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Israel - Palestine discussion thread
- Thread starter Beeblebrox237
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Reports that some Israeli airbases were hit.
Yeah, Netanyahu is going to be seeing blood if legitimate targets were hit by Iran. It will also kind of break the spell of Israeli invincibility.
No idea the provenance of this, but if this is an Israeli airbase, it's getting hammered
Yeah, Netanyahu is going to be seeing blood if legitimate targets were hit by Iran. It will also kind of break the spell of Israeli invincibility.
No idea the provenance of this, but if this is an Israeli airbase, it's getting hammered
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- Kannon33r
Whole Israeli AA system works like that - predicting tragetory of missiles and destroying dangerous targets.
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UK forces ‘played their part’ in response to Iran missile attack
Sir Keir Starmer was speaking to Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu when Iran launched its missile attack on Tuesday night
www.independent.co.uk
Why are we in thrall to these religious idiots.
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Because we don't like the other religious idiots.UK forces ‘played their part’ in response to Iran missile attack
Sir Keir Starmer was speaking to Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu when Iran launched its missile attack on Tuesday night
Why are we in thrall to these religious idiots.
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That's not a good enough reason to intervene. It's like the West is under some spell.
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Will the Iranian people finally rise up in a ‘Persian autumn’?
With Israel’s ground invasion of southern Lebanon, the Islamic regime’s invincibility has been shattered – but Benjamin Netanyahu’s video appeal encouraging ordinary Iranians to liberate themselves may fall on deaf ears, says Mark Almond
www.independent.co.uk
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I didn't say that it was.
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Israel is one of Britain's longest running pet projects - they can't give it up.That's not a good enough reason to intervene. It's like the West is under some spell.
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Will the Iranian people finally rise up in a ‘Persian autumn’?
With Israel’s ground invasion of southern Lebanon, the Islamic regime’s invincibility has been shattered – but Benjamin Netanyahu’s video appeal encouraging ordinary Iranians to liberate themselves may fall on deaf ears, says Mark Almond
dylansan
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While Israel claims "this isn't normal" in reference to images of missiles falling on Tel Aviv, it's important to recognize that yesterday and today, Israel has conducted air strikes and artillery shelling on residential homes and tents in Khan Yunis, killing civilians including children, as well as air strikes on Beirut, forcing people to evacuate and set up encampments on the beach as temporary shelter.
I know many people here are generally aware of Israel's actions, but I think it's important to keep track of some of the things happening on a day to day basis, especially when world leaders and news media talk about Iran's attack as if it's unlike anything that's happened so far.
I know many people here are generally aware of Israel's actions, but I think it's important to keep track of some of the things happening on a day to day basis, especially when world leaders and news media talk about Iran's attack as if it's unlike anything that's happened so far.
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There was a segment on LBC radio where they had a very knowledgeable speaker on and the host's final point was sobering. They had spent all that time speaking and there was all this coverage about Iran launching rockets that had 1(?) fatality but overnight there had been over 20 (iirc) deaths in Gaza
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There is something deeply troubling about how Iran can launch 180 ballistic missiles at Israel, kill one person (by accident) and get condemned by the entire west, while Israel is killing hundreds of people a week with just token calls for restraint. I suspect that those missiles were rather precisely aimed not to kill anyone (how else would they not with multiple striking all around Tel Aviv) as a show of force - yes, we really can hit you which Israel is yet again writing off as Iran's attack was ineffective! Whether or not the military / political leadership in Israel (and the US) holds the same position in private is another story.
Anyways, it seems that Iranian leadership is currently terrified of the current mole situation (Khamenei has been deep in some bunker for days now) and I think this is probably the most asymmetrical part of this whole conflict. Whatever you say about the leadership of Israel, the people of Israel are still firmly committed to that government, even if there are reservations or protest against Netanyahu's administration specifically. This is wholly not true in Iran - huge portions of Iranian society hate the form of their government and want it removed. What this means in practice is that Iran is far, far more vulnerable to leaks, infilitration and espionage across all aspects of Iranian society whether that's regular military, IRGC or civilian contractors in a way that Israel's just isn't. In this conflict, I think this is Israel's decisive advantage even if you ignore their superior technology. I'm fairly confident that Netanyahu could take out the Ayatollah if he wished, but that could deprive him of the ongoing conflict that he needs to remain in power - he needs a perpetual boogy man. This is also true of Khamenei and his antagonism of Israel and the West.
So at the end of the day, they're all assholes and I 100% promise you they would figure out reasons to kill each other even if you removed religion from the picture. You can't tell me that Netanyahu or Khamenei are acting on religious principals - they want power, full stop. The middle east right now is like 1910s Europe.
Anyways, it seems that Iranian leadership is currently terrified of the current mole situation (Khamenei has been deep in some bunker for days now) and I think this is probably the most asymmetrical part of this whole conflict. Whatever you say about the leadership of Israel, the people of Israel are still firmly committed to that government, even if there are reservations or protest against Netanyahu's administration specifically. This is wholly not true in Iran - huge portions of Iranian society hate the form of their government and want it removed. What this means in practice is that Iran is far, far more vulnerable to leaks, infilitration and espionage across all aspects of Iranian society whether that's regular military, IRGC or civilian contractors in a way that Israel's just isn't. In this conflict, I think this is Israel's decisive advantage even if you ignore their superior technology. I'm fairly confident that Netanyahu could take out the Ayatollah if he wished, but that could deprive him of the ongoing conflict that he needs to remain in power - he needs a perpetual boogy man. This is also true of Khamenei and his antagonism of Israel and the West.
So at the end of the day, they're all assholes and I 100% promise you they would figure out reasons to kill each other even if you removed religion from the picture. You can't tell me that Netanyahu or Khamenei are acting on religious principals - they want power, full stop. The middle east right now is like 1910s Europe.
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On global scale, no one cares about Israeli or Gazans or Lebanes. Everyone care about Israel nukes Iran or visa versa. Because refugees and economics.
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No. The west cares about Israel because it has a vested interest in that project not failing, regardless of refugees and/or economics and so they will give a long, long leash to Israel but fail to see the perspective of anyone else.
edit: Man with the twin conflicts over there, I bet Egypt really really wishes it could charge a toll for civilian aircraft using their airspace.
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Joey D
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They do. It's called an overflight fee. It's some complicated formula that includes like a base rate, a navigation fee, distance travelled, and takeoff weight of the aircraft.
In the US, we charge $61.75 per 100nm over land or $26.51 per 100nm over the ocean.
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That is why Netanyahu appealed to the Iranian population directly. He wants a revolution, so he addresses them as the "noble Persian people".
From my reading so far, I've concluded it's tribal/nationalist.
Religion is a modifiable factor both at a macro level (i.e. the religions should change/the states should be more secular) and an individual one (that is, people are free to leave/not let it control them as much). If we ignore religion's influence we risk missing the chance of reformation/secularisation equivalent to what happened over the centuries in the West. And then we're stuck at the beginning again where irreconcilable differences lead to tribal mentality, othering, hatred and skirmishes/war.
It doesn't help that they are both religions that are extremely supremacist (although one could argue all are), and so it's kinda like trying to fight white nationalism or something similar.
This is a good read:Eunos_Cosmo
Gulf leaders support Palestine – but many would not mind seeing Israel challenge Iran
The escalating Middle East conflict could create a dangerous vacuum – or an opportunity – for several states
If we want the region to elevate itself out of a tribal mentality we're going to have to look at other successful examples from history or come up with some innovative solutions.
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Tribalism is a part of it - but I'd argue that the tribalism is more isolated to the various Arab groups that have been fighting for territory with each other on the Arabian peninsula since forever. Iran is much different and has been a fairly stable and cohesive society for a few thousand years. The middle east was notably more stable before the 1979 Iranian Revolution. Iran and Israel had normal to good relations before that. I'd argue the instability right now is almost entirely down for a fight for regional hegemony right now between Iran and Israel...both arguably in their current form & alignment due to western interventionism. Israel is the obvious one, but Iran too - I don't think we'd see the militant Iran we have today if not for the CIA-backed 1953 coup d'état that ultimately destabilized Iran and turned it against the west in subsequent political movements. All the blood and money we've spent in the middle east since desert storm (not to mention all the blood spilled in terrorist attacks since then) would very likely not have needed to happen if we had not brought down Mohammad Mosaddegh (who I should remind everyone was a democratically elected Prime Minister and who maintained good relations with Israel) in 1953. Very likely Israel and Iran would have normal relations with each other and with the west and would be the dominant powers in the regions. Very likely Sunni militant groups like Al-Queda, ISIS and others would never have sprung up because Saudi Arabia would not have had the influence that they do - because Iran would be the chief economic center on that side of the region. It was probably the stupidest thing we did in the entire 20th century.
Scaff
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The UK was also stupid enough to help the CIA in that.
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