Anybody out there following the Grand Am?

MrMelancholy15
Nope.

LMP1-expensive
Aston Martin-very welcome
GX-looks fun
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I don't think it's that LMP1 was too expensive, but that at Daytona the cars will be doing 210+ (mph) on the banks, and if they keep GTX (which would be odd to give it up after 1 season...) the speed difference is just too great.

And didn't ALMS only have 3 LMP1 cars at some races? Granted, Audi and the larger companies may cross the pond for the 24hr of Daytona and The Sebring race, there just weren't enough to bring them into the new series. (In my opinion)

If that LMP2 was running a normal road body kit, it would be much quicker than the DP car. (Which is what people were saying on the thread) perhaps they would counteract this with regulating which body kits the lmp2's are allowed to use? (If they don't already)

Maybe it's just me, but I really can't see DP and LMP2 being condensed into one class. It may be better to speed up LMP2 and have DP be the second class. That being said, I doubt they will do that because Grand Am won't want their premier class being turned into the 'second' best class.

Just some early morning thoughts :P
 
polarbear345
Maybe it's just me, but I really can't see DP and LMP2 being condensed into one class. It may be better to speed up LMP2 and have DP be the second class. That being said, I doubt they will do that because Grand Am won't want their premier class being turned into the 'second' best class.
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Assuming DPs are not allowed at Lemans, I imagine that over time more and more DP teams will trade technology with the LMP2 teams and eventually we will end up having an all LMP2 top field with manufacturers/racing organizations like Riley, Ford, and Corvette building prototypes that conform to LMP2 regs without losing brand identity. In other words, it would be a closed top LMP2 car with more distinct brand features.
 
I think DP at Le Mans is more about advertising Grand Am then it is running a competitive race over there. Because of that I think any team that goes will get financial help from Grand-Am organizers. A DP car at Le Mans is like a 24 hour commercial for the series that they're probably willing to pay for. Because entries are already limited I dont expect many to go if they're even allowed. It wouldn't suprise me to see maybe just one or two Ganassi cars go and thats it.

And that brings me to the next point. Has a name been decided for this new series? I think its needed
 
polarbear345
I don't think it's that LMP1 was too expensive, but that at Daytona the cars will be doing 210+ (mph) on the banks, and if they keep GTX (which would be odd to give it up after 1 season...) the speed difference is just too great.

And didn't ALMS only have 3 LMP1 cars at some races? Granted, Audi and the larger companies may cross the pond for the 24hr of Daytona and The Sebring race, there just weren't enough to bring them into the new series. (In my opinion)

If that LMP2 was running a normal road body kit, it would be much quicker than the DP car. (Which is what people were saying on the thread) perhaps they would counteract this with regulating which body kits the lmp2's are allowed to use? (If they don't already)

Maybe it's just me, but I really can't see DP and LMP2 being condensed into one class. It may be better to speed up LMP2 and have DP be the second class. That being said, I doubt they will do that because Grand Am won't want their premier class being turned into the 'second' best class.

Just some early morning thoughts :P
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The DP track record at Daytona is 1.40.00x set by flying lizard in 2011. Last year, the cars were off that pace because of the new cars. Teams weren't familiar with them. I think LMP2 should be combined with DP. It will be a very diverse grid. LMP1 was gotten rid of because only 2 cars competed in every race. LMP2 was the same way. GX needs to merge with Ga-GT and ALMS-GTC. That would cut the number of classes.
 
Justin
They did use FCY's too much, but that wasn't my point.

Le Mans for the last 5 years or so has come down to two teams, Audi and who ever is trying to top them whether it be Peugeot or Toyota. When one of those three have had problems there hasn't been much of a battle for the overall win. Granted when they are running you can get great races like 2011 but that has been a rarity as of late.

Now look at Daytona, in 2012 the Chevrolet powered cars had issues. There was still a battle between the other teams.
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Sorry, I obviously didn't express myself clearly enough, I'll try again. To what extent did the compression of the field by the FCYs at Daytona produce the good battle? Would there have been more than a couple of teams fighting for the win if everyone hadn't kept getting brought up onto the tail of the leaders?
 
MrWednesday
Would there have been more than a couple of teams fighting for the win if everyone hadn't kept getting brought up onto the tail of the leaders?
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Alright, I did some quick research and here is what I found.

There were 761 laps ran in the 2012 24 Hours @ Daytona(2,709.16 Miles). Of those only 64 were under yellow(227.84 miles). That really isn't that much(granted still too much).

The margin of victory was just over 5 seconds with 3 cars on the lead lap and none of them team mates.

Now look at Le Mans, Toyota, Audi's only real competition was out before half-way. Really the only hope was an inter-team battle however you know Audi wouldn't have let them battle too hard. The closest non-Audi was also 11 laps down.

Sadly, that has pretty much been the case with Le Mans for the last 10 years or so, the overall battle has been bland except for a few years.
 
polarbear345
If that LMP2 was running a normal road body kit, it would be much quicker than the DP car. (Which is what people were saying on the thread) perhaps they would counteract this with regulating which body kits the lmp2's are allowed to use? (If they don't already)

Just some early morning thoughts :P
Click to expand...
The speed differential between the DP and LMP2 would be too great and would create quite a mess. The fact that the GT cars where faster down the banks than the P2 car shows you how in redibly faster the car had to be on the infield to pull the same lap times as the DPs. Picture this, the car gets held on the infield wi h it inevitanly will and there goes the race! The DP will be just too fast down the straight for the P2 to catch. Now picture the P2 on a LeMans body kit doing the same speed as the DPs down the banks and still insanely fast on the infield!
My guess is the next gen of DP will go to a carbon monocoque chassis with a bit less power while retaining its unique shape. Perhaps even buying into the SuperGT/DTM chassis deal!
 
Jav
The speed differential between the DP and LMP2 would be too great and would create quite a mess. The fact that the GT cars where faster down the banks than the P2 car shows you how in redibly faster the car had to be on the infield to pull the same lap times as the DPs. Picture this, the car gets held on the infield wi h it inevitanly will and there goes the race! The DP will be just too fast down the straight for the P2 to catch. Now picture the P2 on a LeMans body kit doing the same speed as the DPs down the banks and still insanely fast on the infield!
My guess is the next gen of DP will go to a carbon monocoque chassis with a bit less power while retaining its unique shape. Perhaps even buying into the SuperGT/DTM chassis deal!
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The DP will get carbon brakes. The P2 will no longer have traction control which makes those cars so fast in the infield. That's more than enough of an equalizer with the Le Mans body kit.
 
I just gotta lol at the comments about Grand Am on speedtv.com

Really? They'd rather see a Porsche LMP1 stomp a couple of privateers in the P1 class then 15-20 P2 and DP cars battling for an overall win at the Sebring 12 hours, Daytiona 24, Petit Le Mans, etc? And they say Grand Am doesnt have sportscars. I wonder what their definition of sportscars is?

In all honesty, I wouldnt mind seeing P1 die out. All its done is make competitive cars virtually impossible to build for anyone outside one or two big factories.

I'm all for innovation and whatever, but it needs to be cost restricted to the point where private teams can build somewhat competitive cars that arent consistently 5 seconds + off the pace at Le Mans. If you look at Le Mans 2008, Dome with it's S102 probably had the best aero at the race and best handling, but because they couldn't spend all the money to develop their own engine like Audi and Peugeot and fitted the car with a garden variety Judd V10 they got beat easily.
 
Earth
I just gotta lol at the comments about Grand Am on speedtv.com

Really? They'd rather see a Porsche LMP1 stomp a couple of privateers in the P1 class then 15-20 P2 and DP cars battling for an overall win at the Sebring 12 hours, Daytiona 24, Petit Le Mans, etc? And they say Grand Am doesnt have sportscars. I wonder what their definition of sportscars is?

In all honesty, I wouldnt mind seeing P1 die out. All its done is make competitive cars virtually impossible to build for anyone outside one or two big factories.

I'm all for innovation and whatever, but it needs to be cost restricted to the point where private teams can build somewhat competitive cars that arent consistently 5 seconds + off the pace at Le Mans. If you look at Le Mans 2008, Dome with it's S102 probably had the best aero at the race and best handling, but because they couldn't spend all the money to develop their own engine like Audi and Peugeot and fitted the car with a garden variety Judd V10 they got beat easily.
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I agree. P1 is a car that's limited to people that have blank checks from manufacturers. DP/P2 is cost limited which makes more cars competitive. P2 has taken off in Europe while DP has taken off in America. DP never has been attempted in Europe, and we've seen 2 full time P2 cars race every race in the ALMS. There might not be a single full time entry in P2 next year in the ALMS. The DP is looking at its strongest field in 3 or 4 years. Anyone crying about P1 leaving is crying over 2 cars that aren't usually in the same time zone pace wise.
 
Justin
Sadly, that has pretty much been the case with Le Mans for the last 10 years or so, the overall battle has been bland except for a few years.
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I agree with this. Plan last year was to stay up and watch the whole thing. I lost interest about 3am and passed out. This year might be much of the same, although 2014 might be interesting with Porsche.
 
Earth is completely right, the only way LMP1 is going to survive is by cost capping the class. If you let manufacturers do as they please with the rules they will flat out kill the series trying to outspend each other kicking the privateers out of the sport and then have the accountants come in and a e their motorsports program because of the silly spending. Once that happens bye bye class! And the sport takes a huge hit, then it takes 10 years to recover with the same class under a different name only to have the cycle repeat itself... Seen it happen too many times in many different categories of racing.
When are the sanctioning bodies going to learn??
 
Jav
Earth is completely right, the only way LMP1 is going to survive is by cost capping the class. If you let manufacturers do as they please with the rules they will flat out kill the series trying to outspend each other kicking the privateers out of the sport and then have the accountants come in and a e their motorsports program because of the silly spending. Once that happens bye bye class! And the sport takes a huge hit, then it takes 10 years to recover with the same class under a different name only to have the cycle repeat itself... Seen it happen too many times in many different categories of racing.
When are the sanctioning bodies going to learn??
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Thus Grand-Am came out with the DP class. Last season, 9 DP ran every race. There were 7 different winners. That's pretty good racing if you ask me.
 
cnd01
Thus Grand-Am came out with the DP class. Last season, 9 DP ran every race. There were 7 different winners. That's pretty good racing if you ask me.
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Problem with DP is that it costs more than an LMP2 program and it's slower than a GT-E car. If the next gen cars can manage to be as fast as the LMP2 cars while keeping cost in the same range then they'll have achieved what they've supposed to be doing in the first place.
 
R1600Turbo
Anyone seen this?

http://www.motorsport.com/grandam/p...ford-ecoboost-car-2/?i=41&id=1498900&sz=1&s=2
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The Starworks #8 is beauty. The Weathertech R8 is beautiful. The Sahlen's Mazdas DPs are beautiful as ever. :lol: Nice looking field. Shame about the CTSCC field with those ugly yellow/blue Astons.


Audi Sport Rum Bum R8 = :drool: it's an LMP1 R8, without the ugly LMP1 part. :)

Even the orange Angelelli car is nice.


I can't pick a favourite car. The BTE Autosport DP is so nice, but, so is the Sahlen's car... And... Nope.


Then there's the Aston Martin. :drool: Darn, why must it be so hard?!

APR Audi... :drool: Stop looking so nice!
 
R1600Turbo
Was specifically talking about the Ecoboost engine in the photos I linked to. ;)
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But, the rest of the link was so much more awesome GT-oriented. Not everyone even wants to give DP the time of day. Some of us are specifically here to watch: GT Audi vs. Aston Martin and GX Mazda.


Because some of us only like GT/touring car style racing, and only like nice-looking cars. :lol: And, front-engined is best, to me, as I like a touch of understeer.
 
Jav
Problem with DP is that it costs more than an LMP2 program and it's slower than a GT-E car. If the next gen cars can manage to be as fast as the LMP2 cars while keeping cost in the same range then they'll have achieved what they've supposed to be doing in the first place.
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Peter Baron says that the LMP costs way more per weekend it races compared to his DPs. The actual car may be cheaper, but in terms of operating cost, the DP is way cheaper. It takes 16 guys on his LMP2 team to only 10 on his DP team.
 
cnd01
Peter Baron says that the LMP costs way more per weekend it races compared to his DPs. The actual car may be cheaper, but in terms of operating cost, the DP is way cheaper. It takes 16 guys on his LMP2 team to only 10 on his DP team.
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Wow! That's a lot of people for one car!! I know it still is less than other classes but still a lot of people!!
 
A Mazda!

s1_1.jpg
 
The Camaro? They were runners up in the championship last year, I wouldn't count them out.
 

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