp and some 550 hp...

On the other hand, adding ballast as a "penalty" for the winning car, is a great possibility, but will in no way make the discution about differences between eligable cars irrelevant.

i agree, but with just 35hp the Sc430, is 1 second in Suzuka faster than stock..I think that we have to find the right balance..coz without a good solution all will choose Xanavi & C....
With the PP we will see the real performace.
I agree too for the ballast like the real SuperGt race..

 

[Denilson]

In my opinion, 100% equal cars is a dream.. PP system/ ballast system or not..

Let's just do a one-make and get rid of this discussion. Because now we are down to the smallest details, and it feels like we are splitting hairs at the moment.

 

[Sail IC]

I've done some extensive car testing, but to stay high level without going into details.

I view the GT-R (Xanavi, Yellowhat, Calsonic) as a "norm car". By far the most popular and for good reasons. If we put the hp limit to 522hp there will basically be two cars to chose from. The GT-R if you like FR cars, the NSX if you can master it. The Supras and the Lexus are clearly slower with stock power. I am very sure about this.

Adding a stage2 turbo to the Lexus makes it very close in performance to the GT-R. I spent one week trying the two on different tracks, typically laping within 0.2 sec of each other. Testing done by other people seems to come to the same conclusion.

If we want to see Supra's on the grid, I can see adding a stage2 turbo could make sense. I haven't tested this, but it feels right. This would need to be tested.

With the car rules we today have on page one we have something that we know works reasonably well, even I doubt we will see any Supras. If we do some significant changes I cannot see how we can run the first race in the championship next Friday and be reasonably sure it will work throughout the season.