The '13 driver transfer discussion/speculation thread op updated 16/10

[Wardez]

Yeah, they don't want to let Vergne go, like Thin Lizzy Fan says, he's an excellent benchmark to compare a new F1 driver to within the RBR dev program.

Costa (who I don't too much stake in at all) has to be on Vergne's level, not far behind at all. And if Ricciardo ends up doing as well as Vettel or even a little better then it'll show how fast JEV really is.

It's a great opportunity for them to really compare strengths across the RB F1 establishment as a whole.

Another thing for me is that I don't see Vergne being the type of driver that will disappear from F1 once STR drops him like everyone else. I think he can get swapped up by another team like Force India, or even Lotus depending on how things go after next year.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

Like most people, I'm not surprised. Bit disappointed we won't have a Vettel vs Kimi showdown next year but I'm glad Ricciardo is getting a chance. I've been a fan of him since he turned up in F1. This should now really show what Vettel is worth, hopefully the team give them both equal opportunities. If Australia is the first race next season, would be interesting to see who they give priority to (if they do).

 

[F1 fan]

If there's a situation where they have to prioritize, of course Vettel will be treated as number one. I don't see how this comes as a surprise. He has won three straight drivers championships and in turn, has been mostly responsible (in terms of drivers) for the three constructors championships the team have won. It's looking like he'll win the drivers championship again and the team look like winning the constructors championship again. I know he's not the most popular driver, but I don't understand why people are surprised/annoyed when the team favour Vettel. Any team would do the same.

I am a little disappointed that we won't get to see Kimi in a red bull, but it hasn't worked out that way. On the other hand, it's nice to finally see another red bull young driver make it to rbr. I don't think Vettel vetoed the idea of kimi joining like some seem to imply.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I don't think so. They have a good benchmark in Vergne. Give him another season and see how he does.

Even if he does good next year, there isn't anywhere further to go in RB ladder especially if DR has an amazing first season at RBR.

 

[F1 fan]

The same could be said about any potential toro rosso driver. Vergne serves as a benchmark for another driver while Daniel is compared to Vettel. This way, they get a clear picture of how all the drivers are really performing.

 

[Peasantslayer]

Even if he does good next year, there isn't anywhere further to go in RB ladder especially if DR has an amazing first season at RBR.

Vettel might go to Ferrari in the next couple of seasons as has been speculated in the past, who knows what will happen?

 

[JGreens]

hopefully the team give them both equal opportunities.

April fools was in April, not September!

RB have already decided they don't (can't) give equal opportunity and have resigned themselves to a clear number 2 driver who has already accepted he will not get equal parts, opportunities, involvement in strategy or attempt at the driver's championship for as long as golden blondie boy sits at RB. Yeah he may get the bones of a Newey's golden ticket, but make no mistake, he's already been told he's not to compete against blondie in any form, now, rest of the year, next year or any year he's contracted to RB. A good day for the sport?

But hey, let's not be negative! At least he's guaranteed a great paycheck and some small trophies to put in a cabinet, perhaps he'll get a call from Irvine or Rubens or, most likely, Coulthard

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Vettel might go to Ferrari in the next couple of seasons as has been speculated in the past, who knows what will happen?

I don't really see the reason as to why people still buy into those rumors, those were the same types that were quite sure Kimi would be the other RBR driver. If he does move from RBR it's quite obvious another STR driver will move up or have the most potential to do so obviously. I really wouldn't eat up the Ferrari bs since Vettel has also laid claim to leaving in a few years.

What I'm saying is if things don't change in 2015 driver line up from 2014 between STR and RBR. JEV will be the benchmark obviously at STR.

 

[Ardius]

If Red Bull cared about benchmarks, they would have kept Buemi or Alguersuari. JEV is not safe, even if he has been told he is. Algeursuari was supposedly told he was safe which he claims is why he didn't look for a seat and was left hung out to dry in 2011.

I hope for STR's sake they can keep JEV. But that team doesn't get to make any decisions about its future.

The problem for JEV is that if Red Bull deem him not good enough for a top seat, then why keep him at all? And other teams will think the same thing, sadly. And hence the STR-merry-go-round continues.

Again, I wish Red Bull would sell STR or at least allow them to operate as a competitive team, instead of the donkey to drop their young drivers on. I'm still surprised they even bother to hire people like James Key.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If Red Bull cared about benchmarks, they would have kept Buemi or Alguersuari. JEV is not safe, even if he has been told he is. Algeursuari was supposedly told he was safe which he claims is why he didn't look for a seat and was left hung out to dry in 2011.

I hope for STR's sake they can keep JEV. But that team doesn't get to make any decisions about its future.

The problem for JEV is that if Red Bull deem him not good enough for a top seat, then why keep him at all? And other teams will think the same thing, sadly. And hence the STR-merry-go-round continues.

Again, I wish Red Bull would sell STR or at least allow them to operate as a competitive team, instead of the donkey to drop their young drivers on. I'm still surprised they even bother to hire people like James Key.

I guess I will be agreeing with Ardius for the week since this is the first time ever that I've agreed with him on two consecutive days. Might as well make a week of it.

I forgot about Jamie, this is correct though and some may infer that the only reason JEV will be kept is just in case Daniel doesn't do well. But after next season who know if RBR heads will get rid of the old STR driver for a new batch. I don't fully think this will happen though, I think they went through so many at STR in search of Mark's replacement (since he was on a year by year contract). Now that they have his replacement maybe they'll finally just let STR compete instead of being a GP2 leveled up team in F1.

 

[Peter.]

I don't think so. They have a good benchmark in Vergne. Give him another season and see how he does.

Buemi and Alguersuari were shown the door for much better performances. Vergne hasn't set the world alight in the slightest.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

some may infer that the only reason JEV will be kept is just in case Daniel doesn't do well.

Seems pretty clear from RBR's Ricciardo-must-push-Vettel-by-midseason line that they're not truly convinced Ricciardo is the better prospect compared to Vergne, just the one who's more advanced at this point. If Ricciardo at the end of 2014 is looking like the second coming of Kovalainen, and Vergne steps up his game, then who's to say they wouldn't give Ricciardo the boot?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Seems pretty clear from RBR's Ricciardo-must-push-Vettel-by-midseason line that they're not truly convinced Ricciardo is the better prospect compared to Vergne, just the one who's more advanced at this point. If Ricciardo at the end of 2014 is looking like the second coming of Kovalainen, and Vergne steps up his game, then who's to say they wouldn't give Ricciardo the boot?

Which is basically what I've said, it is obvious Vergne is the back up plan if DR doesn't run as well or better than Webber. If DR does do as good as needed who knows what JEV will be doing come 2015.

 

[SagarisGTB]

If Red Bull cared about benchmarks, they would have kept Buemi or Alguersuari. JEV is not safe, even if he has been told he is. Algeursuari was supposedly told he was safe which he claims is why he didn't look for a seat and was left hung out to dry in 2011.

I hope for STR's sake they can keep JEV. But that team doesn't get to make any decisions about its future.

The problem for JEV is that if Red Bull deem him not good enough for a top seat, then why keep him at all? And other teams will think the same thing, sadly. And hence the STR-merry-go-round continues.

The good thing for JEV is that RB don't have many alternatives to put into those seats. Unless they sign an already established driver, it's just Da Costa they could be plucking from their program and stuffing into an STR, and even his stock has fallen greatly this year. Kvyat isn't ready (his stock has fallen as well), Sainz is talented but his results aren't good enough, Blomqvist and Miss Visser aren't anywhere near f1 prepared. Frankly, there's no one in the program right now that is as promising as Ricciardo, Vergne or Alguersuari were.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The good thing for JEV is that RB don't have many alternatives to put into those seats. Unless they sign an already established driver, it's just Da Costa they could be plucking from their program and stuffing into an STR, and even his stock has fallen greatly this year. Kvyat isn't ready (his stock has fallen as well), Sainz is talented but his results aren't good enough, Blomqvist and Miss Visser aren't anywhere near f1 prepared. Frankly, there's no one in the program right now that is as promising as Ricciardo, Vergne or Alguersuari were.

This is true, I still think Costa will be the next driver unless they plan to take a driver from one of the lower teams that they think can drive. However, since most of them are apart of a young driver program already...I don't see who they'd take.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Perhaps ironically, the two most promising "free agents" (ie not in any young driver program) are Nasr and Frijns, both of whom have turned down Red Bull in the past.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Perhaps ironically, the two most promising "free agents" (ie not in any young driver program) are Nasr and Frijns, both of whom have turned down Red Bull in the past.

Frijins I think would be the best choice, I still don't see what Nasr has to offer. The class of GP2 drivers he is apart of aren't anything to write home about, however the same can be said about the list of pay drivers we got as F1 fans this year.

 

[SagarisGTB]

The 1st and 3rd place finishers from last year's WSR are in Gp2 this year, and Nasr is beating both. The GP2 field is full of experience and good talent (no next Schumachers, but solid talent), and with a lack of track time before Q, the experienced tend to be at the front. Nasr, at 20 and in his 2nd year in Gp2, has done very well to be consistently quick.

Also, there's only 1 or 2 "pay drivers" in F1 at the moment. Many drivers bring money for their seat, it's a consequence of the economic climate, but still the vast majority deserve to be there anyway. Be thankful there's no Mazzacanes in F1 anymore, the minimum standard of driving (in terms of pace, at the very least) is very good these days.

 

[TheBook]

I just thought about this: if DR can't hack it at Red Bull, where would he go? I seriously doubt any other team at the sharp end of the grid would take him if he'd already demonstrated that he can't perform on a level that they would need.

 

[JGreens]

I just thought about this: if DR can't hack it at Red Bull, where would he go? I seriously doubt any other team at the sharp end of the grid would take him if he'd already demonstrated that he can't perform on a level that they would need.

Kovalainen's career path has answered that question.

 

[F1 fan]

Buemi and Alguersuari were shown the door for much better performances.

I am aware of that. However, it was a bad decision. Perhaps they realized the error of their ways.

 

[Ardius]

I also doubt JEV still has any chance to replace Ricciardo - if he wasn't good enough now, why would he be good enough later? It doesn't sound like it was a close call between the two to me, ever since they handed Ricciardo the test at the "Young drivers test" at Silverstone, its been pretty straightforward. Arguably in terms of results Ricciardo has generally been perceived to be ahead as well ever since last year.

Maybe if Red Bull were slightly more hesitant and had waited until the end of the season to decide I'd be inclined to agree that they might consider JEV still if Ricciardo isn't good enough. But currently I don't think it looks that way. If anything, I think JEV will be lucky to keep the STR seat at all.

Really, its summed by the fact the rumours for the past few months were "Ricciardo, Raikkonen or Alonso to Red Bull?" JEV has barely had a foot in.

As for who else would likely join STR? Well, as has been said Da Costa is pretty much a given. After that, Red Bull can pretty get anyone bar Nasr and Frijns..although even they could change their minds. Its not beyond the realms of possibility that they would hire someone outside of their junior programme, as they did with Bourdais (and almost Sato too).

 

[Pilitev]

Frijns confirmed today that he is no longer part of the Sauber Team

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/formula-1-sauber-wont-retain-frijns-2014-181003892.html

 

[SagarisGTB]

I also doubt JEV still has any chance to replace Ricciardo - if he wasn't good enough now, why would he be good enough later? It doesn't sound like it was a close call between the two to me, ever since they handed Ricciardo the test at the "Young drivers test" at Silverstone, its been pretty straightforward. Arguably in terms of results Ricciardo has generally been perceived to be ahead as well ever since last year.

Maybe if Red Bull were slightly more hesitant and had waited until the end of the season to decide I'd be inclined to agree that they might consider JEV still if Ricciardo isn't good enough. But currently I don't think it looks that way. If anything, I think JEV will be lucky to keep the STR seat at all.

Really, its summed by the fact the rumours for the past few months were "Ricciardo, Raikkonen or Alonso to Red Bull?" JEV has barely had a foot in.

As for who else would likely join STR? Well, as has been said Da Costa is pretty much a given. After that, Red Bull can pretty get anyone bar Nasr and Frijns..although even they could change their minds. Its not beyond the realms of possibility that they would hire someone outside of their junior programme, as they did with Bourdais (and almost Sato too).

It's very much possible RB think that Ricciardo is further along in his development, so even if Vergne might have more potential, he was never going to get into the RB seat at this time. And unlike two years ago where RB had two top prospects chomping at the bit to get into F1, perhaps RB can afford to give Vergne more time to mature, and more specifically to improve his qualifying. If JEV can fix his Q performance, he would probably jump ahead of Ricciardo in the eyes of many.

That being said, there's still the possibility for RB to put Sainz into an STR seat, even though I personally think that's a bad idea, or someone else from outside the team, though there's few options really. I think it'll be JEV and AFdC in the team next year, but I wouldn't be surprised if STR went in a different direction.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Alonso wants to stay at Ferrari

So it looks like no funny moves will be done by Alonso, which is what I was pretty sure of.

The 1st and 3rd place finishers from last year's WSR are in Gp2 this year, and Nasr is beating both. The GP2 field is full of experience and good talent (no next Schumachers, but solid talent), and with a lack of track time before Q, the experienced tend to be at the front. Nasr, at 20 and in his 2nd year in Gp2, has done very well to be consistently quick.

I'm well aware of that, but that really isn't impressive considering this isn't Bird's first go around in a GP2 car. Hence the fourth position he holds. Good talent is a subjective phrase I'd say since it is consider one of the more lacking seasons. As for Frijins and even Rossi (he did finish 3rd in 2011) they seem to be close in strength like the WRS careers showed, but they're new and I wouldn't be surprised to see them at the top next year where Nasr is. The cars from WSR to GP2 are quite different and it's obvious you can't jump in and be as fast as established drivers unless your the next Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton.

Also, there's only 1 or 2 "pay drivers" in F1 at the moment. Many drivers bring money for their seat, it's a consequence of the economic climate, but still the vast majority deserve to be there anyway. Be thankful there's no Mazzacanes in F1 anymore, the minimum standard of driving (in terms of pace, at the very least) is very good these days.

I count far more than 2 overall, from the rookies there are three off the top of my head and that is Chilton, Van Der Garde and Gutierrez. Also Mazzacanes was no worse than Diniz who is probably the biggest pay driver of them all in my opinion. Either way they are drivers with far more money than talent.

 

[SagarisGTB]

I'm well aware of that, but that really isn't impressive considering this isn't Bird's first go around in a GP2 car. Hence the fourth position he holds. Good talent is a subjective phrase I'd say since it is consider one of the more lacking seasons. As for Frijins and even Rossi (he did finish 3rd in 2011) they seem to be close in strength like the WRS careers showed, but they're new and I wouldn't be surprised to see them at the top next year where Nasr is. The cars from WSR to GP2 are quite different and it's obvious you can't jump in and be as fast as established drivers unless your the next Vettel, Alonso or Hamilton.

It's not the same as WSR, but Rossi and Frijns have raced in powerful cars before, while Mitch Evans hasn't and is arguably outperforming both in his first year in any big car. The two just aren't performing. Frijns has the revolving-door at Sauber and Hilmer excuse, but Rossi is very experienced in single-seaters now and has experience with the Pirelli tires from GP3 and F1 tests, he should be doing better.

Look, I don't understand why you don't rate Nasr: Nasr beat the guy who leads WSR two years ago as teammates in British F3 and has had a good career in GP2 since. The problems of GP2 (fragile tires, current tire rules, lack of practice time, lottery qualifying, reverse grid sprints, several lunatics scattered through the field) make it hard to stand out, but Nasr has shown several skills (tire preservation, Q speed, patience and ability in overtaking) that are relevant to being good in F1. But you are welcome to your opinion, of course.

I count far more than 2 overall, from the rookies there are three off the top of my head and that is Chilton, Van Der Garde and Gutierrez. Also Mazzacanes was no worse than Diniz who is probably the biggest pay driver of them all in my opinion. Either way they are drivers with far more money than talent.

Gutierrez is a Gp3 champ (over Wickens, Rossi, Coletti, Nico Muller), a race winner in GP2, and finished 2012 in 3rd place in GP2. He was more accomplished coming into F1 than Raikkonen, Sutil or Button for example. I too would wouldn't have promoted him over keeping Kobayashi, but the case that he didn't deserve a chance in F1 is rather hollow. The fact that he brings money is irrelevant when he has impressive enough qualifications.

Chilton and VdG have less of a case, but still both have multiple GP2 wins and have finished top 5 in the GP2 championship, so they're clearly not hopeless mugs. They're both a world away from the likes of Diniz and Mazzacane who NEVER won any races against decent opposition in lower formula. That would more akin to the likes of Canamasas and Sa Silva getting seats, and that's clearly not happening. You try to make it seem as if F1 is populated by many low level pay drivers but that clearly isn't the case, in fact the overall quality is probably the best it's ever been.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

Domenicali doesn't rule out re-hiring Kimi. He spoke to Sky Sports News and when questioned he basically said "Why not?"

Link.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It's not the same as WSR, but Rossi and Frijns have raced in powerful cars before, while Mitch Evans hasn't and is arguably outperforming both in his first year in any big car. The two just aren't performing. Frijns has the revolving-door at Sauber and Hilmer excuse, but Rossi is very experienced in single-seaters now and has experience with the Pirelli tires from GP3 and F1 tests, he should be doing better.

What powerful cars are you talking about exactly, that they raced in prior to GP2? If they actually raced in them wouldn't they have stayed there. Test role and racing are quite different, if that was the case why isn't Sam Bird winning this or why didn't he win in GP3 when he want back to it after being in GP2. Also Rossi driving a few days in separate years doesn't quantify into an abundance that would help him pull a Grosjean.

Look, I don't understand why you don't rate Nasr: Nasr beat the guy who leads WSR two years ago as teammates in British F3 and has had a good career in GP2 since. The problems of GP2 (fragile tires, current tire rules, lack of practice time, lottery qualifying, reverse grid sprints, several lunatics scattered through the field) make it hard to stand out, but Nasr has shown several skills (tire preservation, Q speed, patience and ability in overtaking) that are relevant to being good in F1. But you are welcome to your opinion, of course.

As has been stated by me and others, the driver he is behind has maintained the points lead after having several horrid rounds since Silverstone. For someone you hold in high regard such deficits should have been easy to leap over, right? Well if he makes to F1 then we will see, but I don't see him being more than a average driver for now.

Gutierrez is a Gp3 champ (over Wickens, Rossi, Coletti, Nico Muller), a race winner in GP2, and finished 2012 in 3rd place in GP2. He was more accomplished coming into F1 than Raikkonen, Sutil or Button for example. I too would wouldn't have promoted him over keeping Kobayashi, but the case that he didn't deserve a chance in F1 is rather hollow. The fact that he brings money is irrelevant when he has impressive enough qualifications.

Raikkonen had a good victory rate and two championships in a short span that allowed him into F1 which he then thrived in. I'd say the Sauber of 2001 is not any better and maybe slightly worse than this years compared to the class it races against. Yet Kimi made amazing things happen with less under his belt than Gutierrez. Now I say this because you decided to bring numbers or this "bigger is better" argument when that really isn't reality. Also there are plenty of other things I think that show Estaban wont be a Kimi or even Jenson, perhaps Sutil if given the same length of time. Also it's not irrelevent because he wasn't picked based on talent, that came second and money came first and their is enough documentation to make this argument due to the financial woes and same monetary value (estimated) as Perez had. You also then realize that Hulkenburg and Kobiyashi two non-gathering sponsor types. It becomes more obvious through this year and the build up after November of last year.

Chilton and VdG have less of a case, but still both have multiple GP2 wins and have finished top 5 in the GP2 championship, so they're clearly not hopeless mugs. They're both a world away from the likes of Diniz and Mazzacane who NEVER won any races against decent opposition in lower formula. That would more akin to the likes of Canamasas and Sa Silva getting seats, and that's clearly not happening. You try to make it seem as if F1 is populated by many low level pay drivers but that clearly isn't the case, in fact the overall quality is probably the best it's ever been.

Two wins for Chilton over three seasons and five for VDG over 4 seasons or racing. Though multiple could be used let's not get carried away, compared to the top tier who clearly were faster during their lower tiers and in F1, I don't expect these guys to win anymore then I expect PdR to get a championship. Also I never said Diniz and Mazzacane were any better or worse than the class that you seem to be fond of, don't leap to some conclusion that I never even opened the door for you to have.

Overall quality isn't the best F1 has ever seen. I understand your optimism toward these guys, it's the same I see you tout in GT6 sub forum but you have to have some realism. Jules Bianchi makes Chilton look like a joke, and though it is somewhat to be expected via Ferrari test drives and promo drives this disparity in performance is obvious. VdG is at least trying to fight, but isn't any better to Pic. Either way unless seen otherwise this year or in the future, it's an exercise waste in trying to convince me especially when there is opposing evidence and popular belief that they perpetuate the money over talent debate.

 

[Tom]

Sirotkin is going to do 10-15 days testing in a 2011-spec car to try and obtain his Super License.

http://www.f1today.net/en/news/saubers-sirotkin-to-test-ten-to-fifteen-days-in-2011-car?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

The Kimi to Ferrari rumours are speeding up a lot now.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula-1...errari-want-to-rehire-kimi-raikkonen-for-2014