Spa endurance race dec. 16 - Stock European cars

[Jawehawk]

I also was secretly practising my pit entrance . I think if you stop driving without ABS you'll be a lot quicker. Also its not a shame to drive with ABS if you use a controller imo. It's a brave, but not entirely wise decision .

But it's so much more fun to drive without. And it does feel good to win(on the rare occasion) while being at a disadvantage.

And today's practice session has succesfully ended. We have 1 new participant if I'm not mistaken?

The session on thursday will be in wet conditions, so remember your rain coat. We're going swimming!

 

[PaulJ_85]

Aston is definitely the fastest / best car - I managed a 2:37.3 tonight. It understeers a bit, but using trail braking it works fine - also seems ok on tyres, although the fronts start to go. Gearbox is a bit long though, so you often find wanting to be in a different gear out of corners.

8C is definitely quick - I haven't really run properly with it yet. Easy 2:38s - the problem is it seems a bit unstable, e.g eu rouge and when the tyres start to go it burns through the rears a bit quick.

The M3 is noticably down on power compared to the rest, but is probably the most neutral of the three - pushing hard it will still lap 2:38 - but it may be a more consistent lapper ~ 2:40 than the other two. It unfortunately has a similar problem as the aston where the gears feel a bit long / off some times - I'm having to grab another gear just before a corner - which then I have to go back down through.

It is a slightly strange feeling not being able to tune the cars, as I'd usually change the set up to cure these slight problems, e.g. gearing, diff, toe, arb - but I need to decide out of all the stock cars on offer - which I want to drive.

I'd personally choose the DB9 - but andy mac nab politely asked me to run in a different car to level the field. So I may go M3 or see if I can get used to the 8C.

Are we allowed to change the alloys on the car? just because I hate the M3's standard ones

 

[chrisr1984]

Yea you can change alloys just no tuning or aero.

Paul, on Thursday just see which you like in the rain

:-Edited for the grammer & spelling police.

 

[PaulJ_85]

I think I will enjoy the rain. I enjoy the cars sliding about.

Chris I was surprised I was keeping up with your 8C in the M3 till I accidently hit the back of your car and broke the engine lol.

 

[Dave_George]

I apologize if you found my PM offensive in any way. I meant no disrespect, and was simply in a hurry to get some reminders out. As you might have noticed. I've had problems with people forgetting about the events they've signed onto, and thus I have to sent out reminders every now and then.

These past 3 days have all had practice sessions lasting from 2-3.5 hours, and I intend to have 2 more sessions opened in the following week. So far I'm planning to have one up tuesday and thursday, both starting at around 18.30 GMT.

You were in such a rush you have time for 3.5hr practice sessions but not to write a polite email?

My dear fellow you have a lot to learn.

Consider this a cancellation, no harm done but I'm not interested in being approached in such a manner.

 

[Jawehawk]

You were in such a rush you have time for 3.5hr practice sessions but not to write a polite email?

My dear fellow you have a lot to learn.

Consider this a cancellation, no harm done but I'm not interested in being approached in such a manner.

The PM's were sent after a practice session, when I had other things to do. So yes, I was in a hurry. But fair enough. Thanks for notifying me.

 

[TheFreeQ]

I would like to join if registration is still open

TheFreeQ / TheFreeQ

 

[tuner307]

I would like to join as well, however i'm still new to online racing in GT5 (due to some earlier onpleasant experiences in GT5 prologue online, never bothered to pick it up again in GT5). If there is another practice session tonight or tomorrow I could join it from 18:30 GMT onwards

Tuner307/Tuner307 (would love to change that PSN ID if I could)

 

[PaulJ_85]

Tuner - I believe Andy-MacNab will be having another one on Thursday for practice in the rain.

I'll probably be on tonight testing if anyone wants to join me PSN - PaulJ_85

I think in online racing, the thing people appreciate the most is clean racing - especially in enduro. If you're running side by side with another car, give space and assume they may turn in on you, if you're behind someone, be prepared for them to brake earlier than you do and if you think there's going to be an accident ahead, get ready to back off and avoid the carnage.

Me and Chris used to play a game called 'Live For Speed' for years and some of the clean racing in that was great, cars driving side by side in a race, maybe the occasional rubbing but ultimately you had faith the other drivers would allow the space / not do anything which caused an accident.

The problem I find with GT5 is that there is slight lag some of the time (meaning cars running side by side often 'jitter' into one another), also you get people on pad who don't have complete finesse over their control and finally people too often are trying to win the race in the first lap.

The beauty about an enduro is the distance / fact anything can happen. Take the first race yesterday - I was about 7 laps into it and leading by far, but then my tyres just fell off a cliff and within a lap they were burnt. Before I knew it I was 4th.

 

[Zolon32]

Wooohoooo, yeah, can't tell you how pleased I was about Paul's tyres.

Anyway, Andy, with regard to Eau Rouge; am I to take it that where a driver does not allow his offside wheels to stray to the left of the red strip on the brow of the hill on the left hand side of the circuit, then that line is okay?

The reason I ask this is because, when penalties are on (and I'm not arguing for penalties here) allowing your nearside wheels to stray to the left of that line gets you a penalty, however, it is the only corner in all of GT5 where I am aware this occurs. Normally the wheels on the inside of a corner can come right inside, it's the outside wheels that count.

Pehaps because of this anomaly I notice that some people stick to the line which applies when penalties are on and some use a more conventional line, with their nearside wheels inside the red strip. There is a good second's difference between the two.

Additionally, there is an issue with the left hand corner before the final chicane. In a race of any decent length I think that almost all of the participants will run wide on it by mistake at some time, however, again there is an opportunity here to gain time and I wonder how often someone will be allowed to do it before it is decided that he is having a laugh at the other's expense.

Cheers, Z.

 

[Jawehawk]

Wooohoooo, yeah, can't tell you how pleased I was about Paul's tyres.

Anyway, Andy, with regard to Eau Rouge; am I to take it that where a driver does not allow his offside wheels to stray to the left of the red strip on the brow of the hill on the left hand side of the circuit, then that line is okay?

The reason I ask this is because, when penalties are on (and I'm not arguing for penalties here) allowing your nearside wheels to stray to the left of that line gets you a penalty, however, it is the only corner in all of GT5 where I am aware this occurs. Normally the wheels on the inside of a corner can come right inside, it's the outside wheels that count.

Pehaps because of this anomaly I notice that some people stick to the line which applies when penalties are on and some use a more conventional line, with their nearside wheels inside the red strip. There is a good second's difference between the two.

Additionally, there is an issue with the left hand corner before the final chicane. In a race of any decent length I think that almost all of the participants will run wide on it by mistake at some time, however, again there is an opportunity here to gain time and I wonder how often someone will be allowed to do it before it is decided that he is having a laugh at the other's expense.

Cheers, Z.

As long as you have two wheels on the road, you're not off track. This rule apply to the entire track. So having half the car on the red stripe is perfectly fine. There's a lot of problems regarding the last high speed turn. Simple rule is. if you go slightly off track there(meaning one car width), then no worries, as long as it doesn't happen too often. If you go off track by more than the width of the car, you're ALWAYS expected to slow down slightly, and re-enter the track. And of course remember not to re-enter when someone is right behind you. Our first race yesterday showed just how you're not supposed to re-enter the track, with two guys cutting in front of both you and me. However, I strongly believe that the people who did it, knows not to do that again .

 

[Zolon32]

Fair enough.

Z.

 

[ACL_13]

Hi,

will someone open a practice room tonight after 21gmt?

 

[MattieM]

Yesterday's practise session was really good with fast opponents i thought.

I think i made my point here.

 

[Jawehawk]

Think "corner cutting" is the right term for this kind of behaviour. If it happens once due to a mistake, thats ok but lift of for a sec to compensate for it. Which chris did'nt do at all... Same for the race with the M3, also cutting this part 8 out of 10 laps without any form of penalty. I have more pics if you're interested.

Just look at the difference in speed, we both are about the same part of the corner and he's going 20 km/h faster. This way of cornering makes him go about 1 to 1,5 second faster each lap. The rest of the track was within the lines (even that fast corner before the finish were almost every time within the limits 👍, but without penalties 👎). You're a good driver chris, if you stick within the lines it's going to be a fair and interesting race. Why do you cut this corner?

And how do we know that you're not going to this again? i would say turn on the penalties. Other option is to exclude him from participating this race and keep penalties off.

Well, that's interesting. I still have the replay from the first race we had yesterday, so will give that a watch. Thanks for putting this up Mattie. We should keep the following debate to PM's, so we can avoid a flame war.

I will NOT enable penalties though, as I absolutely hate them. The forum does have rules against cheating in official GTP events, so if anyone gets caught(and they will) doing it in the actual event, there will be consequences.

 

[PaulJ_85]

Oh Chris

- hopefully he'll be on here soon to explain himself, but I imagine it was just the fact he wasn't used to that car? Chris and myself were swapping cars every session - so each handled differently through parts.

I occasionally under steered through there, but would learn to adjust next time through (trail brake / lift turn in).

I'll be on in 30 mins to try the tvr out.

 

[chrisr1984]

All I am saying is that its interesting how I have a busted wheel and no pictorial evidence of how I started to enter eau rouge.. if memory serves I think I braked too late and was forced to take this line.. or hit the wall.

I always try to get that corner as clean cut as I can sometimes I make it sometimes I dont, this is 'practise' after all.

I think its pathetic to be honest, you dont see me posting up on here saying others are a cheat because they drove too fast round Blanchimont (final fast lefts of the track) using the tarmac to help them carry that speed.

Iv'e responded to Andy's PM so i will leave it in his hands.

:-Edited for the grammer & spelling police.

 

[MattieM]

Oh Chris

- hopefully he'll be on here soon to explain himself, but I imagine it was just the fact he wasn't used to that car? Chris and myself were swapping cars every session - so each handled differently through parts.

If i find myself outside the track/ideal line, the next time i get there i'll slow down more in order to get to the point/line where i want to be. I didn't saw any form of learning progress throughout the whole race in that corner. Still the same line everytime, not closer to the track or further away. That does'nt look like a learning progress to me. And you weren't lifting off as well, this tells me that you knew perfectly what you were doing.

We drive without penalties because we thrust on each other to drive fair. I get fed up when people don't do that.

 

[chrisr1984]

So how would you explain your excursions off of Blanchimont lap after lap?

:-Edited for the grammer & spelling police.

 

[MattieM]

So how would you explain your excursions off of Blanchimont lap after lap?

I didn't do that every single time. Plus, going of there doesn't have any benefit. It's slippery outside that point and a bit further down you'll land on grass.

Now it starts to look like a flame war .

I removed the pics in my previous post and hope this settles the matter. I think i made my point clear and hope we have a fair and nice race tomorrow and friday.

 

[chrisr1984]

I didn't do that every single time. Now it starts to look like a flame war .

Which you started..

But i think i understand now why 8-10 laps i was cheating.

I have followed the OLR rules from starting here which are:

Standard Clean OLR Rules:

- 2 wheels on (or vertically in line with) the track at all times
- Rumble/ripple strips are part of the track
- No contact with walls or objects, visible or invisible
- If you're not 100% sure that your lap is clean, then consider it dirty
- No hybrids
- No cheating of any kind,these are relaxed races and we are experienced racers, we know what times can be done,and we can read your mind.We will know.
- Nothing that goes against the spirit of the rules
- Save your best lap/ghost replay

Can i bring your attention to points 1 and 2.

 

[Zolon32]

I'm aware that my original entry might have sparked this off and I apologise for that, it was not my intention. However, the entries that have followed have made me consider Andy's answer on the matter of the line throught Eau Rouge and I've realised that I might have misunderstood.

Andy, when you say that half the car should be on the red stripe do you mean the left hand side, i.e. with the offside wheels on the 'track' proper, or is it permissible to take the left hand side of the car to the left of the stripe and have the right hand side of the car on the stripe? I know that this is a pain, but you can see that it is a contentious issue and I want to be clear in my own mind what standard we are all going to be expected to adhere to.

There is, of course, the option to allow people to take whatever line they like through the corners that make up Eau Rouge, thereby levelling the field completely. I'm neither in favour nor against that proposition, just offering it as an option for consideration.

Thanks for your time, now I really must get back to my job at the United Nations.

Z.

 

[Jawehawk]

I've left the question of what is considered off track on Spa, to the admins. I'll get back to you all, when I've recieved a reply. This is starting to be a real annoyance . Spending my entire evening on this bull!

IMO. Off track means having more than 2 wheels off the asphalt. This is just pure logic to me. The curbs(the red/white stripes) are there to help you through the turns. They are NOT there to be run over by the complete width of the car.

 

[MattieM]

I didn't do that every single time. Plus, going of there doesn't have any benefit. It's slippery outside that point and a bit further down you'll land on grass.

Now it starts to look like a flame war .

I removed the pics in my previous post and hope this settles the matter. I think i made my point clear and hope we have a fair and nice race tomorrow and friday.

I've edited my previous post, but it's on the previous page.

Edit:

IMO. Off track means having more than 2 wheels off the asphalt. This is just pure logic to me. The curbs(the red/white stripes) are there to help you through the turns. They are NOT there to be run over by the complete width of the car.

I agree, only the outside tyres are allowed on the curbs and not over it.

 

[tuner307]

Nice racing just now, PaulJ_85 and GTP_ChrisR1984 seem to be quite evenly matched. The extra speed from the slipstream caught me a little off guard in the last race but up till then I could just about keep up with you Paul. Still need some experience in the wet though.

P.S. anyone got some tips on the headphones?

 

[chrisr1984]

I use

http://www.google.co.uk/products/ca...X&ei=3arpTpXBDMrD8QOD35n5CQ&ved=0CJ4BEPICMAM#

Works fine but is sometimes a bit quiet I can hardly hear what people are saying sometimes.

 

[Jamie-C]

Are you stupid? That's what practice is all about. I'm sure he isn't taking that line deliberately, some people struggle on certain corners and its obviously taking him a while to ace it, your whining as if its the race, its ****ing practice!

 

[ACL_13]

I consider myself an avarage racer, good on TT, i guess i have no great racing experience mostly due to unfair races/cheating and ramming...

I can understand that sometimes for those like me it is difficult to keep the racing line, specially when you don't know the track well! In my case at SPA no DLC, in my opinion penalties should be on! This is your choice.

I will use the BMW M3 for the race!👍 very stable...

 

[TheFreeQ]

Sadly, i won't make it to todays practice session. I had to take this day at work, so race day will be totally free for me. If its not a problem, i can undergo observation at some private practice session or something. Being a part of this race is very important to me, so don't flush me down the toilet because of this ;D

 

[Jawehawk]

Are you stupid? That's what practice is all about. I'm sure he isn't taking that line deliberately, some people struggle on certain corners and its obviously taking him a while to ace it, your whining as if its the race, its ****ing practice!

First off. I'm going to tell you to remove the pic. And that's not a request, but an order. I do these practice sessions for two reasons. The first is for practice. And the second and most important resaon, is to make sure that the participants are driving clean and fair. It's not ok to cut a turn several times. Chris knows this, and by my knowledge, he was only doing it because he thought it was part of the track.

Edit:
I'm going to quote the reply I got from an admin.

"The OLR rules were developed for the WRS on this forum. Because they are sensible and fair, they have been more widely adopted by people on this forum for other series.

However people unfamiliar with the WRS or indeed this forum are unlikely to observe them. In other words, we don't make the rules for GT5. We make the rules for the WRS and people extend the OLR developed for that to their own series on their own accord."

In other words, the OLR does not fully apply to spot races. It's still mostly a good source of clean driving though. Let me be clear on the rules here.
In my events, you're off track as soon as you have less than two wheels on the actual road. The curbs are NOT there to drive across. If you by accident cut across, then slow down.

btw. All the remaining sessions will be actual rooms, instead of the private lounge.