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- otakukid965
Amazing race. Didn't expect Magnussen to get a podium. Also, I'm a little pissed that they never did anything about Alonso pushing Hulkenberg off track about half way through the race.
2014 Rolex Australian Grand Prix
- Thread starter Cap'n Jack
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- 2,993
- Brisbane
- jimipitbull
Seems to be the issue
the fuel rate limit being imposed this year is on peak use, not average consumption
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/01/15/new-fuel-limit-2014-toughest-f1-rule/
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Thought so i remember that this was an issue with boost pressure in BTCC i.e there was cars getting penalties as they peaked over boost pressure for less than a second over a 20 min race.
- 5,923
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- neljack
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- otakukid965
- 2,993
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- jimipitbull
It's not over until Sebastian Vettel sings
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- neljack
It actually isn't over, Red Bull have appealed, unsurprisingly.
https://twitter.com/tedkravitz/status/445183963976728576
https://twitter.com/tedkravitz/status/445183963976728576
- 2,726
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- ECGadget
- Eh???
Surely there must be a reg saying you cannot appeal twice? FIA would have not given a penalty unless it was set intentionally like that. I know that flow meters with control systems can go wrong, it's happened to me before. But they can also be rigged, software wise too in the case of F1.
It is a little telling, considering how surprised Ricciardo was on the podium at the sheer pace of his car all day!
edit: All this excitement, I completely missed my 1000th post.
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- Rektxngle
- iMikeTheKing
Tired Tyres
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
Sucks for DR but the FIA must stomp on this otherwise every team would take liberties.
- 22,551
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- HamiltonMP427
Yeah and so was Kevin, both drivers scoring their first podium so of course they'd be excited but that doesn't hint or prove that he knew his car was feeding more fuel then it should. Nor does he need to know, he controls the mapping units the team sets up as dictated to him by the race engineer. Thus if mixture one in briefing is told to him as max fuel rate that's all he knows or needs to, while the team engineers probably are the wiser
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- race_emhard
Tired Tyres
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Control Unit.
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news/red-bull-faces-disqualification-for-breaking-f1-fuel-rules/
The FIA accused RB of feeding too much fuel through the fuel flow meter.
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2014/3/15579.html
- 2,726
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- ECGadget
- Eh???
I think you misunderstood, I am saying that the drivers clearly could not know =)
Well, in simple terms, each car has a fuel flow meter. This allows a certain amount of fuel to be injected into the cylinders. FIA regs state that the flow must not exceed 100kg/h, but allowances are made for slight deviations due to all the new hardware and software. The Red Bull car however has been found to be consistantly injecting more fuel than what is allowed into the system, which could have been a software glitch not telling them, but obviously the FIA have looked at it and deemed it not to be the case. The only two options that remain is a glitch that could not be controlled (which RBR should have reported), or they have purposefully tweaked something on the sly.
Of course there is a lot more engineering to it, but hopefully that gives you a jist of what is going on!
- 7
- United Kingdom
I couldn't disagree more. If this were an average you would end up with the situation where the teams set their cars up so that they can run at 50% all race then switch into a 150% mode for cheap overtakes or in-out laps to jump people in the pits (and various grades in-between). It would be an absolute farce.
This decision is harsh and really quite unhelpful to the image of F1 to be honest, but it is the right decision none the less.
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For RB to prove their appeal has merit, they have to show that this particular unit was malfunctioning. They do have something to stand on if the unit was indeed replaced right before the race... unless Red Bull themselves installed it wrong.
If this is possible, then the FIA has some problems going into the next race.
If this is possible, then the FIA has some problems going into the next race.
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- Chiyo_Cute
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112965
and someone posted a document link : http://184.106.145.74/f1-championsh... Australian Grand Prix 2014 Document - 56.pdf
and someone posted a document link : http://184.106.145.74/f1-championsh... Australian Grand Prix 2014 Document - 56.pdf
- 22,551
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- HamiltonMP427
- 7
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From reading that it seems like a pretty stupid decision on RBRs part. They were warned and could have turned the engine down to meet the readings they were getting at race control and perhaps finish forth or fifth, but carried on regardless despite knowing that they were in trouble and got completely disqualified.
Also the justification Horner is giving for ignoring the warnings is pretty paper thin:
The rule seems pretty clear to me, whether or not you trust the readouts it gives you still have to abide by the equipment that you are issued and obliged to follow.
Also the justification Horner is giving for ignoring the warnings is pretty paper thin:
The rule seems pretty clear to me, whether or not you trust the readouts it gives you still have to abide by the equipment that you are issued and obliged to follow.
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- 22,551
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- HamiltonMP427
So basically for those of you that don't want to read it I'll paraphrase. "RBR changed a 'faulty' fuel flow device for their own since they couldn't get it working. However, you can't put in your own unregulated device unless the FIA gives permission to do so, and since they didn't car 3 is excluded"
The saddest part reading that is how it is out of the drivers hands/control and yet he faces the biggest downfall of all I'd say. RBR has 4 WCC and WDC through Seb and this guy is trying to start his next steps there and they screwed him over...I guess more of the same for Australian drivers at RBR.
The saddest part reading that is how it is out of the drivers hands/control and yet he faces the biggest downfall of all I'd say. RBR has 4 WCC and WDC through Seb and this guy is trying to start his next steps there and they screwed him over...I guess more of the same for Australian drivers at RBR.
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- F1fan1
The saddest part reading that is how it is out of the drivers hands/control and yet he faces the biggest downfall of all I'd say. RBR has 4 WCC and WDC through Seb and this guy is trying to start his next steps there and they screwed him over...I guess more of the same for Australian drivers at RBR.
Oh come on... Look at where they were in pre season testing. Obviously, they were on the back foot and tried their best to catch up. And look what happened. He had a competitive car. It was an unfortunate oversight. To even suggest that it happened because Red Bull "don't like Australian drivers" is a joke and I expected better from you.
In case you hadn't noticed, their supposedly "favoured son" also had a dismal weekend due to technical issues.
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- HamiltonMP427
That is exactly what it is a joke, I'm not actually being serious about it.
Also I highly doubt it was a slight oversight they warned them it's clear and cut, for Horner to suggest that basically the FIA has a faulty system thus they weren't going to listen to them because their systems were sure fire...which they weren't. Thus RBR and sadly Daniel paid the price, I'd rather see him keep the podium and the team lose the points, but realistically that isn't fair to the other 21 drivers.
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So basically for those of you that don't want to read it I'll paraphrase. "RBR changed a 'faulty' fuel flow device for their own since they couldn't get it working. However, you can't put in your own unregulated device unless the FIA gives permission to do so, and since they didn't car 3 is excluded"
The saddest part reading that is how it is out of the drivers hands/control and yet he faces the biggest downfall of all I'd say. RBR has 4 WCC and WDC through Seb and this guy is trying to start his next steps there and they screwed him over...I guess more of the same for Australian drivers at RBR.
They used two different FIA-spec sensors. The first reported the engine was using too much fuel. They installed another (apparently approved) sensor, but neither the team nor the technical delegate liked the readings, so they reinstalled the first.
But Red Bull didn't think the sensors were accurate, so decided to go ahead and use the "overfueling" maps. Only the FIA can decide when the sensors are innacurate, and the FIA will be the one to determine if an alternate method is required... said method being calculation based on the maps with a correction factor decided by the FIA. Ergo: RBR went rogue, stuck its fingers in its ears and went "Lalalalalalala."
The technical delegate told them to throttle back the fuel so that they wouldn't fall foul of the flow regulations, since the sensor was saying they were overfueling. Red Bull refused to comply Saturday night. "Lalalala... can't hear youuuuu!" The refused to comply on Sunday. "Lalalalalala... man, these ENGINES ARE LOUD! STILL CAN'T LALALALA HEAR YOU!!!"
Shut and closed case. Even if you think it's unfair, you have to follow the rules. RBR didn't.
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- haitch40
- Xbox?
He clipped Kimi due to the same issue. The brake by wire system failed and he completely lost rear brakes.
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- HamiltonMP427
