GT5 Video From TGS!

[Nattefrost]

I still have this sneaking suspicion though that Gran Turismo 5 is further along than we suspect.

I sure hope you're right, the more I look at the 2 fully detailed cars in the trailer, the more I want GT5 here and now. At first I thought like you, that GT4 cars were sufficient. They're already pretty acurate and detailed recreations. But then I went comparing the RX-7 and Lancer Evo from the trailer to GT4 cars. Man, what a difference. Those 2 cars are the finest looking computer generated bodies I've ever seen. The PGR3 - GT5 comparison is just humiliating for the former. PGR3's cars are just simplistic shiny toy cars compared to GT5. GT5 has it all right, the reflections are perfect (not too shiny), everything looks so 3d and has so much depth (the headlights are a good example). I can't imagine driving that in a videogame, it just looks too real.

Now I just want every car in GT5 to be as real as these 2 beauties, no matter how long it takes. Maybe I'm being too much of a graphics-whore, but after seeing the trailer I just can't help it.

 

[Patrik]

Now I just want every car in GT5 to be as real as these 2 beauties, no matter how long it takes.

and maybe they'll look even better at the finish! they would be stupid if they show us this now if its not gonna look this good at the final result...

 

[Coiler]

Yeah Kaz wanted to say " eat this myster x360 " with the rx7 and evo

 

[T5-R]

The car models in GT4 won't do, because you can't do anything with them damage wise. The model itself is a single complete model barring the badges and the doors opening in one or two of them. For PD to model damage like the doors rippping off ect, they need to model the cars differently. Not only that buit wheather the car models in GT4 are good enough isn't relevent since we've already seen two of the models PD are creating, so we already know how much extra detail they are putting into them and they arn't simple 3 day jobs take my word for it.

I'm no expert but as far as I understand it shouldn't be too difficult in 3D Max atleast. You can seperate (i.e. add polygons within polygons easily enough) which would mean splitting the car into parts wouldn't theoretically be too difficult even if the models would need more polygons adding in order to do this (Which they probably would). Equally door seams etc... shouldn't be too hard to do. This is basically what people do converting models to GTA 3/VC/SA from games like NFS 4.

The difficultly I would think would be making these parts completely 3D i.e. modelling the inside of a door etc... and of course making the interiors 3D. Which is probably what you meant. I'd imagine what I mentioned could be as easily done in Maya as it could in 3D Max but of course I've never tried making a 3D model for GT. I don't think it would take too long for one of PD professionals to do this, but to do a proper job the whole model would atleast need a thorough going over if not start again from scratch.

Some people seemed to think all the models have been done for GT5 already, but I very much doubt this is the case as they were saying how long 700 cars would take to make etc... with what 5k poly counts whereas GT5s might use 80k or something (i.e. more work) although in my own experience optimising low polygon models seems more difficult as anyone can just take a handful of polygons and throw them at a detail.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah, it's making all of it upto the required standard in general including the 3d interiors, 3d doors, bonnets, boot lids ect. When you go to thoes extremes of edting an existing model you end up with an almost completely differnt model that you may have well started from scratch, the + side of starting from scratch in this case is that the new models are a lot higher detail that the old ones.

 

[Patrik]

Yeah, it's making all of it upto the required standard in general including the 3d interiors, 3d doors, bonnets, boot lids ect. When you go to thoes extremes of edting an existing model you end up with an almost completely differnt model that you may have well started from scratch, the + side of starting from scratch in this case is that the new models are a lot higher detail that the old ones.

yeah, they have to make new models to get the new level of fantastic detail

 

[niky]

Depends on how they modelled the cars in the first place... if they modelled them fully with separate sections and body parts and THEN reduced the detail to fit the PS2, they could have saved a lot of development time for GT5.

But they said they came up with a way of modelling the cars much faster than before for GT4, which leads me to suspect that most of the modelling is "of-a-piece", which means they'd have to do everything over. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Jedi2016]

The garage/photo mode cars from GT4 are simply too low-poly to be of much use on PS3. Sure, they look fine at 480i, but they won't hold up at 1080p. And you cannot simply "tweak" a model to increase it's poly-count and smoothness.. you have to remodel it from scratch. And believe it or not, it's actually quicker to remodel it than to tweak it.

I agree that GT5 probably won't have as many overall cars as GT4. It'll be like GT3, which had less than half the cars of GT2. I expect it will have somewhere around 250-300 cars.

 

[Operator]

Dunno. 300 cars is pretty much but i'd love 300 "real" cars, not 150 concept and totally useless car.
I really hope that Ferrari and Lambo's gonna be included.. that'd be great.

Btw i think if they want to release GT5 in 2006 they are gonna have "only" around 300 cars, yeah.. but if they release it in 2007, there'll be more than in GT4.

 

[Tenacious D]

First gen games always use a fraction of the power of a system, and will be simplified in some way compared to something done with a year or two of coding experience under a developer's belt. The companies themselves will develop more advanced tools, and the better developers themselves will come up with some of their own.

The RX-7 in the Polyphony video had uneven body panels! Is that a hint of what we'll have in the game? Or is Kaz letting us know that whatever we get will be delivered with the loving care of a work of art done for devoted fans?

The PS3 will be capable of so much, I can't see the limits right now. I'd love to be able to see the uneven body panels in cars in my garage, but I won't mind if they're not there in order to give me a 60 fps scene, a car that feels at least as tangible as the ones in GT4, 20 plus opponents, chopper cam and a world that looks and sounds at least as good as the one in the video.

And I forgot something. With a net-capable PS3, we'll have access to downloadable updates, so I'm not too concerned about what Gran Turismo 5 at release will have or not. Every lack will be temporary. 💡

 

[crimson_menace]

So pretty I had to watch a 2nd time! I really hope that GT5 advances like gt2 did to gt3, that would be awesome. I also really hope that nearly all the dreams of the individualistic modification hopefuls comes true.
(Custom paint, bodykits, etc.)
If that were to happen, I would seriously doubt another racer to be released in that time period would have a chance at videogame existence, other than maybe the bottom of the bargain barrel in a pawn shop. In Cuba.
👍

 

[Arwin]

I personally think that when modelling for GT4 they prepared for GT5 as well. First of all of course the source material they collected, the thousands of pictures and so on, they will still have available. Also, they sampled all the engines, and while on GT4 they had to use synthesized reproductions, on GT5 they will have the memory to base the sounds on actual samples. I also remember that they had long ago already developed a system that emulates cars very realistically, but that they could only implement about 10% of that logic on the PS2. So we'll see.

I suspect the tracks will be more work, but the techniques to model landscapes using laser and such are getting more affordable.

 

[SavageEvil]

I personally think that when modelling for GT4 they prepared for GT5 as well. First of all of course the source material they collected, the thousands of pictures and so on, they will still have available. Also, they sampled all the engines, and while on GT4 they had to use synthesized reproductions, on GT5 they will have the memory to base the sounds on actual samples. I also remember that they had long ago already developed a system that emulates cars very realistically, but that they could only implement about 10% of that logic on the PS2. So we'll see.

I suspect the tracks will be more work, but the techniques to model landscapes using laser and such are getting more affordable.

Finally someone hit the nail on the head, PD did their homework for GT5 while working on GT4. The amount of data they collected for GT4 is going into GT5, data is data and they aren't going to toss out such highly detailed data, which is why they had those models up soo quickly and tossed into GT4's code. That is some rendering engine they have there, those cars look almost real. I don't think the course will be hard to build either, as GT4 course data was exquisite, the Nür is a shining example of this, mainly rebuilding from the data they already have is what they have to do, and adding all the details that they couldn't and then balancing out the graphical detail.

 

[Dave A]

Finally??? Theres been people saying that for ages and in this thread. Arwin's spot on like he is most of the time on GT relatedsubjects, but thats not the first and only mention of this.

 

[Patrik]

Finally someone hit the nail on the head, PD did their homework for GT5 while working on GT4. The amount of data they collected for GT4 is going into GT5, data is data and they aren't going to toss out such highly detailed data, which is why they had those models up soo quickly and tossed into GT4's code. That is some rendering engine they have there, those cars look almost real. I don't think the course will be hard to build either, as GT4 course data was exquisite, the Nür is a shining example of this, mainly rebuilding from the data they already have is what they have to do, and adding all the details that they couldn't and then balancing out the graphical detail.

they will make new stuff!!! why tha hell would they take old cars form gt4 and modify just make them a bit better? this is a whole new generation! do you think they took GT2 stuff into GT3??? not a chans!!!

 

[Dave A]

They arn't re-modeling the old models, but re-using the data collected while making GT4. The actual models will all be new in GT5.

 

[Patrik]

They arn't re-modeling the old models, but re-using the data collected while making GT4. The actual models will all be new in GT5.

yeah, ok. but thats still new models then

 

[Dave A]

Yeah new models, but the data collected that they use to create the models like dimensions, properties, sounds ect will all be from testing over the last two years.

 

[Grand Prix]

*gasps!*

Cockpit View!

 

[Nattefrost]

they will make new stuff!!! why tha hell would they take old cars form gt4 and modify just make them a bit better? this is a whole new generation! do you think they took GT2 stuff into GT3??? not a chans!!!

What live4speed said. And even if they re-use all the data collected in GT4's development, it doesn't mean we won't see new cars. Who knows how many other cars (or tracks for that matter) have already been photographed and tested.

 

[Patrik]

Yeah new models, but the data collected that they use to create the models like dimensions, properties, sounds ect will all be from testing over the last two years.

sounds??? hope they change the engine and the ''sliding tire'' sound though!

EDIT: the engine sounds in the new trailer are great though!

 

[Dave A]

The sounds recorded wern't used properly in GT4, they actually recorded the proper engine sounds with high class equipment, but I'm guessing that because the entire engine sound was played as a single sample that led to the not quite right sounds. The PS3 can handle far, far more sounds at once so you'll be able to play all the seperate sounds from the engine right down toeach cylinder compression and the crank spinning seperately which will lead to a far more convincing overall sound.

 

[BlackZ28]

I wasnt impressed at all, I'm sure it'll get better.. plus, I didnt really look like gameplay.
We have a long, long wait ahead of us, no need to get hyped too soon.

 

[Patrik]

I wasnt impressed at all, I'm sure it'll get better.. plus, I didnt really look like gameplay.
We have a long, long wait ahead of us, no need to get hyped too soon.

I think the gameplay graphics will look like that or better...

 

[Dave A]

The first little bit was gameplay, the RX-7 and Lancer in super high detail was GT5 graphics, the rest was GT4 on PS3 again. Kaz has already said that thoes two cars were how the GT5 models are being done and that thoes two are complete GT5 models.

 

[SavageEvil]

This will probably be the first GT that will be released in a timely fashion. As all the data they have from GT4 will be used, track data, car data(barring any liscencing issues), and sound. PS2 wasn't able to playback the original sounds bytes they recorded for the game, you lots of things get dropped case of processing issues and time constraints. Now with the PS3 hopefully Kaz can go all out on this GT game and give us everything that GT3 and 4 was supposed to. Hopefully they get ferrari, lamborghini and Porsche, i need to see which one can hang with the S7. Only new data should be new courses, and cars not in GT4. I really want to witness the damage engine in action, that should sew up the bulk of the reams time, tweaking it and making it all perfect.

 

[Blackbird.]

Cockpit VIEW!

 

[Patrik]

I really want to witness the damage engine in action, that should sew up the bulk of the reams time, tweaking it and making it all perfect.

yeah, i wanna see the damage to!!! hopefuly we will at next E3!!!

 

[livemusic]

yeah, i wanna see the damage to!!! hopefuly we will at next E3!!!

I don´t think so. Unless GT5 is being released at the same time as PS3, which I also doubt.

 

[Nattefrost]

yeah, i wanna see the damage to!!! hopefuly we will at next E3!!!

Yup, I'm pretty excited too. I've yet to see a really satisfying damage simulation in a videogame, and while I try not to get my hopes up too much, I just wish GT5 will be the first game to give me that. Best (cosmetic) damage I've seen so far is in Flatout. Don't know if you've seen the game. It's pure arcade actually, but the damage looks nice. It's still too limited though.