::::: World Super GT Championship | Round 6 | Nismo GT (SIGN-UP NOW!) :::::

  • Thread starter Masi_23
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There was a penalty given out for running off circuit excessively at Nurburgring; you can report a driver if you think they are using the circuit run off areas to an advantage using the normal process.

I know I ran wide a few times, maybe once every 4-5 laps, but not with an advantage; only because the front end understeered, then snapped the other way a lot. Setup sucks. For me, if I ever ran wide, I tried to get back on the circuit asap, hope everyone else did the same.
 
In the excitement Pag prob forgot it's one fast lap per class. As mentioned in previous post.




How are off track penalties handled for this track? Not to be a jerk, but I seen some pretty serious detours. I am guilty of two very close buy still of tracks. I know I seen others do plenty more then two. While personally I think this track is know. For some over running. However we have a rule set to abide by and not during so reduces the integrity of the league.

Steward(s), Denilson, Masi???? Please Respond to this situation.

Owen you are right there are precise rule about cuts chicanes, going wide to the corner ect.
So if u have some segnalation please send to me and to the others stewards a PM about that.
👍
 
How are off track penalties handled for this track? Not to be a jerk, but I seen some pretty serious detours. However we have a rule set to abide by and not during so reduces the integrity of the league.

Steward(s), Denilson, Masi???? Please Respond to this situation.

+1. Everyone ran wide at least once but some cars were making it a habit. Honestly I could've run at least 1-2s/lap faster if I wasn't so determined to keep 2 wheels on track. That's 40s-1:20s over race distance. How many breaches of the "keep 2 wheels on track" (except spinouts) are considered beyond acceptable?

Also the "OFFICIAL RESULTS" posted by Pagi seem premature, I thought we had 24 hours to report incidents???

EDIT: the two post above explain my 1st question.
 
+1. Everyone ran wide at least once but some cars were making it a habit. Honestly I could've run at least 1-2s/lap faster if I wasn't so determined to keep 2 wheels on track. That's 40s-1:20s over race distance.

Sorry, it's impossible to gain 2 seconds a lap at Fuji going wide by a few feet. You would have to go wide at every possible place to even gain 1 second.
 
Sorry, it's impossible to gain 2 seconds a lap at Fuji going wide by a few feet. You would have to go wide at every possible place to even gain 1 second.
Sorry but you're wrong. I was braking a bit earlier in the race to make sure I didn't run wide. I know I can run 2s faster by "going for it" like I did in quali at the risk of going wide.

Going forward I need to understand what's more important. Staying on track or going for it and not worry about running wide.
 
+1. Everyone ran wide at least once but some cars were making it a habit. Honestly I could've run at least 1-2s/lap faster if I wasn't so determined to keep 2 wheels on track. That's 40s-1:20s over race distance. How many breaches of the "keep 2 wheels on track" (except spinouts) are considered beyond acceptable?

Also the "OFFICIAL RESULTS" posted by Pagi seem premature, I thought we had 24 hours to report incidents???

EDIT: the two post above explain my 1st question.

Yes, any Driver have 24h to report incident to the Stewards, so that are "UNOFFICIAL RESULTS".
 
Sorry but you're wrong.

Show me a lap from anyone that drove in the race that gained more than a second per lap by going wide.

In the meanwhile, I will take my MR-S back to Fuji, go wide at all of the 6 (reasonable) run-off areas and save the replay. My best lap was 1'42.7xx over this week. I will try for an hour to get down into the 1'40's according to your 2-second-a-lap-advantage. I'll post the replay here anyway. EDIT: of my best lap using run-offs.
 
Unless you actually cut the corners using the run off (using the green concrete at the chicane) and cut the corner big time at the first corner in S3 (after the chicane), I can't see a way to gain such significant time. And that would be blatant. Everywhere else, if you run wide, you're not getting an advantage, and that includes the exit of Turn 1, Turn 4 and to an extent, the last corner.

I guess you are talking about the front runners in GT300 since we were 1-2 seconds a lap quicker, but from what I saw everything was fair - rarely did one of us run wide, and if we did, it was brought back on track asap. Pushing hard also = running the risk of making a mistake, though, and mistakes do not = an advantage.
 
I guess you are talking about the front runners in GT300 since we were 1-2 seconds a lap quicker
Not really. Kamy ran superclean and Aderrm (as much as I disagree with almost everything he has to say) was mostly clean as well.
 
as I disagree with almost everything he has to say.

What do you disagree with? I'm going to try and prove you wrong that you can't gain "at least 1/2 seconds per lap". You're not doing anything to aid your case except for being a little bit troll-like.
 
What do you disagree with? I'm going to try and prove you wrong that you can't gain "at least 1/2 seconds per lap". You're not doing anything to aid your case except for being a little bit troll-like.

Oh all the nonsense you said about how stats (HP and weight) don't matter :rolleyes:, that PP is useless (which it's not when you use it to check car legality) and that I can't run 2s faster at Fuji (when I know I can) by running like a madman going wide every chance I get instead of making sure I stay on track. And then you have the nerve to call me a troll? You, who marches in here with a bad attitude (I'm not alone who thinks that) not having run a single race until yesterday?

All that aside, Owen brought up a good point about some cars running consistently wide/cut and I happen to agree. I'm not necessarily in a position to gain anything in this particular race even if penalties are given. I'm simply trying to understand where the right balance is between trying to go as fast as you can versus making sure you stay on track.
 
Not really. Kamy ran superclean and Aderrm (as much as I disagree with almost everything he has to say) was mostly clean as well.

Heh. I'm watching my race now and I run wide about once every 4 laps on different corners. In the first 12 laps I actually ran wide 3 times. Twice on the exit of Turn 1 and once on the exit of Turn 12. Running wide doesn't gain you time, it's called a mistake, I'm not perfect and it happens when you're pushing hard. If I was trying to gain an advantage, I'd have done it more often and at better corners. Running wide at Turn 1 or Turn 4 like I did most is just losing you time, especially when I ended up on the grass on the exit of 4 more often than not. I made a lot of mistakes this race; I probably run onto the grass about as often as I use the run off. If you include those, I was probably off the circuit about once every two laps :indiff: - so, advantage, I think not, just lucky there was run off as opposed to grass or gravel.

Remember that we are allowed to have two wheels (even a slither of rubber) on the red/white kerbs to be "on the circuit" - as a result that's what I aim for at (almost) every corner, sometimes I'm a few inches wide, sometimes I'm a few inches inside.
 
I'm not necessarily in a position to gain anything in this particular race even if penalties are given. I'm simply trying to understand where the right balance is between trying to go as fast as you can versus making sure you stay on track.

Yeah I totally agree with that.

Oh all the nonsense you said about how stats (HP and weight) don't matter :rolleyes:

The MR-S weighs 1125 kg and has 315 HP. The Impreza weighs less and has more power yet the MR-S is faster. I didn't say it was nonsense, all I said was that you can't wholey rely on stats - like you did when you questioned my quali lap in the MR-S.

that PP is useless (which it's not when you use it to check car legality)

I did say that PP is useless, yes. Maybe that wasn't the correct word because yes I agree, it can be used to check legality, therefore it isn't useless. What I meant to say was that PP is useless in the sense that you can't compare the performance of a car with it. Which again, is based on stats. Maybe I should have used the word pathetic instead.


that I can't run 2s faster at Fuji (when I know I can) by running like a madman going wide every chance I get instead of making sure I stay on track.

You can't say you ran 2 seconds a lap faster when you were "running like a madman" compared to a lap which you was taking it easy on in the race. Of course then you would be more than 2 seconds a lap faster. What you have to do is compare you fastest time vs your fastest time going wide on every corner. Then it's a fair test.

And then you have the nerve to call me a troll?

I said troll-like. You haven't really backed up your arguments - until now. Even a few days a go at quali when you questioned my lap. If you disagreed with what I said about PP, why didn't you bring it up then? But if you think that the PP system is accurate then fine. It's just the majority of people including me will disagree with you there.

You, who marches in here with a bad attitude (I'm not alone who thinks that) not having run a single race until yesterday?

Do you mind? I missed all of the races until now because of real life problems. I ran Suzuka quali but my internet went down for the race. Then my computer had to be fixed for the next 3 races, therefore I couldn't see any information or news in the threads. I tried to keep up e.g. by PSN messaging Nycrom and Chorda but it didn't really work so I left it. Then I had Uni coursework for the 5th race. I kindly asked if I could come back to the series even though the rulesd say you can't miss more than 2 races, and Paginas let me in. There were no objections.

And if no one has the balls to say that they think I have a bad attitude then I don't care really. We all try to get along, if you have any problems with me, just PM me, jeez. Thanks for admitting that though.

By the way if anyone disagrees with what I say then reply back and don't keep a grudge against me please? 👍
 
Heh. I'm watching my race now and I run wide about once every 4 laps on different corners. In the first 12 laps I actually ran wide 3 times. Twice on the exit of Turn 1 and once on the exit of Turn 12. Running wide doesn't gain you time, it's called a mistake, I'm not perfect and it happens when you're pushing hard.
I appreciate the honesty. Yes, running wide on its own doesn't gain time but in the bigger picture it does. Let me demonstrate. I'm speaking generally now.

Example 1: Running alone, you approach a corner. A) If you want to make sure you stay on track, you brake early, reduce speed to slightly below "safe speed" and make it. B) If you're going for it, you brake late, reduce speed to the max speed possible for the corner and hope for the best. Sometimes you make it, sometimes you run wide. You stay on the throttle regardless. Case B will always be faster than case A.

Example 2: Car A and car B battling approach corner #1. Car B brakes too late, runs deeper and blocks car A so car A is forced to slow down even more than it would need to make the corner. Car B runs wide on exit, never lifts and comes out ahead. Now car A is stuck behind the slower car B, eventually finds a way around car B on track, only to be passed in corner #1 again the same way.

In both examples it pays to run wide.

Remember that we are allowed to have two wheels (even a slither of rubber) on the red/white kerbs to be "on the circuit" - as a result that's what I aim for at (almost) every corner, sometimes I'm a few inches wide, sometimes I'm a few inches inside.

I understand that and obviously have no complaints when 2 wheels stay on track. But it was my understanding that having more than 2 wheels off track is a breach of rules and other than an isolated incident would be penalized.
 
i agree in someways with what atlas is saying i have very much experience from gt5 p on fuji in the gt by citroen concept car (had a world record) and all of us figthing for it ran wide at turn 1 and last corner (also 2 wheels on the grass a glitch in prologue to gain speed) and you gained time by going wide you can gain more in a gt by citroen then a gt300 or gt500 because it is not as good in the corners:)
 
Just my 2 cents here.
Example 1: Running alone, you approach a corner. A) If you want to make sure you stay on track, you brake early, reduce speed to slightly below "safe speed" and make it. B) If you're going for it, you brake late, reduce speed to the max speed possible for the corner and hope for the best. Sometimes you make it, sometimes you run wide. You stay on the throttle regardless. Case B will always be faster than case A.
While in a corner we're constantly assessing where we're going to exit in relation to the corner. Those times you're clenching your teeth when you're not sure if you're going to make it because maybe you cant see the exit, or you braked too late, you will do only 1 thing 9 times out of 10. Brake some more. You might leave it too late or the corner might tighten up and run wide regardless, in which case 2 things will happen. 1. You'll be far off the racing line. 2. You'd be going way slower than race pace. This would be a mistake which can happen to anyone while they are, as you say "going for it" No professional race car driver will just stay on the throttle regardless. They will make corrections.

Example 2: Car A and car B battling approach corner #1. Car B brakes too late, runs deeper and blocks car A so car A is forced to slow down even more than it would need to make the corner. Car B runs wide on exit, never lifts and comes out ahead. Now car A is stuck behind the slower car B, eventually finds a way around car B on track, only to be passed in corner #1 again the same way.

In this case unless there is quite a large runoff area for Car B to stay on the throttle and get back on the racing line before the next corner without braking, IE Nurburgring GP/F Turn 4 Car B would brake before it hit barriers or ran off track and slow down now wide of the racing line. Car A in this case since it is slower simply takes the inside lane and "criss crosses" to maintain position or gain the advantage before the next corner, all the while being in a better position to maintain the racing line.

My point is as soon as you are off the racing line, if there is not alot of runoff before the next corner you're not going to run faster than people maintaining the racing line. So it's really up to race stewards to watch and decide whether or not a driver did run wide to gain an advantage, albeit small, or if it was purely a mistake and no advantage was gained. That said I ran wide whenever my tyres were run down all to no advantage. Mistakes can be made and no penalties should be given for them. They should only be penalised if an advantage was gained.

EDIT: From the Regulations
Track Contact
"In a situation where the driver goes off the track, and without prejudice to part (e) below, he may rejoin, only when it is safe and without gaining any advantage. Also, if a driver unintentionally or intentionally leaves the track and gains a spot, he must relinquish that spot or he will be penalized.

e) Drivers committing serious mistakes repeatedly or seem to have a problem with keeping the car on the track would be reported to the Stewards and could result in penalties."
From my understanding of this it's perfectly fine to run wide here and there as long as it doesn't happen every lap and as long as you don't gain anything.
 
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Hi guys!!

I can see spoe discussions going on here.. I'll try to straighten out some of them..

1. Running wide. 2 wheels on track/white line/curb att ALL times. Running wide is not ok. However, running wide once is nothing that we will hand out a penaly for. In the OP, it says that if REPETEDLY run wide to gain time, a penalty is handed out. BUT, a penalty can not be handed out unless the incident is REPORTED. You can also be penalized for running wide without gaining time if it's concidered to be part of your racingline. You can not use the runoffareas as part of your normal racing line even if you don't gain time. But again, running wide once every 2.nd lap or so in different corners will most likeley be wieved as a mistake, and not a way to gain time. If a driver ALWAYS use a racingline outside the whiteline/curb. BUT you could get a penalty for running wide once, IF that one time made you a significant gain in time, unless time/spot gained is given back.

2. Quali for La Sarthe. We will do quali like always. BUT it will be a bit different.

QUALI will be set to 1 lap. The entire "race" will also be set to 1 lap. The time from sector 2 to the finishline will be your quali time. The line for sector 2 is just after the first chicane on the big straight. It will be the same kind of procedure for nurburgring 24h as well. Those of you who raced at La Sarthe in preseason will recognize the sector 2 line as the one we did start the race from. (We will start the race from this line this time as well).

I've also started a thread for race 7, and put up some new drivers as well. So please, continue all discussions in the new thread. I will keep this one open for Masi so he can update anything he wants to. I've also PM'ed him all results. He will put them up ASAP. But as you all know, he got some real life issues and we really need to respect that. If it will make us to wait for the results to be updated in the OP, then so be it. I also think that everything is supposed to be fresh and updated all the time, but we need to live with this for now. In the end of the day, the table will not make you win or loose the next race. And if you REALLY must know the standings, just look up the OFFICIAL results n the previous threads and do the math. 👍

C-Falcon89: I really feel for you man... You've not had a great season to say the least.. Just hang in there, you sure got the speed.
 
I have no one to report.

I was just curious how this gray area is looked at by those handing out penalties.
 
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